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The Salmon Thief
20-05-2008, 22:50
I'm confused about GW's wholesale rules... do they have a maximum discount, or can wholesalers technically sell stuff at as much of a discount as they want? I ask because the highest I've ever seen from a regular web store is 20%, while one or two less solid stores sell stuff at 30% off.

Second, what's the deal with their thing about not having GW products in online stores/shopping carts? Is it just the images of boxes/models, or what? I know you can't do it, but sites like bitkingdom.com seem to get away selling complete kits with just pictures of the sprues... although still without a true shopping cart system. This could just be bitkingdom's design, though, I'm unsure.

Lastly, does anyone know if you must have a commercially zoned establishment to acquire a GW wholesale contract? I thought I remembered reading this on their old site a long time ago, but now they don't even have wholesale contract stuff on there.

Crazy Harborc
21-05-2008, 00:56
GW made the move several years ago. GW said it was to stop online only shops from undercutting brick and mortar prices. There were all kinds of small online operations that dropped GW off of their sites.

In the USA, what GW did was/is legal......Just business.:rolleyes:

In my state you must have licenses, tax number(s) a merchant number. I am sorry my memory of the correct nominclatures for what is needed.

By the by, trying to represent yourself as a legit business without the paperwork required by law will catch up to someone who does it. It's a crime. I have been there and thought about doing it (and inquired).....and did not.;)

Funny thing there are online discounters in other countries who are doing what cannot be done here.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
21-05-2008, 01:26
Good for GW.

Without brick-and-mortars, there is no Warhammer for the most part. And I say this as a person who plays only with friends, not at stores. But I got started by going into LGS and seeing the models.

In this day and age, it's all about the lowest prices, and to hell with the actual business itself. I go thirty minutes out of my way and pay the above-avergage prices simply because I appreciate their open tables, hobby advice, tournaments, and gaming community support.

blongbling
21-05-2008, 08:49
what i commented on has been deleted now ...

blongbling
21-05-2008, 09:53
Funny thing there are online discounters in other countries who are doing what cannot be done here.

its a tough one, the laws in Europe are very harsh, you have to deal with anyone who approaches you.

Lardidar
21-05-2008, 13:01
Not in the UK .... I can sell my product at whatever discount I like.

However the discount GW gives me is rapidly eaten up if you sell at anything more than 20% off.

blongbling
21-05-2008, 13:16
im talking about from a wholesale point of view, not from the view of teh retailer who can sell the product at whatever price they choose to

Lardidar
21-05-2008, 13:26
Hmm then I don't understand the question.

Is there a few wholesale places in the US?

Over hear there is only GW you can buy from directly as a retailer ... the discount they give is set at a base rate but can get slightly better based on a number of little things (Bulk orders, turnover, frequency of orders)

blongbling
21-05-2008, 13:39
in the US you can buy direct but also from Diamond Alliance (a distributor)...I think the original OP doesnt understand the difference between retailer and wholesaler.....he is asking can you sell at any price you like, which the answer is yes, its jsut whatever you want to make a profit or not

wickedvoodoo
22-05-2008, 09:42
The price for independant retailers to buy the stuff from GW must be quite low.

I know a guy who plays at the local club and runs an Ebay shop. He can sell plastic at a 35% discount and metal at 25% off. Can also sometimes save even more by getting just sprues without a box. (Also by getting the stuff at the club no need for postage costs :) ) He must still be making a profit at these prices otherwise he wouldn't be able to pay his rent etc. I have wondered a couple of times how much he actually pays for the stuff.

blongbling
22-05-2008, 10:07
gw offers 35% discount so he is making no profit on the plasitcs and some on the metal.....

Ward.
22-05-2008, 13:04
Odds are he's either separating the boxes into component parts and selling individually or casting up his own stuff and using his purchasing habits to disguise it then. As those discounts are definitely a bit much.

Gazak Blacktoof
22-05-2008, 13:17
Its possible to break up bulk deals (like battalion boxes) purchased at wholesale prices and sell them as discounted "out of box" regular products and still make a profit.

