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Major Braindead
21-05-2008, 20:18
Hi everybody

I've started collecting Thousand Sons and because I love the miniatures, I've been thinking about creating a nice background story. However, I've run into some problems.

These marines are empty shells with some dust and a soul, right? So what happens when they die and the Chaos Lord wants to recruit some more? Is there some process normal chaos marines go through?
Otherwise, eventually, the Thousand Sons would simply stop to excist...

Also, are there books about these guys? Thousand Sons? Because my knowledge is rather slim, I'd love to learn more.

Thanks!

PondaNagura
21-05-2008, 20:20
they can re-attach the souls of the fallen marine back into the armor. that or stick a slave in the suit, and redo the rhubric spell.

Oberon
21-05-2008, 20:24
Umm, no... The Rubric was unique, it will not be cast again. Rubric marines are on the decrease, but they get new recruits (live marines) and I suppose they can fix the armour of a rubric for the soul again.

Major Braindead
21-05-2008, 20:30
Umm, no... The Rubric was unique, it will not be cast again. Rubric marines are on the decrease, but they get new recruits (live marines) and I suppose they can fix the armour of a rubric for the soul again.

So simply collect the fallen, put them back together and they're back again? Almost feels like Undead :)

Hideous Loon
21-05-2008, 21:07
Well, duh. The Thousand Sons are very Khemri-like, both in iconography and concept. All they need is a Raising spell.

johnmcl7
21-05-2008, 22:41
** Spoilers for Space Wolf books **






The Thousand Sons appear a couple of times in the trilogy, in the latter part of the third book the chaos marines are recreated by possessing existing human bodies which are physically changed to space marine proportions, an equivalent black carapace made out of their own blood and then the armour added. Ragnar faces the same Chaos Marine he killed far earlier in the book back on Fenris.

John

Gdolkin
21-05-2008, 23:25
** Spoilers for Space Wolf books **






The Thousand Sons appear a couple of times in the trilogy, in the latter part of the third book the chaos marines are recreated by possessing existing human bodies which are physically changed to space marine proportions, an equivalent black carapace made out of their own blood and then the armour added. Ragnar faces the same Chaos Marine he killed far earlier in the book back on Fenris.

John
..Don't remember this.. the third book is 'Grey Hunter', right? Does Ragnar ever actually kill Madox, if that's the Chaos Marine you mean?
Anyhoo, SPOILERS FOR 'INQUISITION WAR: CHAOS CHILD':




In this book, Thousand Sons capture Lexandro d'Arquebus of the Imperial Fists and intend to somehow make him one of them, but this may have been before GW came up with the whole Rubric, dust-in-the-armour thing.

johnmcl7
21-05-2008, 23:41
Yes, I was referring to Madox - in the first book (I think, only have the trilogy) Ragnar's first official mission as a Blood Claw is to find a group of missing Blood Claws. The group go deep into a cave finding Nightgangers, they fight off one group and eventually find a temple. In there is Madox, other chaos marines and the remains of the missing Blood Claw pack. Ragnar and the remaining Blood Claws make a run for it (Hengist stays back to cover them) but Madox catches up with Ragnar who is helping the heavily wounded grimskull. During the fight when Madox runs at Ragnar, the injured grimskull who is lying on the ground grabs Madox's leg putting him off balance letting Ragnar cut the head off, there's some comment about there being nothing there. Back to the current timeline Ragnar (or someone with him) comments third time lucky with killing Madox, implying there's been another time he killed him.

At the end of Grey Hunter the portal is open and the cultists are being possessed, they swell up, get a carapace and then armour appears on them - Ragnar recognises the first of these as being Madox who comments that Ragnar has come a long way since Fenris. They fight briefly but I think Ragnar goes on to try and stop the portal, not killing Madox.

Gdolkin
21-05-2008, 23:57
Damnit, the old 'Spoiler hidden behind blueness that I can't read even if I click'n'drag over it' malarkey..

johnmcl7
22-05-2008, 04:54
Have you tried ctrl+a to select all text to see if that brings it up?

John

Tiller5
22-05-2008, 11:36
Hi everybody

I've started collecting Thousand Sons and because I love the miniatures, I've been thinking about creating a nice background story. However, I've run into some problems.

These marines are empty shells with some dust and a soul, right? So what happens when they die and the Chaos Lord wants to recruit some more? Is there some process normal chaos marines go through?
Otherwise, eventually, the Thousand Sons would simply stop to excist...

