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Marshal Augustine
22-05-2008, 17:21
Ok... I just wanted to see how many here (in this forum) think that the dread cc weapon "counts as" a power fist. If you are one of them read on, if not, read on as well .

The other day I played an ork player. My furious charging Venerable dreadnough charged his last 2 mega armoured nobz. As soon as I was about to roll my dice to hit (at initiative) the issue came up. "But that is a power fist!" he said. Looking though the rules, yes, a Power Fist does reduce your I to 1... but in the vehicle section (dont remember the pg number but towards the end) there is a whole section on "Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons". Here is states that a dreadnought close combat weapon doubles the basic strength of the weilder and ignores armour saves. Now... nowhere does it state that it reduces your initiative.

In 9 years of playing I have never come across someone who thought that dreads used powerfists... and that they would be hampered by it ( a huge machanical machine hampered by a powerfist?) Anyhow, It was not a heater argument but it went on for a while... so I just rolled a D6 and ended up using it the (what I think is truly) the wrong way.

Anyhow, other than that the game was quite a blast!... but I just wanted to know what you thought... the most shocking part was that he said that the GW where he plays make dreadnoughts be affected in this way! (now, I know GW is not the best at having empolyees that "know" the rules).. but this was quite a shock.

Anyhow I am glad I got that off my chest.

Cheers to all!

Archon.42
22-05-2008, 17:25
it is not a powerfist
show your opponent that section of the rulebook
signed, sealed, delivered =D

PondaNagura
22-05-2008, 17:31
p.73. it doubles strength, ignores armor saves, but is not treated as a powerfist.

Thoth62
22-05-2008, 17:33
A dreadnaught close combat weapon is not a powerfist. Just like a powerfist is not a dreadnaught close combat weapon.

The DCCW, like you said, has it's own rules in the rulebook. In it's description, it does not say either that it acts like a powerfist or that it strikes at Initiative 1. Which would mean then, that it doesn't. You were right, your opponent was not. DCCW's do not strike at I1.

Partisan Rimmo
22-05-2008, 17:41
It's just quite simply not a powerfist. Read the dreadnought's profile. I guarantee no where does the word 'Powerfist' appear.

But this is a common misconception surprisingly. I've encountered at least several players who believed this. Some of whom took some considerable reconvincing. Don't back down. The other guy doesn't have anywhere to even begin basing his argument off.

At least it's not as bad as the players who try to make your dreadnought take leadership tests. Though not by much.

Marshal Augustine
22-05-2008, 18:50
Any suggestions when encountering something like this?

thanks for the support. Cheers all!

RCgothic
22-05-2008, 19:08
Codex. Point to equipment section and show the equipment.

Rulebook. Point to the rules for the equipment.

Then do the happy dance. Sorted.

Victomorga
22-05-2008, 19:55
Codex. Point to equipment section and show the equipment.

Rulebook. Point to the rules for the equipment.

Then do the happy dance. Sorted.

yeah, that about sums it up. I don't really see how this argument could happen in the first place, seeing as how it doesn't say anything about powerfists in the codex entry. and beyond that, it doesn't make any sense logistically (not that logic figures into a whole hell of a lot of 40k issues).

Luisjoey
22-05-2008, 20:27
For fluff is a power fist but in a vehicle heavy weapons move and shoot and attack ;)