Not sure if that's legal or even going to turn you a worthwhile profit but the mathematics of it means you'll be making some money.

Lord_Dante
22-05-2008, 13:33
Would like to add I used to sell items. However I mainly sold at trade prices so that I could get whatever I wanted every month at trade. It wasn't about making cash.

DoktorZinieztro
22-05-2008, 17:33
gw offers 35% discount so he is making no profit on the plasitcs and some on the metal.....

At the level of investment YOU are willing to make.

That's all I will say.


Odds are he's either separating the boxes into component parts and selling individually or casting up his own stuff and using his purchasing habits to disguise it then. As those discounts are definitely a bit much.

Shooting from the hip... or slightly a bit more southwards, are we?

Please refrain from accusations. You might end up looking like a boob.

It can and it IS being done.

If a reputable trader did the 20%, making the extra 15%, out of the generalistic statement about "GW giving 35% off for wholesale"... That 15%would not even begin to cover costs of storage, staff, rent and all those pesky thingies that go with a "reputable" business.

So, really guys, don't make such silly assumptions before you know your economics, trade volume praxis and, well, run a business.

There are a lot of people that order way beyond the 300 quid minimum required to establish a trade account.

Now, this is ALL I will be saying.


Its possible to break up bulk deals (like battalion boxes) purchased at wholesale prices and sell them as discounted "out of box" regular products and still make a profit.

Not sure if that's legal or even going to turn you a worthwhile profit but the mathematics of it means you'll be making some money.

Once you buy it, you can do whatever you see fit to make the product move.

Battlewagon bitz was a very successful operation, thus GW meddled in and forces them to limit their discounting, not to stop their practice of selling bitz. Then, Neil from thewarstore.com came in and bought BWBitz, making the thing nice but not as attractive in terms of prices, and thus, making "fitter" from a GW's scrutator point of view.

yabbadabba
22-05-2008, 17:49
gw offers 35% discount so he is making no profit on the plasitcs and some on the metal.....

He could be using his tax status to make money on that kind of discount. Also if he orders enough or frequently or (unlikely) has multiple B+M locations he could get more discount.


Its possible to break up bulk deals (like battalion boxes) purchased at wholesale prices and sell them as discounted "out of box" regular products and still make a profit.
Not sure if that's legal or even going to turn you a worthwhile profit but the mathematics of it means you'll be making some money.

Not sure if legal has anything to do with it but in the UK/Europe GW's trade agreement with the customer prohibits them breaking down anything into it's component parts for resale. While I don't think you would end up in court, you would end up without a GW trade account.

Lardidar
22-05-2008, 17:51
There are a lot of people that order way beyond the 300 quid minimum required to establish a trade account.

They upped it to 2k I think last year .... it was £500 when I opened mine 2 years ago.

The min order has recently dropped to £100 though so its nice and easy to pick up just a few of the new products week to week.

blongbling
22-05-2008, 17:52
Odds are he's either separating the boxes into component parts and selling individually or casting up his own stuff and using his purchasing habits to disguise it then. As those discounts are definitely a bit much.


Its possible to break up bulk deals (like battalion boxes) purchased at wholesale prices and sell them as discounted "out of box" regular products and still make a profit.

Not sure if that's legal or even going to turn you a worthwhile profit but the mathematics of it means you'll be making some money.

if he is breaking the contents of boxes open and selling the components then he is breaking the terms and conditions of sale from GW to him.....they could refuse to supply him if they find out

razormasticator
22-05-2008, 17:54
There is an E-bay Seller who sells all of this stuff out of the box all the time. And does not charge for shipping.

I think he is in Ohio, USA. His prices are reasonable, but sometimes you get a deal, and other times you dont because alot of folks bid on his stuff because of the free shipping aspect.

DoktorZinieztro
22-05-2008, 18:57
There is an E-bay Seller who sells all of this stuff out of the box all the time. And does not charge for shipping.

