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TheDudeGuyMan
14-05-2008, 22:28
Hey, so I was wondering, in the Orc codex, it says that the heroes can ride a chariot displacing one of the crew. Do these chariots you take use up one of your special slots?

Nurgling Chieftain
14-05-2008, 23:39
It doesn't say you do (unlike the older Codicies) so therefore you don't.

TheDudeGuyMan
15-05-2008, 00:26
Hmm that's what I was thinking. Do you think that that was intentional? Or a big mistake?

alextroy
15-05-2008, 04:03
It was intentional, since they removed the wording that was in the old book.

xragg
15-05-2008, 14:09
Every goblin shaman should ride in a chariot, waste if they dont.

T10
15-05-2008, 14:16
With one hand they removed the opportunity of fielding 8 Goblin chariots as special choices in a 2000 points army, and with the other they gave us the opportunity of fielding 8 chariots as special and character choices.

Hm.

I am considering if maybe an 8 Orc chariot army is feasible...

-T10

Mike KK
15-05-2008, 22:55
ork chariot army...that would be awesome

Braad
16-05-2008, 06:47
In my last game (already a while age :() I charged a unit of saurus warriors with a big boss in chariot and a second chariot. I nearly annihilated the unit. That's the good thing.

The bad thing was when they were nagged by a couple of terradon riders. Really had some troubles there.

Also, I think a chariot army might have troubles against any army with cannons...
But cool nonetheless.

And, maybe they removed the 1-2 for 1 special BECAUSE they wanted to include the chariots as a true mount instead of another special choice.

kroq'gar
16-05-2008, 07:29
It takes a special slot as in order for him to displace a crew member there has to be a crew member to displace (which requires your army to have a chariot).

However, under this rule there is room to make a buggy of doom, by replacing all three crew with black orc characters.

T10
16-05-2008, 08:57
It takes a special slot as in order for him to displace a crew member there has to be a crew member to displace (which requires your army to have a chariot).

However, under this rule there is room to make a buggy of doom, by replacing all three crew with black orc characters.

Wether you can fit multiple characters into the same chariot is a fairly novel idea.

However, it does not really apply to the Orcs & Goblins characters. These characters take their chariots as a character upgrade (like a mount), and thus get one chariot each.

-T10

Tarax
17-05-2008, 14:12
Wether you can fit multiple characters into the same chariot is a fairly novel idea.

However, it does not really apply to the Orcs & Goblins characters. These characters take their chariots as a character upgrade (like a mount), and thus get one chariot each.

-T10

Did you also have the image of the four horsemen of the Apocalyps in mind, all riding one horse? ;)

Clegane
17-05-2008, 14:26
It takes a special slot as in order for him to displace a crew member there has to be a crew member to displace (which requires your army to have a chariot).

However, under this rule there is room to make a buggy of doom, by replacing all three crew with black orc characters.


I'm fairly certain that you're incorrect on the first point here. The rule only mentions 'displacing one of the crew' so that people don't try and say that their non-special 'mount' upgrade also gets a free full chariot crew as well as the character.

Interesting point however: If the character riding in a chariot is killed, he is immediately replaced by a crew member and the chariot itself continues to operate, as the character and the chariot are treated as two separate units. At least...that's how Tomb Kings characters in chariots work. I assume the same would apply here.

kroq'gar
20-05-2008, 14:26
To displace a cremember, there has to be one to displace. The rules for an assassin say he displaces a member of the regiment. Does he get a free regiment, or an elit regiment as part of the character slot?

Andrew Luke
20-05-2008, 14:36
I bought the chariot as a mount for my character. Chariots have three crew, so I replace one. Done as per RAW. Chariot naysayers get over it :D

xragg
20-05-2008, 15:21
To displace a cremember, there has to be one to displace. The rules for an assassin say he displaces a member of the regiment. Does he get a free regiment, or an elit regiment as part of the character slot?

Does it also state the point cost for the unit the assassin is joining under his options? No. You buy the unit from the army section. If the chariot was meant to take up a special slot, it would only state that the character can ride in a chariot by displacing a crewman. It would not require you to purchase the chariot under the characters options. Read how it is written in the Dark Elf character options and you will see the difference.