Also, are there books about these guys? Thousand Sons? Because my knowledge is rather slim, I'd love to learn more.

Thanks!


Welcome to the conclave my friend!

Index Astartes III has information on them, although it is a difficult tome to acquire.

As for new recruits, I still follow the idea thatthe Sons would still get new living recruits who, although they may not share the same properties as their dustificated brethren, they can fill other roles within the warband that require a greater degree of self-awareness.

For example, Im using normal marines in my army, as Raptors and troops (see my painting log, in my sig!) and in terminator armour, as all warbands are bound to acquire new followers.

Also, what has been said about the dust armour thing is quite correct also. I imagine the Sons just sweeping up their fallemn brothers into a giant dustpan, and pouring them into their suts once theyre fixed. Or Astartes vacuum cleaners!

Cheers, Tiller5

Major Braindead
22-05-2008, 19:47
As for new recruits, I still follow the idea thatthe Sons would still get new living recruits who, although they may not share the same properties as their dustificated brethren, they can fill other roles within the warband that require a greater degree of self-awareness.

Yes, I'm starting to think in the same direction. Perhaps living followers my Daemon Prince will think of as 'expendable'. It could fit in with the mean character of the Daemon, bit ironic as well, it might be fun!

Anyway, thanks for the replies, keep them coming if you have some more :)

Avaron
23-05-2008, 06:15
I have allways felt that though the rubic that was cast all those years ago that effected a whole planet mabye even more may have been unique I belive some as still capable of a much smaller scale casting as well as rebinding the soul to the armor.

these are the best sorcerers in the universe they will not be stoped by something as lame as death.

D.J.
23-05-2008, 22:36
I was under the impression that the soul of the fallen marine is bound to the armour. So when it's fixed the soul is once again imprisoned in it and animates it once more. Sounds kinda mean to the soul, but Tzeench is change. "Hey I'm free.... no I'm not... I'm free..... nevermind..." sounds Tzeenchy to me. :p

Elays
23-05-2008, 23:06
While I concur on the general fluffage of the soul being bound to armour, I'd like to make a single point. The Rubric was cast by Ahriman to THWART Tzeench (sp?). Destroying their bodies prevented mutation, in a rather extreme way. But I also notice a similarity with the Eldar here. The Eldar carry soulstones so that when they die they deprive Slaanesh of their souls. So in essence, the armour of the Thousand Sons has become their soulstone, denying their souls to Big T. So while they will never know death nor rest, at least they're not swallowed by the Lord of Change. Very Ahriman, I think.

Elays The Verbose

PS: Just so I'm clear on my final conclusion, Rubric = one-time-thing and Thousand Sons don't die, they are merely broken sufficiently so as to be unable to function.

D.J.
24-05-2008, 18:16
Rubric Marine armour = Soul Stone...... That's a good one. I didn't really notice the comparison before you said it.

Tzeench is the "Lord and Master of Change", I think he's happy with what Ahriman did. He did stop Magnus from destroying him after all. Even called him a "usefull servant". What shakes things up and creates change more than a wild card?

Nazguire
25-05-2008, 02:33
I can see lesser versions, far weaker and crude then the planet wide spell that was the Ahriman's Rubric, of the Rubric being cast on potential recruits, especially by those of Ahrimans' warbands.

Of those of Magnus, since he despised the Rubric, I can't really see Magnus jumping at the chance of performing the same thing. Moreover recruiting only the most powerful of the psychics he finds. If you mutate out of control, then you aren't strong enough anyways.

Of course this isn't a very reliable source of recruits is it, but those that do survive will be quite the sorcerors indeed, which is what Magnus wants let's be realistic.

While the original Thousand Sons are just souls that have been reduced to clinging to their armour and never knowing any 'rest', 'new' Thousand Sons I imagine are just souls that Magnus has plucked from the Warp and stuffed in a suit of armour.

Seeing as this would be quite stressful for the soul involved, I can't see these having as long a 'life' expectancy as the Rubric Marines, but ce la vie.

Avaron
25-05-2008, 02:46
also the rubic augmented the sorcerers powers of those who survived it. though even some of the weaker sorcerers died and became rubic marines.

Major Braindead
25-05-2008, 09:20
This stuff is great, thanks to all for taking the effort to post here :)