I think he is in Ohio, USA. His prices are reasonable, but sometimes you get a deal, and other times you dont because alot of folks bid on his stuff because of the free shipping aspect.

That's teh thing with bidding...

Most of the time people will pay retail prices for unboxed goods... or more! Why, I just don't know... Darwinism gone bad or gone buying in the interwebz, more likley. :p

A merchant once tried to milk me when he got a "no sale" and mailed me for that "2nd chance" scam at ebay that I loathe, as a suspiciously timely sniper had raised the goods price to just 5 cents under retail, and then did not completed the transaction or the seller had a "2nd. identical item".

So, while everything is possible, you are better off with deals from sites and webstores that offer you the bitz for a fixed price or in set lots.

DoktorZinieztro
22-05-2008, 19:49
They upped it to 2k I think last year .... it was £500 when I opened mine 2 years ago.

Really? Isn't that the price for their "bestseller" and starter packages complete with display, paints and whatnot?


The min order has recently dropped to £100 though so its nice and easy to pick up just a few of the new products week to week.

Yep, that's what I've seen, although here in Mexico one store buys per month, the other get only new and "significatly important" stuff--the owner's words--on a monthly basis and makes quarterly restocks on everything else.

At the pace they are going, the restocks will only be two per year, three if really hardpressed... but with their attitude towards customer service, no one is counting on that.

VetSgtNamaan
22-05-2008, 20:29
GW does pretty much what ever will make them the most money. The whole thing about them cracking down on internet retailers is pretty much just a myth. It is selective enforcement, one site may do it two more will not. In canada (unless my friend who owns the local indie is lying) the retailer discount is 40%. I am quite sure GW knows about the various online retailers but besides telling the Warstore to remove thier shopping cart and the pictures, they leave the other ones alone.

Warstore is an easy target it is a huge retail organization others might be smaller perhaps only linked to say a book store or an unrelated retail operation if GW decided to try to flex thier muscles about something they can just go okay close my account see you later I will find something else to sell.

insaniak
22-05-2008, 20:43
Battlewagon bitz was a very successful operation, thus GW meddled in and forces them to limit their discounting, not to stop their practice of selling bitz.

GW didn't 'meddle' with BWB because they were successful.

BWB signed up for a trade account with GW, and that meant that GW expected them to follow the same rules as every other US trade account.

Rocky44
22-05-2008, 20:46
Where can you sign up for a trade account in the US?

insaniak
22-05-2008, 20:48
The whole thing about them cracking down on internet retailers is pretty much just a myth.

It's not a myth. What it is is a US-only policy.

e-tailers outside the US aren't covered by the same rules.

In some countries GW won't allow online-only sales from their trade accounts (they insist that trade accounts have an actual B&M store), but the US is the only one that was silly enough to ban online sales outright.

And, of course, that only has any effect if you actually have a trade account with GW...

DoktorZinieztro
23-05-2008, 01:41
GW didn't 'meddle' with BWB because they were successful.

BWB signed up for a trade account with GW, and that meant that GW expected them to follow the same rules as every other US trade account.

It was a figure of speech to show that because they were successful, they were more easy to notice... and we all know the suits will fly from the perches to feast on the carrion.

If any breach of contract was actually taking place, why did BWB continue under the warstore banner?

Easy. Because previous owner refused to comply to NEW conditions set by GW--presumably an increase in sales of boxed sets to actually overshadow the bitz sales. Still, whatever the reasons and talks, the previous owners chose to retire their interests.

Neal came in and agreed to the deal presented (as he was already selling new, shrink-wrapped boxes, it would only expand his business not force him to drastically alter it).

Thus, the new incarnation of BWB and its "not that attractive" pricing.

Yet, my examples are only illustrative of other ways to face the bitz issue.

DoktorZinieztro
23-05-2008, 01:49
And, of course, that only has any effect if you actually have a trade account with GW...

Exactly, and thanks to Alliance Distribution and other loopholes in the mechanics of free market-land, you don't even need to deal with GW, have a nice enough discount and give big discounts and count of bulk ordering to make money out of it.