Gimp
20-05-2008, 15:27
ork chariot army...that would be awesome

And if the characters are Black Orcs then they automaticly Waaagh :angel:

shartmatau
20-05-2008, 15:29
or read the old O&G armybook.

Menset
20-05-2008, 17:49
Interesting point however: If the character riding in a chariot is killed, he is immediately replaced by a crew member and the chariot itself continues to operate, as the character and the chariot are treated as two separate units. At least...that's how Tomb Kings characters in chariots work. I assume the same would apply here.

Could I ask where this is stated? Being a TK player I normally take the Chariot off with the Character.

Braad
20-05-2008, 18:08
I don't have anything at hand to check, but as far as I know, a chariot is a multiwound mount, like a dragon, so the character and the chariot loose their own wounds, and one dying would not mean the other dies too.

If I'm right, there is a rule that the character actually looses a wound when the chariot is destroyed. If they die at the same moment, this would be quite silly, right?

Anyway, about the taking chariot as a mount or special slot. In the O&G armybook the wording has intentionally been changed from something like "can ride a chariot that has been bought from the special section by displacing a crewmember" to "can ride a chariot for 80 pts and displaces one of the normal crew".

If anyone still doubts this, please check the O&G FAQ. It specifically says that this is not a chariot bought as a special choice, and therefore does not allow any options to be bought for them like extra crew.

Nurgling Chieftain
20-05-2008, 21:42
...So the chariot takes a monster reaction test? :p

Chicago Slim
20-05-2008, 21:46
Kroq'Gar, you're simply wrong. As Braad notes, it's very explicit in the FAQ: Characters ride in chariots that they purchase as mounts (in the army list, under most but not all of the character listings, one of the mounts available is some sort of chariot).

The reference to "replacing a crewman" is used in order to allow the rules to state that the chariot (mount) is otherwise identical to the chariot (special unit).

If the character is killed, the Chariot continues on (like a monstrous mount would), but with only one crewman (since there was only one crewman, plus the character, when you put it on the table...) As Braad says above, you cannot buy the optional third crewman (again, explicit in the FAQ)

And, because the FAQ also says that chariot mounts are "...treated exactly like a monstrous Mount..." it's also true that Black Orc characters on such chariots will count as rolling a 6 when the General calls the Waagh (as will the General himself).

I recently played a 7-chariot army at Adepticon (an independent tourney in Chicago that's supported by GW), including a Shaman Lord and three Black Orc Big Bosses, all on Chariots (for that US5 flank support). It did okay-- not great, but not horribly, either.

Chicago Slim
20-05-2008, 21:50
...So the chariot takes a monster reaction test? :p

A bit naff, innit? It takes a bit of squinting at the rules, either way, once you raise that point. My argument is that the chariot stops being a mount as soon as the character is dead, and so now it's just a regular chariot (not a monster), and acts like any other chariot (albeit down a crewman).

Yeah, like I say, it's sort of having my cake and eating it too-- the FAQ says that it's "treated exactly like a monstrous mount", and if my opponent really wants to force a bound monster test, I'll submit to it, though I won't be particularly impressed him, personally.

kroq'gar
21-05-2008, 03:46
Well then, i stand corrected. However, monster reaction tests make sense in this ruling (its not hard to imagine the crewman panicing at the heros death and loosing control of the steeds).

Damnit... i really wanted to try out 3 blackorcs in a chariot. Shoulda done it prior to the FAQ.

Clegane
21-05-2008, 05:45
Could I ask where this is stated? Being a TK player I normally take the Chariot off with the Character.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470835_Tomb_Kings_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf

Its in the official Tomb Kings FAQ. The question specifically pertains to whether or not you can use an Incantation of Summoning to resurrect a chariot if it is killed but the Character is still alive. The FAQ says that you cannot do so, as they are treated as two separate units. The obvious intent here is that the Chariot continues functioning on its own when the character is killed. If you automatically removed the chariot upon the death of the character, there'd be no reason for the question itself or the answer that was given. Further, since the crew cannot be picked out of a normal chariot, and since the character chariot upgrade costs 45 points (and a normal chariot costs 40), it would also be fairly clear that the two normal crewmen replace the dead character.

Like I said, however, this is easily explained because of how tomb kings and their magic work. I'm not certain how the rules would interplay with other races and their own character-ridden chariots.

