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superduperkoopatrooper
23-05-2008, 15:34
So first ever game against the new daemons, fortunately I’d brought my Sigmarite Empire army along who happen to specialise in smiting such unholy beasts (I used my all comers army list but I would say that it has particular strengths against vampires and daemons)

My army;
Lector on Altar with Speculum and Meteoric Iron
Preist with great weapon, shield, HA, Rod of Command
Level 1 with Wizard’s Staff (allows for use of 3 dice to cast) and scroll (fireball for spell)
2 x 28 Flagellants with prophets
21 Flagellants with prophet
2 x 10 xbows with 5 man archer and militia detachments each
Cannon
15 Militia with champ and trumpet
6 Inner Circle Knights Panther with Warbanner

His army;
Skulltaker on juggernaught
Khorne herald on juggernaught with sundering bsb
2 Tzeentch heralds with flying, +1 dice and all spells between them (only spell cast was flickering fire)
16 Bloodletters with banner
18 Daemonettes with banner
5 flesh hounds
5 seekers with no charge reaction banner
6 furies
2 x 10 horrors
2 bloodcrushers with +D6” charge banner

Set up;
Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace-horrors-seekers
Space-nettes-letters-terrain-furies-horrors-hounds-crushers

Terrain Terrain
Space -xbows-flags-militia-knights-xbows-cannon-altar
Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace-flags-flags

Hope that makes sense. Skulltaker set up in the letters, tz heralds in the horrors and bsb with crushers. My wizard deployed near the terrain on the right (we treated it like a wood) and my priest in the big militia unit. I haven’t put the detachments in but they were near their parent units.

I got to set up my cannon after the furies went down but for some reason I went for a position that allowed a turn 2 charge from the furies. In hindsight the other edge of the board or right in the bottom right corner to unnerve the juggernaughts would have been better. Come to think of it, the khorne herald wouldn’t have been getting look out sirs so getting LOS to him would have been perfect but maybe next time, eh?

We roll for first turn and the daemons roll a 6 so get to go first.

Turn 1;
The daemons all advance pretty quickly. The furies land about 10” in front of the xbows and the seekers move up behind them. The Juggernaughts are the only unit who head down the (my) right flank. Magic achieves nothing.

In my turn, I position the altar behind the inevitably doomed cannon. My knights rush past the bloodletters’ LOS to get a look at the two horror blocks. The right side archers push to the edge of the terrain to begin operation getintheway. The left side militia do the same by standing in front of the bloodletters at an awkward angle.

Magic and shooting kills two furies and some daemonettes - not good enough to save the cannon.

Turn 2;
The furies charge the cannon and the seekers charge the right xbows whose militia detachment fail to counter charge. The herald splits from the juggernaughts but both units advance about 8” further down the flank looking to charge my altar. The bloodletters just shuffle as they can’t risk exposing themselves to the flagellants by charging my priceless 25pt detachment. The rest of the daemons move a little closer (or further away in the case of the horrors).

Magic kills two knights who panic and flee to the middle of my line which puts them in front and slightly to the side of the bloodletters. In combat the furies only kill one crewman but it’s enough to break’em. The furies overrun into the altar. The seekers break the crossbows and pursue into the flagellants behind.

In my turn the knights rally and the militia now pluck up the courage to flank the seekers. The only other notable movement is the right archers sticking one brave chappy in front of the corner of the bloodcrushers. The militia over on the left keep on harassing the bloodletters to stop them from charging my knights.

The most notable spell cast in the magic phase was dazzling brightness from the altar on the seekers, tzeentch obviously didn’t feel like protecting the daughters of slaanesh. The crossbows on the left kill an impressive 4 or so daemonettes but it won’t be enough to save them.

The lector slaps the furies silly in combat (having soulfired them earlier I think). The seekers fail to do enough wounds and are obliterated by the frenzied loons they so recklessly engaged.

Turn 3;
The bloodcrushers charge archers, the nettes charge the left xbows, skulltaker dashes out of the letters to charge the knights. The archers flee which sends the crushers into the terrain. The letters continue their shuffling and other unengaged units just readjust a bit. The bsb herald doesn’t fancy his chances against the altar so just sidles up next to the stuck crushers. From this point on daemon magic fails to cause any significant casualties so I’ll stop mentioning it.

In combat the daemonettes make a mess of the other xbows but only pursue 5”. Skulltaker’s attacks kill two of the four remaining knights which means the knights win by 1, hurrah! He passes his Ld7 test though.