My point is: Forced conditions from a manufacturer, really hurts its business and the oft-mentioned freedom of the market.

But that's the neoclassical school of economics, to you. "Buy from me, but never, ever under sell me."

The silly sissies. :eyebrows:

Ward.
23-05-2008, 01:57
Shooting from the hip... or slightly a bit more southwards, are we?

Please refrain from accusations. You might end up looking like a boob.

It can and it IS being done.

If a reputable trader did the 20%, making the extra 15%, out of the generalistic statement about "GW giving 35% off for wholesale"... That 15%would not even begin to cover costs of storage, staff, rent and all those pesky thingies that go with a "reputable" business.

So, really guys, don't make such silly assumptions before you know your economics, trade volume praxis and, well, run a business.

There are a lot of people that order way beyond the 300 quid minimum required to establish a trade account.

Now, this is ALL I will be saying.

See at first I thought that was a bit condescending, considering what I gave was speculation and you don't seem to believe that people do use their purchasing habits to mask their recast sales.

Not only that but the 15% difference should be getting made up in volume of sales and other business the product generates.

But I'll concede the point.

EDIT: On a different note, I wish they did 20% discounts in Australia, all we get is a 10%.

DoktorZinieztro
23-05-2008, 04:18
It's the freight that's a real killer for any deals over there, I'm sure.

Even if you got great deal over this side of the Pacific, maybe the postage woudl still make you save about 10%.

P.S.: It's not being condescending, it's just being blunt and direct about certain business facts that many a hobbyist just have no clue about, and storm in brandishing pitchforks, torches and acussing fingers.

P.S.S.: I guess I'm lucky, all the sweet deals I got over the intarwebz, have been metals in blisters or for plastic sprues.

But I saw a lot of "suspicious" lots when I visited ebay a few years ago.

Lardidar
23-05-2008, 13:29
Really? Isn't that the price for they "bestseller" and starter packages complete with display, paints and whatnot?

Sorry I was wrong ... I just checked my trade agreement and it says....

5.2.2 Minimum Starter Order
If a customer does not wish to commit to the €1,500/£1,000/10,000DKR/12,500SKR
recommended starter order, then the minimum initial order value will be
€500/£350/3,500DKR/4,250SKR. This minimum is set to ensure that the administrative
costs of Games Workshop are covered. Customers are, of course, free to order any value
they wish in excess of this amount.

So it is £350 to start an account and then min order of £100 after that.

DoktorZinieztro
23-05-2008, 14:25
No need, to be. It's not rocket science or our last-chance effort to push Nibiru back to the outer ris of the Solar System. ;)

500 Euros or 350 quid sounds just about right for many internetters of all sorts to get the ball rolling, with a "proyected" discount overall of an INITIAL 35%, and growing depending of volume of goods bought.

Now, if only I had the time, I am sure I would try to set up an operation in Mexico that had a storefront and mainly intarwebz goodness for fellow players that don't wish to submit to GW officialism, loco customs thanks to abusive couriers, and absurd "special" ordering politics for NEW stuff set by the stores here.

But as it is, right now, I feel guilty hanging around here for some nice conversation just to distract myself for a while, clearing up my head of business-related issues and pushy clients who snail-pay you. :eyebrows:

How'd say Communications services could get so stressing by mid year over... nothing, really? :confused:

The joys of owning your business, I guess...:D

Crazy Harborc
24-05-2008, 00:41
The discount in the USA when buying from Alliance is 40%. I really doubt dealing direct with GW,USA gets anymore of a discount off of retail(suggested list prices). GW did and likely still does offer ways to get additional percentages off of the price the indie store pays. Don't know about the rest of the world just the USA.

When GW went after the Warstore GW,USA also went after all the rest who had been selling GW products online. It wasn't just stores that discounted GW. IMHO, GW was trying to corner the online selling of GW products. In the USA, if you want to "shop", to see photos, prices, etc, to buy from a USA seller that is a retailer.......GW, USA cornered the market. It had NOTHING to do with helping the indies stores sell more. The online indie sellers were indie sellers, many HAD brick and mortar locations as well.

