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View Full Version : Bloody GW, charging for money for rules



magnificent*
21-04-2005, 13:54
A codex should contain fluff and painting guides and nothing else. Rules should absolutely free because then you could have an intact and complete codex for each codex on line. This nonsense of releasing a codex and then new rules that state they override the codex then a FAQ that trumps causes a lot of confusion. It is great they keep evolving the game and it is good for them but there should be less confusion about the rules. Each codex should be downloadable with sample battles to show you exactly what worked. To work out what an ork FAQ meant I had to check the rules and the space marines codex.
****blood boils, collapses on floor****

mattjgilbert
21-04-2005, 13:58
Yes they could make it easier but consider this: How many thousands of us play the game, live with it and continue to give them money? They can pretty much manage it how they please and we still keep playing and paying :)

But yes, it would be nice to have a single place to look things up.

sigur
21-04-2005, 14:01
That would keep even more people away from caring about fluff and painting.

I don't really understand how people can get confused so easily because the rules are quite clear since about 3-4 years.

mattjgilbert
21-04-2005, 14:28
I don't really understand how people can get confused so easily because the rules are quite clear since about 3-4 years.
But just look at how many people post rules questions both here and in other forums. That must say something at least.

sigur
21-04-2005, 14:34
But just look at how many people post rules questions both here and in other forums. That must say something at least.

Yeah, it does, but I don't wanna comment on that now....:p

Just kidding.
Saleswise, it just wouldn't be smart to sell "fluff-and-painting-books" only. The combination of rules, fluff (at least a bit) and painting (at least a bit) isn't too bad since I don't want the rules being parted from the rest of the hobby (painting, converting, fluff).

hairyman
21-04-2005, 14:49
However, if they published big thick chunky rpg style sourcebooks in addition to the existing codex/rules stuff, they could devote them purely to fluff & painting and really go to town. So your codex has the rules and the basic background it gives you already (you know, species X is the best army to play cos... species X lives in the Blah Blah sector of the galaxy); your sourcebook is a 100+ pages of, for example, chapter history or eldar legends and artwork... whatever.

Drabant
21-04-2005, 15:40
I don't really understand how people can get confused so easily because the rules are quite clear since about 3-4 years.

What game are you talking about? Chess?

There are still a lot of unanswered questions in the current rules, even if it's better now in 4th ed than it was in 3rd.

sigur
21-04-2005, 17:17
However, if they published big thick chunky rpg style sourcebooks in addition to the existing codex/rules stuff, they could devote them purely to fluff & painting and really go to town. So your codex has the rules and the basic background it gives you already (you know, species X is the best army to play cos... species X lives in the Blah Blah sector of the galaxy); your sourcebook is a 100+ pages of, for example, chapter history or eldar legends and artwork... whatever.

That's what I would like to see too.

Eversor
21-04-2005, 17:34
Personally, I like having books. So they're not perfect, but they feel like proper products. I wouldn't be able to stand printouts ;)

General_Xue
21-04-2005, 20:33
I wish they would treat each codex as an update rather than a new book - take the chaos codex, for example.

They created a couple of new characters, but left out some as well. If they put ALL the characters in, it would be a much thicker book. It wouldn't take long to change Doomrider's stats to fit 4th ed. They should also include fluff from the old vesions.

Lastly, there are literally thousands of miniatures all around the world, yet they have 1 PAGE of conversions and golden demons! When I get a new codex, I want to see loads of great pictures to inspire me!

Hell's Angel
21-04-2005, 22:48
What I cant believe is that people download file share software such as 'freewire' or 'bearshare' and do a search for 'warhammer' and then download the pdfs of the copyrighted codei. Not only is that illigal, but also unfair to those good hard working people that work for the games workshop!
:eek:

inquisitorautry
22-04-2005, 00:27
What would people that don't have access, or only have limited access, to the internet (they do still exist, I promise) do if they needed a new codex. The rulebooks exist (GW's and just about every other mini company that is in business) because printed medium is still the form of media that to which the most people in the world have access. Besides, I can read a codex on my toilet, my computer monitor's wire doesn't stretch that far.

the_yuk
22-04-2005, 02:52
Yes i much prefer realpaper to digital stuff. It would be hard to take hundreds of lose sheets to a tourny or something like that. Real books are the way to go, and GW can make money of them. If they had them online only im sure they would still charge fort eh privledge to download the articals and rules of the core games.

twisted_mentat
22-04-2005, 02:58
Isn't this the kind of thinking that got us those crappy little codexs from 3rd ed?

people bitched that they dind't want to blow X amount on a codex were they didn't care about the painting or the fluff, just wanted the rules, so GW comes out with a codex that is just rules and bare bones fluff and painting, that costs Y. but the majority of gamers said "WTF i want a Big codex that has painting and fluff as much as the rules!" so we're back to the X costing codexs...

