PDA

View Full Version : Daemon Princes - Usable or not?



Delusionist
14-05-2008, 15:26
I'm currently tying to move back to fantasy after 4-5 years of 40k (including a break of about 1,5 years) and I decided to go for daemons (pure Slaanesh).

So I was thinking about working modifications for Daemon Princes (not just slaanesh). Not too sure how well they really fit the fluff, but still I think they are a cool option.

I have a couple of versions in mind, but I'm not sure how well they work since I've been out of the game for so long.

I was thinking about using Immortal Fury, Soul Hunger and Winged Horror for some fast support (the two first could be swapped for Etherblade) or then Many Armed Monstrosity and Torment Blade (in case you get the extra attack from the blade) (+wings if needed). These both require Slaanesh Princes, but I'm sure someone can come up with some working ones for other gods.

I do know that Princes are regarded as weak in comparison with Greater Daemons, but someone has to come up with at least one working version.

I know this has been debated in other topics, but I couldn't find one dedicated to Princes (except for one that was 6 months old)

Gralph!?!
14-05-2008, 17:31
hmmmm....mark of nurgle, winged horror, the strength 4 breath weapon ought to be a laugh as it will give some much needed softening up to enemy units. the flight is needed since it will need to stay out of trouble alot of the time.

for khorne i would simply go for many armed monstrousity and fire storm blade as it would cause alot of damage to units and the fly is not neccessary since it does have movement 8.

slaanesh can be figured out by anyone. with tzeentch then taking spell destroyer is a good way to have a cheaper character with some good anti magic and fairly hard in combat on the cheap.

Lord Aries
14-05-2008, 17:37
No.... just not good.

minionboy
14-05-2008, 17:41
I'm not sure if I like princes. If I'm going to spend lots of points on a Lord, I'm going to go with a Greater Daemon all the way. You can set them up with gimmicks like Gralph talks about, but I don't think they fill any specific role all that well.

MoN, Iridescent Corona and Pestilent Mucus, becomes something kinda silly against small base armies. Everything in base contact takes a Str 3 hit and if they wound your prince, everything in base contact again takes a toughness test, or takes a wound.

Ris
14-05-2008, 18:07
Personally, I wouldnt see myself ever taking one with the sole exception if it ever occurs that I want to use the belakor model.

Just in my eyes im better off spending the extra points for what a greater daemon/special character gives me, or if I wanted to save points id just go with a herald and have points spare to give him a unit.

So i guess basically in my eyes...they kind of fill the middle ground that I have no interest in

mav1971
14-05-2008, 18:15
I think every unit is usable. Some are just better than others. You could do what I'm probably going to do. Try a few different combinations and see what works. Whats the worst that could happen? You lose a game of warhammer.

Ris
14-05-2008, 18:21
rather, spend good money on something you will never use again :p

siphon101
14-05-2008, 18:32
rather, spend good money on something you will never use again :p

That's what you get for building armies around flavor of the month :p

I've been a vampire counts player since it was "undead" and a demons player since all chaos came in a giant box and demons had animosity. I've got demon prince models to spare

The last few months have been good to me from GW

isidril93
14-05-2008, 18:37
it is an amazing model to paint wouldnt it

and a daemon prince with fly, many armed monstrocity and fire magic (and if you are lucky sword of rhuin) is quite a good fighter

if you do cast flaming sword of rhuin then you get a killer with 8s, 8A and hits on a 2+

what grter daemopn can stand against that if it charges(besides KOS cos that strikes first)

Firebreather
14-05-2008, 18:41
While I'm still a very new Daemonic overlord, I agree with what seems to be the common sentiment when it comes to Daemon Princes, that being that they aren't that great. If you want to spend a pile of points in a powerful general, you have the Greater Daemons. If you want to skimp on points used for characters, Heralds are the ticket. Daemon Princes are somewhere in between the two in terms of power, but much closer to Greater Daemons in terms of points. Their potential uses and in-game power is also somewhat questionable, especially given just how much they're going to cost you when all is said and done.

For these reasons alone, I can't see myself using one at this point. I'm pretty sold on the idea of Greater Daemons now for a good many reasons, thanks in part to the new army book. Heralds too. I just can't seem to come up with a reason or desire to field a Daemon Prince.

That said, I don't think they're useless or bad enough to never be used, not by a long shot. Despite the fact that they're inefficient and kind of lacking in comparison to the Daemons' other character choices(imho, of course), they're still a big Daemonic monster, and definately capable of causing some horror on the tabletop.

The original poster mentioned something about working versions of Daemon Prince builds, and I'm sure there are some that perform nicely. I guess I can't really go into that further, as I haven't set down and tried to make any myself yet. I have seen a few builds posted here and elsewhere that looked promising.

Actually, now that I think about it I might have a go at making a few Daemon Prince builds of my own, proxy them, and test them out. I'll be sure to let the community know how it goes.

