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Fulgrim's-Chosen
24-05-2008, 18:59
Hello.

Simple question: Can spells that list their only restriction as "the target must be visible to the caster" be cast into or out of a close combat if they are not defined as magic missiles (which clearly can't fire into combats) ?

A few examples I can think of would be:

Conflagration of Doom

Steal Soul (the one that says ..."with NO targeting restrictions whatsoever")

The Plague Wind (new Nurgle Daemons)

Shriveling Pox (new Nurgle Daemons)

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For instance, if a Great Unclean One is in combat with an enemy High Elf on Star Dragon...and has cast Miasma of Pestilence successfully (making the Elf and Dragon WS-1, STR-1, Tough-1, Init-1, Attacks-1 until the start of the Daemon's "next" Magic Phase)............THEN casts the spell Shriveling Pox on the Rider or Dragon standing directly in front of him, in base-to-base, because the only restriction listed for Pox is range (which he has) and visible (and he's a Large Target looking straight into the face of the Elf/Dragon in a model sense) to the Caster ?


(same question for the other mentioned spells)

Nurgling Chieftain
24-05-2008, 19:08
As a general rule, a spell can only be cast into close combat (other than on the caster himself) if the spell states that it can be (BRB, page 107, left column, 2nd paragraph from bottom). ...The only real question has been what constitutes a statement that it can.

Of the spells you listed, only Steal Soul is castable on a unit (well, model) in HtH, IMO.

Zoolander
25-05-2008, 06:01
He's right. Unless the spell specifically says so, it may not. However, the paragraph on pg 107 has always seemed... redundant to me. "Wizards may not cast spells at units engaged in close combat, unless the spell only affects the caster himself..." If the spell only affects the caster himself, then it isn't being cast at a unit in close combat... so that statement was kind of unnecessary. But leave it to GW to make a simple statement more confusing that it needs to be.

However, with the Steal Soul spell, it's possible to read that another way. "No targeting restrictions whatsoever", could refer to the fact that you may target a individual model with the spell while they are in a unit, or out of LOS, something normally not possible. It may not supercede the normal targetting rules for magic. But RAW says you can...

WLBjork
25-05-2008, 07:46
He's right. Unless the spell specifically says so, it may not. However, the paragraph on pg 107 has always seemed... redundant to me. "Wizards may not cast spells at units engaged in close combat, unless the spell only affects the caster himself..." If the spell only affects the caster himself, then it isn't being cast at a unit in close combat... so that statement was kind of unnecessary. But leave it to GW to make a simple statement more confusing that it needs to be.

They're thinking of a character in combat casting buff spells on himself, such as Bear's Anger. It's still being cast at a unit in close combat.

Grogugluk
25-05-2008, 08:53
Since the GUO is a large target could he cast the plague wind at a unit he could see?

And in that case.. plague wind just says any enemy unit within 18 inches.

Is there something that says you have to have line of sight to the enemy unit? Could he just hit any unit within 18 besides the one he is in combat with?


I'm also trying to iron out how the nurgle magic works (going to start a 2 month campaign with GUO as my general for the whole thing.)


Thanks

Dark_Mage99
25-05-2008, 21:33
@Grog: Assuming he's not fighting a unit that's also a large target, he can.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
25-05-2008, 21:44
So, basically, there is no way the GUO could hit a character with his Miasma of Pestilence aura (can be cast on the GUO himself while he is in close combat to reduce enemy character or other models in the front rank to Toughness-1), THEN hit that character with the Shriveling Pox ability which has its only restriction as "Visible to the caster" and range (both of which he would have as he's a Large Target looking down at a 20-25 mm character model who is directly in front of him in the close-combat) ?

It WOULD seem a bit strong if you COULD do that...but sometimes with GW, you never know :p

Dark_Mage99
26-05-2008, 00:58
So, basically, there is no way the GUO could hit a character with his Miasma of Pestilence aura (can be cast on the GUO himself while he is in close combat to reduce enemy character or other models in the front rank to Toughness-1), THEN hit that character with the Shriveling Pox ability which has its only restriction as "Visible to the caster" and range (both of which he would have as he's a Large Target looking down at a 20-25 mm character model who is directly in front of him in the close-combat) ?

It WOULD seem a bit strong if you COULD do that...but sometimes with GW, you never know :p

Eh?

Miasma only effects those in base to base... what does being a large target have to do with casting Pox (on the weakened unit?) - unless you are casting it out of hand to hand. In which case, Miasma won't touch the targetted unit.

I don't see what's so strong about casting one of his spells :confused:

Grogugluk
26-05-2008, 06:57
He is talking about targeting the Unit he is in HtH with.

The spell is says something along the lines of "pick a model that model must make a toughness test or take d6 wounds with no armor save"


Which would be pretty awesome if you could do it in HtH.


But the fact that he can blast other units that he can see makes me alot happier about his magic potential.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
30-05-2008, 20:47
So, to reference a recent in-game example, can a player cast Conflagration of Doom (Lore of Fire) at my Bloodthirster, when he is engaged in close-combat with a unit of Ghouls ?

* generally the rulebook makes reference to magic-missiles being restricted, but on some spells they make it seem like there are no OTHER restrictions other than the one being listed/given.

Example....if we assume the default is "you can't cast into combat, naturally".

Then a spell says, "blah blah blah....even if the unit is in close combat" - we can take that to mean that it DOES work in combats.


Now, GW has a habit of writing some of their rules/wordings in a confusing or vague fashion. Sometimes, for spells, they will write something like:

"...with NO targeting restrictions whatsoever..." - the infamous Steal Soul line that seems 100% to be useable in CC, but still sometimes gets argued about.


Or,

"...target an enemy character with the only restriction that the Wizard must be able to see the target"

Or,

"This spell may be cast on any unit on the table." (no further clarification given)

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They write like that incessantly ! :rolleyes:


Why not just have a column after each spell that was like:


NAME:

CASTING COST:

FLUFF DESCRIPTION:

RULES DESCRIPTION:

Needs Line of Sight: YES or NO

Can Be Cast Into Close-Combat: YES or NO

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Something like that would be so helpful.

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Anyways...what's the answer to this specific
question on Conflagration ?

decker_cky
30-05-2008, 21:02
Does it say it can be cast into combat? If not, is it targeting the wizard himself? If not, you can't cast it into combat.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
31-05-2008, 23:50
Exception being Steal Soul ?

"...with NO targeting restrictions whatsoever..." ?