Lord Tyran
22-04-2005, 05:53
Come play Warmachine, all the rules and all the Army lists in 1 book, if you want more then get the 2nd book

sulla
22-04-2005, 23:24
Blah, blah, blah, Evil GW, rant, rant, rant, greedy corporation, whine, whine, whine, monopoly...

Ah, portent must be back...

Nazguire
22-04-2005, 23:55
Blah, blah, blah, Evil GW, rant, rant, rant, greedy corporation, whine, whine, whine, monopoly...

Ah, portent must be back...


Yes, this conversation appears periodically doesn't it. Even on the old Portent it surfaced quite regularly as people that don't understand that the more money you a company, the more they are going to charge you and try and work against you. Meh, we are all going to keep playing and thus, paying so it don't make much difference until the prices get REALLY out of hand. This rant about all the rules in one book and all the background in one book etc etc is ridiculous. There are always new rules and background being added to the 40k and WFB universe, so the books would get out of date really quickly.

He Who Laughs
22-04-2005, 23:56
Whoever suggested seperating the the Rules from the Fluff and Painting should be shot... (that should stir up a few people ;) )

Why?

It's hard enough trying to get the younger generation of gamers to buy their damn Codex and NOT spend their cash on another Land Raider (that they can't use beacuse they haven't even got two Tactical Squads). An ADDITIONAL fluff book (eg the 4 Books of Chaos that were released a while ago) would be excellent for the rest of us veteran gamers who want more background, but is absolutely useless to the younger generation (who wouldn't buy it) - who, although you don't want to admit it, are the life-blood of Games Workshop - without new gamres, the hobby dries up. Whinge all you like about having too many ankle-biters in the store on Games Night - without them, they'd be no new 'Nids, no new Terminators and we'd still all be playing 2nd Ed (not entirely a bad thing, but it had it's flaws). By putting the Rules in with the Painting in with the Fluff - it subversively teaches the new gamers about the army they're collecting - so that they make sensible choices when it comes to theming their armies. One kid recently, with no prior 40K knowledge (but a long history in Fantasy) tried to tell me about his new Chapter Founding chapter - a bunch of mercenary Space Marines that are hired out by the Emperor... I just shook my head and said "Read the rulebook first mate".
So you see, without combining the three together (Rules, Fluff, Painting) kids new to the hobby would have no idea - and this would start to filter through into the future of Games Workshop. Long live chunky Codexes!!

Rich
23-04-2005, 00:03
Yes, this conversation appears periodically doesn't it. Even on the old Portent it surfaced quite regularly as people that don't understand that the more money you a company, the more they are going to charge you and try and work against you. Meh, we are all going to keep playing and thus, paying so it don't make much difference until the prices get REALLY out of hand. This rant about all the rules in one book and all the background in one book etc etc is ridiculous. There are always new rules and background being added to the 40k and WFB universe, so the books would get out of date really quickly.

Tempted to agree to a certain extent, but recently the 40k codexes have gone up from 10 to 12 - I for one am sick and tired of GW prices leaping up far in excess of the rate of inflation for no real discernable increase in quality. Quite the opposite in fact. It gets to the stage where you really can't be doing with shelling out for GW stuff anymore. A shame, really.

Crazy Harborc
23-04-2005, 00:24
GW want's a constant influx of newbies with lots of money as well as relatives with money. Since they have always charged for rulebooks and armybooks (codexs) GW is likely to continue doing it.

GW's frequent price hikes seem to be the "official cost cutting methods of choice" at GW. Once they hit the wall and sales numbers go down (again), the suits "might" get the hint

notdakuningist
23-04-2005, 00:51
Dude, Games workshop sucks. If you want to drop the money on their stuff that's great, but I don't want to hear any complaining from anybody about how going to ebay to purchase figures is hurting the hobby.