In the end, I think it would be hard for anyone to definitively say that Daemon Princes are completely worthless. I think most of the DP's bad press comes from comparing them to their peers in the army book, both of which happen to be excellent. Forgetting about them in relation to GDs and Heralds might yield slightly more positive impressions.

Znail
14-05-2008, 19:41
There are several problems with the DP's. One is that the base cost is a bit high so if you kit them out so do you end up with a similar cost as a GD, but without the extra stats of a GD. Another problem is that the DP is a monster so cant join units like a Herald while its also doesnt cause Terror like a GD.

As for cool combos so would the best one I can think of be getting Many Armed Monstrosity, dedicate to Tzeentch, get Master of Sorcery and you got your Flaming Sword of Rhuin spell automaticly.

Nagash333
14-05-2008, 20:14
They are certainly not the most attractive choice points wise but I plan to buy and use one (Be'lakor model the best GW has ever produced!). Sometimes Warhammer isn't just about creating the most competetive list. If you like the model/fluff etc. go for it.

I plan to run it with: Winged Horror, Immortal Fury, Soul Hunger and as a lvl 2 wizard using Fire magic (big fan of direct damage spells). Comes in at 455pts.

Firebreather
14-05-2008, 20:32
Good call, Nagash333, I love that sort of attitude. I also happen to agree with you in that Be'lakor is one of the best models GW has ever put out, and it would be a shame to never have the pleasure of putting him down on the tabletop at some point.

Chances are I'll eventually say hell with it, get the Be'lakor model, add an extra set of arms(among other conversions...), and hope for the best.

Lord Inquisitor
14-05-2008, 20:47
I'm really missing the Exalted Daemons. The Greater Daemons are always going to be the most attractive Lord choices, but having a Daemon Princeling that could fly and cause terror was lots of fun.

Tactically speaking, it's a cheap Lord choice. Level 1 wizard, wings and Immortal Hatred comes to 395. That's at least a few hundred less than the Greater Daemons.

But the double-whammy of no longer causing Terror and not being able to join units really puts the hurt on these guys.

Gralph!?!
14-05-2008, 22:12
agreed.

if the daemon prince had terror built in then it would be a lot more of an attqractive choice for me. i will still use one since i do already have a nice belakor conversion done and i would like to use it. i may have to use it in the way that has been said above of the mark of tzeentch and the flaming sowrd of ruin. that is impressivly nasty.

although i think fly and ether blade will be more effective. the magic defense and offensi=e will come from te tzeentch horrors and herald anyway so a 375pt lord who is still alot harder than a herald, can get behind enemy units easily and more importantly HIDE is a big bonus to me. its all wel and good taking a scary bloodthirster with tonnes of attacks when it cannot hide the enemy gets first turn and it gets 3 bolt throwers to the face killing it. being able to hide is much more important than being big and scary.

Firebreather
14-05-2008, 22:32
Gralph!?!, what you just mentioned is actually why I'm having a bit of trouble fitting a Daemon Prince in at the moment. You mentioned your magic offense and defense will come from your Tzeentch Herald and some Horrors, in which case having the Daemon Prince(and his lack of powerful magical ability) wouldn't be much of an issue. Giving it some thought, that's not at all a bad idea, and the Daemon Prince could actually do quite well, and save you a few points over a GD. Nice.

My trouble at the moment is my complete lack of Horrors, and therefore the lack of a large battery(or batteries if you've got lots of 'em!) of magic and anti-magic without having a GD or a good few Heralds with magic levels.

Hmm....oh well, at least now I know what piece of the Daemon Prince puzzle I'm missing. I really should get a few dozen Horrors anyway, shouldn't I?;)

baphomael
14-05-2008, 22:39
I'll be using a Daemon Prince for fluff reasons - having an 'undivided' daemon army, the idea is that all the heralds in the list have, variously, made pacts with the daemon prince and he's calling in some favours, I preffer the idea of a 'neutral' character binding all the god-specific daemons together.

Firebreather
14-05-2008, 22:43
That's definately a good way to deal with the old "gods are enemies and don't fight together" bias, baphomael. Like you said, a neutral party calling the shots and bringing all these previously very divided Daemons together under his banner is a really cool idea, and would also make the change easier for some to swallow....in terms of the background making sense anyway. I like it!

StormCrow
15-05-2008, 01:13
In the new daemon book my favourite lord choice is Kairos, everything i wanted my daemonic overlord to be...but that's beside the point.

In an army that can throw out some damage in the magic phase (mine has 12 power dice) i give my daemon prince the mark of nurgle and make him a level 1-2, that first spell is horrendous! combined with immortal fury and many armed monstrosity if you can get that spell off your enemies will be in a world of hurt. Rancid visitation can also come in handy against zombies and elves!

lokigod
15-05-2008, 01:28
hmm I have 4 diffrent daemon prince but will use them all for 40k..... Also so far my herald only list has killed 2 GUO and a thirster lead list :) skulltaker is a beast !

Dead Man Walking
15-05-2008, 03:54
I would only field one to get the utility of a flying nurgle character with str 4 breath weapon. That is only if I didnt have enough points for a GUO.