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Grus
18-05-2008, 16:05
If you have a choice when do you pick your magic lores? In the army list or before the game when you know which army you are going to play?

If you do it in the army list which I think makes sense do you also pick your lore for the vampire forbidden lore in the army list and by the same logic do you pick the lore for lore specific anti magic stuff like the standard of sundering in the army list as well?

BloodiedSword
18-05-2008, 16:30
Page 111 of the BRB is pretty clear (by GW standards) on how to do this. Um.. in fact there's no way to make it any clearer than the text actually is.

Grus
18-05-2008, 16:56
Actually it does not. Page 111 says exactly how to pick spells and that you have to let your opponent know which lore you have for each of your wizards at that time. However it does not say anything about when picking your lores in preparation of for example a tournament.

The main reason for the question is that I watched a small tournament at a local store and they played that normal wizards would have their lores mentioned in the army list so therefore could not adapt to the army they were playing against while vampires with the forbidden lore just had forbidden lore in the list and picked lore at the beginning of each game.

Picking lore before the game is of course a big advantage and I think that either everyone should pick them directly before the game or everyone picks lore or decides which lore they have anti magic stuff against in the army list (including forbidden lore and for example banner of sundering)

Atrahasis
18-05-2008, 16:59
"Choosing a lore" is not part of the game sequence.

A wizard chooses spells from one of the lores available to him. He does not choose a lore as such.

BloodiedSword
18-05-2008, 17:14
Regardless of how a tournament adds its own restrictions to the choosing of spells, there is no reason that models with Forbidden Lore, Master of Sorcery, Seerstaff or anything else should be an exception to this.

Still, this is a question you should ask the tournament organiser, not us.

xragg
18-05-2008, 17:19
After placing terrain, but before anything else. You really shouldnt know what army your facing when choosing lores/spells. People usually do know because they know "Jon plays undead", they see some of their opponents army already set up on movement trays, they saw their opponent playing last round, or whatever reason. I really believe wizards should have to choose their lore when the army is written, but thats not the case.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
18-05-2008, 17:31
I have always thought it makes sense to pick it during the time they explain on those pages in the book at the beginning - pages 2-3 of the Big Red Rulebook of 7th edition is actually very clear.


In reality it simply shows that the two armies have some advance notice of each other like scouts or pickets out some miles from the battlefield have detected signs of an oncoming Ork Horde. Hmm...what should Marshal Todenfrantz do ? Well...he orders his Wizards to read/prepare their finest Fire and Heavens spells as he will need a lot of magical missile fire to halt the enemy tide at long range.



That makes sense.



If it were an oncoming Skaven horde, it might be better to order your Wizards to study Death and Shadow magic, to enhance the intimidation value your troops might have on the skittish ratmen, or to strike at their resolve with things like Doom and Darkness.


That also makes sense.




Basically, it would be UN-realistic if the two armies were just walking through the woods and suddenly came upon a clearing and were like "WHOA ! An enemy Army ! Let's get em ! Raaagh !" - though this CAN happen...it's quite rare as the history of Warhammer suggests.


So I think the Wizards would always have a little time to prepare their magics before actually running into the enemy forces (90% of the time they would have a good chance of knowing, generally, what they are facing).

Shamfrit
18-05-2008, 17:34
We've just started a small tournament at 2k, and we've all decided to pick lores when we hand in the lists, and keep them for the entirety of the tournament.

So I have a Wizard Lord with Lore of Shadows (which works wonders against some opponents, and is useless against half the armies) and a Mage with Lore of Beasts (Bear's Anger works with any opponent Match-up.

Chose before for tournaments, in friendly games, after you've set-up, it's more fun and evil that way :D

_Lucian_
18-05-2008, 18:32
Fulgrim if you are going to comment on what makes sense you might want to consider that empire mages will spend there entire lives dedicated to the study of a single lore as a single mage mastering more than one is something quite simply only the elves can do ;)

So unless the story plays out:

peasant: Lord i saw a bunch of orcs marauding across the glen

Lord: Did you hear that squire, orcs you hear. Go get me my fire mage

Squire: wont be needing the other 7 mages as well then then?

Lord: Ofcourse not, you know we are only allowed one mage as per the rules in our military roster, would be damn folly having all 8 types on hand in every battle. Better luck of the draw i say.

Squire: Of course lord, your right as always.

theunwantedbeing
18-05-2008, 19:03
You pick your lore before deployment, as per the rules.
The sundering standard rules state you pick a lore after deployment.

So you pick your lore, then the daemon player picks one of the lores you have chosen for the banner to effect.