DoktorZinieztro
24-05-2008, 01:48
The discount in the USA when buying from Alliance is 40%. I really doubt dealing direct with GW,USA gets anymore of a discount off of retail(suggested list prices). GW did and likely still does offer ways to get additional percentages off of the price the indie store pays. Don't know about the rest of the world just the USA.

You'd be surprised.

I mean if GW Spain is any indication... You'd be surprised when a serious statement about wanting to unload a hefty wad of cash will get them to disclose.

I'm not making that up. A guy went for the "top" discount, and talked to me about associating with him so he could gather the amount discussed. Boy, was he persistent. But I guess that was partly due to the sales rep's own perseverance. :p


When GW went after the Warstore GW,USA also went after all the rest who had been selling GW products online. It wasn't just stores that discounted GW. IMHO, GW was trying to corner the online selling of GW products. In the USA, if you want to "shop", to see photos, prices, etc, to buy from a USA seller that is a retailer.......GW, USA cornered the market. It had NOTHING to do with helping the indies stores sell more. The online indie sellers were indie sellers, many HAD brick and mortar locations as well.

That's not news... I think we are confusing the infamous intarwebz crackdown---that has lost its punch as it is obvious by the amount of e-sellers operating this days--with the BWB harassment that ended with The Warstore buying the operation/"brand name".

That's what I've been referring to when I mention BWB and Neal, not anything else.

Crazy Harborc
24-05-2008, 02:38
I had not thought about the BWB "happening". I was mentioning what happened for the newbies (to Warseer) who had not known what was done to USA, indie retailers, on line in the recent past.;)

blongbling
24-05-2008, 11:00
You'd be surprised.

I mean if GW Spain is any indication... You'd be surprised when a serious statement about wanting to unload a hefty wad of cash will get them to disclose.

I'm not making that up. A guy went for the "top" discount, and talked to me about associating with him so he could gather the amount discussed. Boy, was he persistent. But I guess that was partly due to the sales rep's own perseverance. :p



what are you saying, that GW Spain offered you a special deal? when was that?

DoktorZinieztro
24-05-2008, 19:59
what are you saying, that GW Spain offered you a special deal? when was that?

Not me. A guy that for the sake of...anything, really, we'll call "Mario". He was the one who contacted me, and this all in the late 2005-mid 2006 timeframe, so technically it was 2 years ago, give or take...

And no.

There's no "special deals". There's TOP DISCOUNT margin based on the volume of your buy for a single order.

It's all a matter of scales.

Anecdote mode on:

To me being served from GW Spain (meaning increased courier prices and silly taxes, as well as add hideously translated books), instead of going the usual route many used before (getting stuff from GW US), was abusrd. Yet it was "enforced" by GW on "Mario", or so he told as he was channeled there when he called a GW US sales rep at initial contact.

This single fact, was what put me off the whole deal almost instantly. At the time, thanks to previous family business and connections, I could come up with a small-yet-nifty infrastructure to have efficient dealings and expedited moving of the goods to the U.S.-Mexico border, having it legally, accurately taxed, and quickly imported into the country, and then rapidly transported to where we both lived at the time (Mexico City) and where he wanted the store to oparate (the northern part of town that belongs to the Estado de México).

Yet, the market in all of Mexico is not that big and the economy continues to deteriorate, and "Mario"'s schemes were frankly subpar and overly hopeful, to say the least and remain polite.

Thus, I wished him luck and moved along.

Anecdote mode off.

Still, I must repeat myself: There are no special deals. I never implied such a thing. You came to such a conclussion. Another clear sign of your lack of extensive business knowledge and, possibly, your being of a young age.

Nothing wrong with any of those, but not jumping into conclussions and analyzing things before attempting to jump at someone's throat, calling them "ignorant" or putting words in their mouth, is never too early (or late, hopefully) to learn.