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View Full Version : Tzeentch Herald, WIngs or Chariot



Tuch
25-05-2008, 02:44
When outfitting your Herald which do you prefer, wings or a chariot?

Wings give much greater mobility and are cheaper.

The chariot is good for supportive flank charges but not much else, and is way less maneuverable. However it doesn't eat into gift points.

Thoughts?

Malagant
25-05-2008, 02:53
Chariot unless pinching points. Can't eat in to the points for gifts, imo. Disc if pinching points...just as mobile as chariot but can't dish damage.

][nquist0r
25-05-2008, 06:40
What mark? A tzeentch Herald can ride in a flying chariot. A slaanesh chariot moves 10 inches on the ground... Sure you loose 360 degree LOS, but way less manuverable? Not IMHO.

Obeisance
25-05-2008, 11:00
A Tzeentch Herald is the only one with access to wings, just fyi.

...

I'm going to be running a Herald on Disc with Flames of Tzeentch.. and probably a Spellbreaker.

Stouty
25-05-2008, 16:18
The wings are useful when: you don't wish to spend any more points on your gifts and you need fly. The base size is smaller than a disc so it is better, as long as you don't mind spending points you could be spending on gifts (so just your scroll caddy then or whatever). Anyone that thinks the 6+ armour save is a serious advantage on a 2 wound character shall be shot:p

Disc useful when: You need fly and you want to use all of your gift allowance. It's cheap and it works, but I'm interested as to whether or not it makes your 360 LOS.

Chariot useful when: You want extra impact and have points to burn. I've never thought about it much since the tzeentch herald has always seemed a tad to fragile for me to want to throw him around into combat.

Tuch
25-05-2008, 17:36
the tzeentch herald has always seemed a tad to fragile for me to want to throw him around into combat.

Ya, thats the problem I'm havening with him. He is only good for flank hits to negate rank bonus as the chariot combat ability really sucks and there are cheaper ways to do this without hanging my 150+ point herald out there.

I had forgotten about the disc but if he in on the disc he can't join units (right?) and it gives him a wider frontage for more attacks on him. Also, I don't see where the disc treats him as a large target for casting purposes as it used to which removes its former greatest advantage.

sulla
25-05-2008, 18:43
Neither IMO. Keep him in the core horrors for the ward save. master of sorcery and spell breaker IMO. That way he knows and keeps those horrors at a decent level.

A chariot makes him cc focused. He's not great there. A disc makes him vulnerable to targetting. If you keep a pair of horror units close to each other, they can combine firepower and he can hop from one to the other for safety and/or to sacrifice a weakened one if need be.

Znail
25-05-2008, 23:10
Chariot is great! It makes for a very good flanking unit as it combines the hitting power of a chariot with the manurverability of flight. Keeping him a unit of horrors arent quite as good as it could be as he is so fragile that its easy to kill him even with rank and file troops aiming attacks on him. Its good vs armies with alot of ranged damage thou.

Zangor
26-05-2008, 00:30
But if you put him on a chariot with master of sorcery (lore of fire) and have him use the flaming sword of Rhuin he could be pretty hard hitting I guess.

lokigod
26-05-2008, 00:34
Also wouldn't wings give a -1 to shoot at as he would be a lone model on foot? I prefer the disc for the extra combat boost and it's cheap!

theunwantedbeing
26-05-2008, 01:05
Disc...full item allwance intact, 6+ armour save, us2 +1 st3 attack

Chariot..full item allowance intact, 5+ save, 2+ ward(randomising to hit the guy) us5 in total and a couple of extra st3 attacks plus some st4 impact hits if he charges.

Wings...only 30pts of items left(power vortex or one of the other's) but he is still us1 so -1 to hit from shooting and he can stay in a unit to spread around his 4+ ward save.

Wings to me seem to most useful.
Although the chariot is good for getting rid of enemy war machines and such simply down to it's impact hits and fairly high unit strength.

Lycannus
26-05-2008, 01:06
I use mine in the chariot, but thats mainly because i converted a kick ass modal for it!

Malagant
26-05-2008, 02:14
More of a Rules question, really, but this seems a fitting thread: do the Screamers pulling the Chariot maintain their Slashing Attack ability?

Xavier
26-05-2008, 02:44
No they don't, although they are screamers they no longer follow the normal rules for screamers.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
26-05-2008, 22:25
I have been using Chariots for Tzeentch my last few games and they've done quite well, even against the Invo-Spam-Vamps.

The extra size makes them slightly less maneuverable, but the can pivot when they land to face any direction they want to shoot spells out at anyways, and things like Gift of Chaos, etc. don't even need line of sight to any particular target so you are never hurting for casting options.

The biggest thing is that he is much more durable in the Chariot. Shooting hits are randomized and if they are at him, he can use the +2 bonus for the Chariot to get a 5+ Armor Save, followed by his personal 4+ Ward Save.

He also has the chance that some shots/wounds may hit the Toughness-4, 4-Wound Chariot instead, saving him from death that would otherwise be upon him.