In my turn, the large militia unit + priest try to charge skulltaker’s flank but fail (what I would have given to pass that!). The altar sidles up to the side of the bsb herald who was himself sidling as described earlier. There now remain two flagellant blocks in the middle who start advancing on the horrors and the hounds. The other block turns to charge the daemonettes next turn. The militia detachment on the right move up next to the terrain in which the archers who’d fled previously managed to rally. Magic sees Sigmar deliver a miracle as a cleansing flare goes through the MR and other dice to kill one juggernaught. In combat skulltaker only kills one knight so loses again, but passes his freakin’ test again - cue much suppressed wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Turn 3 status;

--------------------------horrors
----------------------------------horrors-flesh hounds

---------letters--------------flags-flags-terrain(archers inside)jugger
----militia------staker.vs.knights------terrain-----bsb
Nettes-flags---15militia---------5militia-----------altar

Turn 4;
The flesh hounds charge the right flagellants and the nearest horrors move in front of the other flag unit to stop them flanking in my turn. The bsb and crusher make odd charges against the archers and militia who flee and hold respectively. This leads to both daemon units failing to engage. The nettes turn to face their certain destruction. At this point I think the letters can finally charge the militia (1 lone ranger now having been flickered) who flees. Skulltaker finally kills the last knight and the flesh hounds tear apart about 10 flagellants, fortunately help was on its way! But would it get there in time…

I charge the nettes with the flagellants who obliterate them - mmm nice. The other unengaged flagellant unit charges the horrors who also leave the daemons in a smeary mess. The militia charge skulltaker and the champion is shoved into a challenge by the warrior priest. Skulltaker loses combat by 1 again but rolls an 8 and takes just one wound. The altar charges the rear of the bsb herald and consequently challenges. Through impact hits and my much improves stats I think I only succeeded in inflicting 1 wound. The 0+ armour and ward are tough. With a rear and outnumbering though I win and now my opponent has the decency to fail two consecutive tests which pops the bsb. The altar is now in line to overrun into the flank of the flesh hounds, gets a 9, and fails by an inch! Oh the humanity, as he now watches more flagellants torn apart by the hounds. He’s also now in the terrain which inflicts a wound on the chariot.

Turn 5;
The bloodletters charge into the skulltaker combat and clean house. The remaining horrors turn to try to get out of the way of the rampaging unit of flagellants. The flesh hounds wipe out the remaining flagellants as the lector is forced to look on in frustration.

In my turn, the altar charges the flesh hounds in the flank reducing them to one model on one wound (impact hits from the terrain reduced the altar to 2 wounds left). The flagellants near the horrors turn to give chase.

Turn 6;
The horrors and heralds try in vain to fry the flagellants but their efforts are futile. The flesh hound actually causes a wound on the altar which begins to make me a little nervous.

In my final turn the arch lector manages to smite the final hound and the flagellants massacre the horrors.

End result: minor win! Hoorah!

Thoughts: Although I was pretty confident about winning throughout, the killyness of all the enemy units coupled with fear to prevent charges when I needed them meant it wasn’t the walkover I’d hoped for at certain stages. Flagellants are so much fun to charge with, they generally inflict 10 or more wounds (before saves) which just creams any unit. On the flip side, the flesh hounds worked their way through one of my blocks in no time at all.

I wasted my shooting though like nobody’s business, I think I should have done something better with it than just shoot for 1 or 2 turns then watch it all die. At least the loss of it all lead to the demise of the slaanesh and fury units I guess. I feel slightly hamstrung by it as its lack of mobility means my deployment has to be spot on which it ain’t in most games :D

All the magic resistance was a serious pain as it meant soulfires and cleansing flares didn’t make the impact they can against daemonic foes. Unfortunately flesh hounds have become pretty ubiquitous so I guess I better get used to it.

As for the enemy magic, something that only hit home in that game is how limited tzeentch heralds are by being only able to use 3 power dice (they don’t even have access to power stones). That means that half the time their attempts to cast the really scary bolt of change fail which just wastes dice.

I think I was lucky not to have faced any flamers who could have got my detachments out of the way in very short order and then seriously dented my infantry blocks. I guess only facing 1 unit of flesh hounds was a blessing too. I worry that these two units are going to be almost universally present in daemon armies. On a positive note, some flesh hounds and furies apparently wiped out most of a vamp army on their own in a game going on near mine which suggests that the vampires’ short reign of supremacy has ended (and by an army that in my opinion has enough weaknesses for other armies to exploit). (Rereading that it looks like a totally baseless assumption but what I mean is it backs up my theory that the flaming and magical attacks of the daemons as well as the sundering banner etc. really capitalise on the VC weaknesses that other armies can’t. This balances with the fact that all those special rules mean nothing against an empire army that mostly casts bound spells, and other such ‘normal’ armies.)

