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blindingdark
22-05-2008, 21:48
Hi all,

hope this in in the right place but Ive noticed a lot of posts stating that there is now ''no chaos undivided'' as of the new daemon book.

This is not true.

as it may appear to some that it no longer exists, i felt the need to say something. firstly, whilst there is no option in the daemon book to take a mark of chaos undivided, no where does it say that a daemon prince must take a mark meaning he can be an ''undivided general''

in fact, the marks are listed under options, as in choice.
all this means is that no bonus is given for the mark, as they all ready have it.
as standard, they are chaos undivided.

secondly , yes there are no undivided troops to field (bar furies) but one could argue that to field the warriors from all the dark gods is true undivided, as implied by the title.

if the new warriors of chaos follow suit, then a standard chaos warrior is undivided is it not ? no chaos warrior is dedicated to a specific god with out buying a mark bar SC.

who can honestly say there is no chaos undivided ?
i find the fact that it has been stated repeatedly almost offensive in its blindness.

if you disagree with this, please let me know here, cos i really dont get it:wtf:

gd09garett
22-05-2008, 21:59
The problem is that Undivided used to be an option in itself. One rejected the false divisions presented by the 4 great pretenders and instead revealed in Chaos in its undivided glory. Now, you can try to take parts of the 4 pretenders and recreate the whole, but will always fall short since imperfection cannot create prefection.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Edited- typos

blindingdark
22-05-2008, 22:09
The problem is that Undivided used to be an option in itself

It is still an option, all be it a poor one.

no, deamons cannot field an army of undivided troops, but warriors most certainly can. i doubt very much each unit will be forced to have a mark, ergo chaos undivided is still here. if GW were to do this for the daemons an entire range of new units would have to be made /sculpted and that was never going to happen. to mix the daemon units is undivided, as in together all.

dodicula
22-05-2008, 22:59
In the fluff (at least the books)it seems like undivided doesn't mean you worship "Chaos" you just don't go overboard worshipping any one god too much.

skullman86
22-05-2008, 23:56
Well, generally if you can field a certain type of unit or w/e the rules should state it clearly and since the get you by list posted on the forum makes no mention of undivided at all, that suggests to me that it doesn't exist anymore.Undivided did come with a bonus so if GW tweaks the marks then doesn't mention one of them are we to assume that the mark and it's bonus is unchanged or are we to take the rules at face value?Ok, you don't give a daemon a mark so he's technically undivided....Well if he gains nothing from it then undivided is effectively useless which leads me to think it isn't a mark at all IMHO (at least not a good one :rolleyes:).The only way undivided can be classified as a mark is if it gives some kind of bonus to the army.

Bonuses aside, Undivided also effects army composition.The 4 gods hate each other (for the most part) so to get a mixed army you are required to take a general that is not god specific....right now it seems like people can field whatever the hell they want and just totally brush aside 20+ years of history.I'm a little bothered by the fact that I have been told that god x and y hate each other's guts but now they might end up being buddy buddy. A khorne army with a wizard is "cheese" by most peoples' standards (khorne hates magic why would he use it?) but now it seems like GW is encouraging those kinds of armies.

Maybe I missed something but from what I gather it seems like the rules will be the same for marks and units (need a character with the mark to have a unit of that god it in the army) only you wont need an undivided general to have multiple gods in the army.That sounds ok until you realize that *oh yeah these guys used to hate each other* :wtf:If undivided is not mentioned in the new army book then it is gone no matter how many unmarked units you use :p

laughingman
23-05-2008, 01:04
i really will miss undivided armies but we all must adapt or die.

Joewrightgm
23-05-2008, 01:11
I'm actually planning on doing a Hordes undivided army; there was a reason for the mark of undivided being a 'free' option on bestigors and Chaos Warriors and Knights.

Just becasue there is no option for undivided doesn't mean it doesn't exist. My end force is going to have no marks in it, simply because my force doesn't need to wear their allegiance on their sleeve:

Every slain warrior is an offering to Khorne, every skillful sword-stroke or act of pillage and rape pleases the Dark Prince, the despair of the armies coming pleases Father Nurgle, and every event plays a part in Tzeentch's Great Game.

Just because we do not shout all their names, doesn't mean we don't worship them all.

sabre4190
23-05-2008, 01:30
Well, if trends continue, it seems there will be no point to take an undivided army in the true sense of the word for mortals. Why worship chaos undivided when i can take a nice mark and gain a new special rule? With no drawbacks other than paying points that is? There isnt. I loved how chaos undivided used to be. It gave you a nice upgrade, but it was the only way you could unify the different powers. Now, if the WD list means anything, I can take a completely khornate force with nothing but Tzeentch sorcerors. I dont buy it. Chaos undivided is still an option, but an option that is nothing more than a drawback.

As far as daemons are concerned, its pretty much the same as it was last edition. I personally would have liked a "generic" daemon, one that had the option to serve chaos undivided or one the infinite powers that inhabit the warp (there are more than 4 gods), all with one base statline. After all, there are plenty of times when armies fight simple daemons that arnt dedicated to any god. Still, this isnt a downside, as they dont exist yet. Im just saying it would make a nice plastic kit.

Still, I think all my units and characters are going to switch from being undivided to worshipping slaanesh. After all, theres no point in not choosing an individual god rules wise now is there?

Dominatrix
23-05-2008, 07:48
Undivided used to be about mortals/beasts worshiping chaos in its entirety. It gave specific bonuses which where the rewards from their faith in the chaos gods pantheon as a whole. So you see it was a solid option just like the four chaos gods. Sure you can now leave mortals unmarked and say they are undivided but that means nothing.

Undivided has gone from being a valid worship choice to "what you are named if unmarked".

Gazak Blacktoof
23-05-2008, 10:38
Why worship chaos undivided when i can take a nice mark and gain a new special rule? With no drawbacks other than paying points that is? There isnt.


I believe this was the exact point made in the White Dwarf design notes when the Hordes of Chaos book was released. Without a benefit for not taking one of the four marks there was no point in not paying the points and having the upgrade.


The mark of undivided was unfortunately a bit too strong in sixth edition. It was better than both the tzeentch and nurgle mark for most units.

I think that if the undivided mark had provided a non-psychological benefit it would have been easier to balance with the other marks.

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
23-05-2008, 10:52
Well, in Wh40k there is also no Chaos Undivided - and i play such army :)

Braad
23-05-2008, 11:10
Well, you'll never know. Maybe some time in the future, there will be actual undivided daemons.
Took quite some time to get common trolls too, but we do have them now!

Lordsaradain
23-05-2008, 12:22
The only way undivided can be classified as a mark is if it gives some kind of bonus to the army.



With that reasoning you could say that none of the other marks exist either. Because the only model that can choose marks is the DP, and the marks cost 35 pts and give no bonus by themselves.

Urgat
23-05-2008, 13:13
That being said, fluff-wise... who the hell gives the undivided mark, anyway? Which god, the Undidived God? :p An undivided mark (marks are gifted by the gods, right?) does not sound very fluffy to begin with, or am I mistaken somewhere?