Here's the actual Q/A:
Q:Can you resurrect a Tomb King's chariot if it has been destroyed but he is still alive?
A:No. The TK and his chariot are treated separately. You also cannot resurrect the Tomb King if the Chariot is still alive.

Chaos Mortal
21-05-2008, 10:43
i once played a 1k game with 6 O+G chariots lol! also a savage orc big boss, bigged kickin boots, porkos pigstikka on a chariot and extra crewman is awsome (may not be right points but its somthing like that) and fully capable of breaking ranked units at the front, gotta love frenzied boars aswell =)

vilo
21-05-2008, 10:56
A bit naff, innit? It takes a bit of squinting at the rules, either way, once you raise that point. My argument is that the chariot stops being a mount as soon as the character is dead, and so now it's just a regular chariot (not a monster), and acts like any other chariot (albeit down a crewman).

Yeah, like I say, it's sort of having my cake and eating it too-- the FAQ says that it's "treated exactly like a monstrous mount", and if my opponent really wants to force a bound monster test, I'll submit to it, though I won't be particularly impressed him, personally.

If it acts like a monstrous mount does that mean it can now make a march move???

Chaos Mortal
21-05-2008, 12:46
its still a chariot so i would assume not at least that how ive played it

The Red Scourge
21-05-2008, 12:53
If I'm right, there is a rule that the character actually looses a wound when the chariot is destroyed. If they die at the same moment, this would be quite silly, right?

There isn't. There used to be, but for now there isn't.

Braad
21-05-2008, 13:56
There isn't. There used to be, but for now there isn't.

Really? Well, indeed, there used to be.
Can't anyone check what rules for characters in chariot in the BRB are?

Anyway, the TK FAQ clears up that part anyway, they are treated seperately.

@ Vilo, I was just thinking the same thing :P
And if they are treated exactly as monstrous mounts, they don't get killed by 1 S7 wound too?
Anyway, I think all this would be just silly. It's just a chariot, following chariot rules. If the character dies its a chariot with one crewmember. Since the rest of the crew is not a monster, I don't see why a monster reaction would be necessary.
I think what they wanted to say with "treat like a monstrous mount" refers to the part of how to pick it from the armylist, since that was what the question in the FAQ was about.

If I ask "do I have to eat penguins", and someone says "yes", this also doesn't mean I have to eat horses, because the answer "yes" can apply here too but it simply isn't related to the question asked.
The question was about how to take them from the armylist, not how to treat them in battle, so the answer is about taking them, not about using them.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
21-05-2008, 14:49
On the topic of chariots and characters How do characters increase the unit strength of a chariot when they displace one of the crew?

Braad
21-05-2008, 17:49
Its weird if you consider, but its still happening. Also, taking out the crewmember does not for example reduce the chariot a wound.
On the other hand, adding extra pulling beasts or extra crewmembers do not add to the US (otherwise everyone would do so, to negate rank bonuses).

But its because the chariot and character are treated as seperate pieces of one model. Same as that a warboss on wyvern has a US equal to the wounds of the wyvern +1 for the boss.
The US of a chariot is and remains 4 no matter what, and the boss has 1. Adding together to 5.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
21-05-2008, 20:56
OOh thanks:)

Chicago Slim
21-05-2008, 21:16
DPoC, all I can tell you is, "Cos that's what it says in the rulebook." Sorry.

Others, I'm glad you've noticed the follow-up I'm prepared to roll out, if my opponent insists on a Bound Monster test (because, if I bring one character chariot in my OG army, I'm probably bringing four of them; if my opponent wants to insist on the bound monster test, then I'll happily start marching the remaining chariots next turn...)

Braad
22-05-2008, 07:20
And don't forget they can't be instant-killed with S7.

kroq'gar
26-05-2008, 03:57
As per the Empire FAQ-

When Archlector dies, war alter remains on the table as per a normal chariot.

However... in the empire rules it state an archlector 'may ride the war alter'. Now, whilst the FAQ rules out two war alters, how about two arclectors riding the same alter, or an archlector riding with volkmar.

Nurgling Chieftain
26-05-2008, 07:56
When Archlector dies, war alter remains on the table as per a normal chariot....Albeit leadership 5, since the horses are now in control. :D