In summary: daemons are very tough but (list designing within reason) not unbeatable.

Malorian
23-05-2008, 16:22
Good report.

I'm still wondering how I'll do against the new deamons. They seem scary, but they basically have to go with big blocks which means you have mroe units to deal with them

I'm worried about flamers too...

Draconian77
23-05-2008, 18:10
Great battle report, I see you did indeed slap the Warbanner onto the Knights.

I have to say I'm not to worried about demons. All their armies seem to comprise of large blocks/small support units and RBT's love small support units!

Flamers are annoying though. Probably the only unit in the entire book that is too cheap. Just need some heavy hitters than can charge through cover or a lot of magic missiles.

Peegore
23-05-2008, 18:29
Enjoyed the report S.D.K.T! Impression I got, as I was reading it, you were going to pull off a little more more than a Minor Victory...shame about the 1" short Altar charge on the 'hounds.... frustrating innit?!?. But hey; boy done good!

Reminds me, after my Skaven are done, I have a 2250pt Sigmarite army to sort out and re-paint as well. Shame my usual Daemon opponent hasn't been playing much at all recently...he's probably running around his World of Warcraft as we speak...

Zoolander
23-05-2008, 21:28
IMO, I believe your opponent would have done better with a better list. I fault his list construction and use of his units as part of his loss. But in any case, good job!

As a side note to something you said, you are correct in a sense about Tzeentch heralds. They really cannot cast bolt of change effectively, and therefore any player that attempts to cast that spell with a herald is not playing to the herald's true effectiveness. If the heralds stays with the tzeentch lore, the only missile spell that should be used to any effectiveness is flickering fire. Now, I usually run one herald with heavens, and I find the thunderbolts and other spells much easier to get off and much more devastating! Leave Bolt of Change for the LoC. ;-)

Gimp
25-05-2008, 00:28
I like the idea behind your army

And its great to see the new deamons loose makes me feel less scared about facing them.

Kerill
27-05-2008, 09:41
Its strange that undivided lists so far (despite the fact that they are supposed to be stronger than mon0 lists) don't seem to have the same synergy as the mono-god lists. It seems the best lists are two-god or one god lists with 4 power undivided not really excelling at anything and not working together well.

I wonder if this trend will continue or if different undivided lists will become prominent.

superduperkoopatrooper
27-05-2008, 11:59
Thanks for the replies everyone.

@zoolander - couldn't my list have been better though? (i.e. more stanks and Franzies) List improvement is a tricky issue as it's always going to tend towards replicating whatever is dominating at tournaments so you have to draw the line somewhere.

@kerill - I don't know too much about the general success of mixed vs mono. I would hazard a guess though that my sigmarite army would be pretty decent against khorne and nurgle and stand less chance against slaanesh or tzeentch. I think the mono lists just amplify the scale of victory or defeat.

Draconian77
27-05-2008, 13:21
Improving a list doesn't always mean just filling it with whats perceived to be the best choices out there. To be honest the 2 Stank Franz list is only bad because of the 4 Cannons occupying the special choices.

All I would suggest is swapping your heroes around a little bit.

Priests are very good in Knight units and if you give them the Dawn Armour+Shield they gain a 1+ re-rollable save which is very useful for taking challenges on the chin. Could also add the Sigil of Sigmar to make the Knights MR1.

The Mage is this game really should have chosen the Lore of Light shouldn't he? The first spell is a Demon killer.

superduperkoopatrooper
27-05-2008, 13:40
I know what you mean, I might take out the rod of command as it's not easy to engineer a situation where it comes in handy and 50pts could probably be better spent elsewhere.

A priest in knights is nice but I haven't had any bright ideas about converting one (I don't want to use Luthor Huss as a normal priest). That said, with the range of Empire plastics available it probably wouldn't be much of a tall order so I'll give it some thought.

My opponent in that game had the sundering banner and since I was planning to cast spells on three dice with my staff the risk of miscasting was too great unfortunately. As great as light magic is vs daemons, I think the prevalance of that banner might make it a little redundant.

Draconian77
27-05-2008, 16:12
You could always try to find a non GW mounted Warrior, stick on a few holy books+oversized hammer and then glue him to an Empire steed.

You don't miscast to often on 3 dice IME but the Sundering Banner is just another no-brainer items spewed from GW's offices. I swear they don't even try any more...

SevenSins
29-05-2008, 18:17
nice rep, and I really like your armylist (I guess I have a soft spot for flaggelants, although i prefer arco-flaggelants myself:) )