Brother Othorio
23-04-2005, 03:37
just to bring it up, i wouldnt say GW is likely to put rules up for free, but its not entirely unfeasable, the EPIC: Armageddon rulebook was put up for free download before it went to print (and is still up now) and when the game was finally released it sold something like 4x what they were expecting it too, I-Kore also had their game rules up for free download as well as available in print format and they were doing pretty well up until the whole mismanagement thing + alleged fraud knocked them for six (tho they seem to recoving quite well) ~ but i dont see anything like that happening unless GW suffers a MAJOR slip in profits..

angelspast
23-04-2005, 04:17
*gasp* making one pay for models AND books! *gasp*


.... not like this is a new thing...

glimli
23-04-2005, 06:57
if only they edited the books first and playtested them like they used to. remember when there was like two pages of faq each year or so covering all the armies and rules. there were only two pages becasue there wasnt that much wrong stuff. and even then it was like helm of many eyes vs rune of swiftness. not, "on p 3 x unit costs y and has z stats, on page 50 unit x costs w and has k stats". or "this war gear cant be sued on he move, the only guy who can use it always counts as moving". theyve just got sloppy and then lazy when it comes to faqs.

personmally i like the codexes and they ont change them that often, i just wish they relaised them when they were ready.

magnificent*
23-04-2005, 07:09
Whoever suggested seperating the the Rules from the Fluff and Painting should be shot... (that should stir up a few people ;) )

Why?

It's hard enough trying to get the younger generation of gamers to buy their damn Codex and NOT spend their cash on another Land Raider (that they can't use beacuse they haven't even got two Tactical Squads)

If you put codexes on for free then they could get the codex. Any kid rich enough to get into the hobby has a printer and a internet connection.

Steel Rabbit
23-04-2005, 07:19
I just hate it how people complain about GW's prices and then go out and buy a Van Dutch hat or a stupid video game. $50 for a disc that you finish in three hours only to get harassed online? Personally, I wish GW brought back the chunky 2nd 40K 4th-5th Fantasy codexes. I'll gladly pay $35.00 for a book that size as opposed to a magazine sized book.

Another thing to keep in mind, that shouldn't be reminded to you guys is that TTGs aren't like toys or other crap people enjoy. It's a specialty product, you see ads for PSPs and Spawn toys on TV and in Maxim wheras GW is known only to gamers (and not every gamer at that). If you don't want to spend the cash, that's cool, play VOID or Warmachine, or something else. You have a right to complain and get the most for your cash, if you don't feel that you are, then don't buy it, it's completely understandable. I on the other had (with the exception mentioned last paragraph) feel that the prices are fair (except for the Black Orc box in fantasy ($70)) for the product and quality offered.

magnificent*
23-04-2005, 14:08
I just hate it how people complain about GW's prices

The rules sections in a codex are a faulty merchandise, I don't have a problem with the cost.

Rich
23-04-2005, 14:39
I just hate it how people complain about GW's prices and then go out and buy a Van Dutch hat or a stupid video game. $50 for a disc that you finish in three hours only to get harassed online? Personally, I wish GW brought back the chunky 2nd 40K 4th-5th Fantasy codexes. I'll gladly pay $35.00 for a book that size as opposed to a magazine sized book.

I used to agree with the video game arguement, except that video games not only remain at a relatively constant price, but are also available from internet distributors for reduced prices (for example, amazon and cdwow). GW remove any such distributors ruthlessly, and so you end up with a situation where you can now get two CDs for the cost of a regiment box, wheras in the 'good old days' you used to be only able to get one. If or one find that situation ridiculous. Hence I now only buy the novels and the codexes, very rarely do I fork out for the models themselves. When codex price creep is factored in also though, you start to wonder whether it would be better to forget about it all entirely.

Steel Rabbit
23-04-2005, 19:10
Only GW US has done this, I know at least two sites that offer 30%+ off of their GW stuff. These places double as RT stores.

Crazy Harborc
23-04-2005, 20:49
I used to buy alot more GW stuff, I like 20 to 30 bodies to a unit. Now you get 16 (or less) minies in a box...........then the prices went up too. If the price hikes were just keeping up inflation, I could understand. IMHO, the only cost reduing GW does IS the price hikes.

I will just keep using the old versions. I will not be buying direct anytime soon. I know over 15 established wargamers who have walked away from GW products and rules/systems. Some of them are younger gamers (mid 20s to mid 30s) who got fed up with price hikes. Their FIRST reason for saying to heck with GW was/is the way GW kept rewriting the rules and armybooks. Every 4 years (or less) "here's the new improved rules for..." A second often heard reason was/is being tired of magic and superheros winning the games instead of tactics and troops.