Lastly, I've found it useful to allocate Instability wounds to, instead of losing the Herald, just have the Chariot take 1-2 (if you have to), and preserve the more important caster for one more chance at Gift of Chaos, etc. on the enemy battle line !

--------------

* Lastly, it doesn't eat into your gift allowance so I am able to field my favored Master of Sorcery + Spellbreaker combo for a shade over 220 with the Chariot.

You only "save" around 60-pts when you go the Wings route, and automatically lose out on the Spellbreaker option (or Master of Sorcery, which is mandatory in my view), because you are using Gift Points on Wings, instead of buying your Herald-mobile and retaining your full allowance of Gifts to spend on good stuff !

Note that Iridescent Corona has some potential to be useful on a Tzeentch Chariot too, if you happened to get engaged in combat. It's not great, but it's something...*

SPYDER68
27-05-2008, 14:20
Why would screamers lose part of their abilites ? as in the Slashing attacks...


All the Tzeentch chariot says is that it is pulled bye 2x screamers, where does it say they lose slashing attacks ? they are screamers, i didn't see where it says they lose there screamer abilities.. isnt this the same as saying a Juggernaught loses their attacks as magical, and so on because they are pulling a chariot now ? No where have i seen that says they lose their base abilites.

Finnigan2004
27-05-2008, 14:33
I like using the flying herald. This allows me to put him in a unit of horrors at the start, and shield him from shooting until I eliminate the enemy missile troops. Then, when the enemy battle line approaches and I no longer want to be in the unit, he jumps to the rear of the enemy and fires away from there.

HalfEvil333
27-05-2008, 16:31
Why would screamers lose part of their abilites ? as in the Slashing attacks...


All the Tzeentch chariot says is that it is pulled bye 2x screamers, where does it say they lose slashing attacks ? they are screamers, i didn't see where it says they lose there screamer abilities.. isnt this the same as saying a Juggernaught loses their attacks as magical, and so on because they are pulling a chariot now ? No where have i seen that says they lose their base abilites.

Its not that is says they lose their abilities. Its the fact that they don't have the abilities period. Under the special rules for the chariot, the slashing attack is not listed. You can't perform something you don't have.

SPYDER68
27-05-2008, 16:38
Its not that is says they lose their abilities. Its the fact that they don't have the abilities period. Under the special rules for the chariot, the slashing attack is not listed. You can't perform something you don't have.


Under the entry it says, Pulled bye 2 screamers of tzeentch right ?

HalfEvil333
27-05-2008, 17:19
Under the entry it says, Pulled bye 2 screamers of tzeentch right ?

Correct. It then goes to list in the Special Rules that it has Daemonic, Chariot, Fly, and then Flaming Attacks with the tag (Screamers only). While Screamers specifically states under its Special Rules that they have Slashing Attack, along with Flaming Attacks, Daemonic, and Flying Unit. Claiming that the chariot can make Slashing Attacks because it is pulled by Screamers, despite the fact the chariot lacks the rule, is like claiming Discs can make a Slashing Attack because they used to be Screamers, despite the entry stating they can't.

SPYDER68
27-05-2008, 17:30
Correct. It then goes to list in the Special Rules that it has Daemonic, Chariot, Fly, and then Flaming Attacks with the tag (Screamers only). While Screamers specifically states under its Special Rules that they have Slashing Attack, along with Flaming Attacks, Daemonic, and Flying Unit. Claiming that the chariot can make Slashing Attacks because it is pulled by Screamers, despite the fact the chariot lacks the rule, is like claiming Discs can make a Slashing Attack because they used to be Screamers, despite the entry stating they can't.


Pulling Discs into this since they used to be screamers is just pulling fluff into rules where it doesnt belong.

decker_cky
27-05-2008, 17:39
They don't have slashing attacks because they don't have the rule in their entry. There's really no more to it than that. Much like there's different profiles for bloodletters in the book, there's different screamers for the chariot than there is when they're free. It's pretty obvious considering the chariot costs the same as 2 screamers, but is more resilient and hits harder.

Akuma
27-05-2008, 22:26
Wings ... 2x Heralds ... 6 Dices ... Lore of Beasts ... Bears anger Herald with s6 5a on charge ? - warmachine crew dead ? - pricels

sulla
28-05-2008, 06:14
Wings ... 2x Heralds ... 6 Dices ... Lore of Beasts ... Bears anger Herald with s6 5a on charge ? - warmachine crew dead ? - pricels

Bear's anger dispelled times two. 2 heralds killed by war machine crew in combat... Now that's priceless...

SPYDER68
28-05-2008, 14:41
I had my winged herald die to a bolt thrower crew the other day, he asked is that guy good in close combat ? (at start of the game) i said nope he sucks at it. Then 2nd turn i charge his bolt thrower crew instead of getting shot and he said, liar you said he sucked at close combat. I was like wel.. he does.. thats just 2 guys that man a bolt thrower with no save. i missed all my attacks.. he wounded once.. then i took another wound from failing my leadership test bye 1.

All i could say was told ya he sucked at it.