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John Wayne II
25-05-2008, 05:22
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=600005&pIndex=0&aId=4900001&start=1

So, the Age of Mankind draws to an end...what do we make of that? ;)

legio mortis
25-05-2008, 05:35
I think it's just standard same-old GW doom'n'gloom nonsense. It's just them going "everyone's screwed", like we didn't hear them the other fifty times. I don't think it's really that important.

Drogmir
25-05-2008, 07:18
Oh wow, I love the new art.

Shadowheart
25-05-2008, 08:35
Sounds to me like a new GW angle on what 40K already is. "The Time of Ending" is just by way of telling you where you should place it in human history - at the end. I don't think the actual 'ending' will play any part in the background.

There's many stories set at the end of the world/universe/human race (The Dying Earth, The Book of the New Sun, The Dancers at the End of Time etc.) that don't actually revolve around the end. But it can contribute a lot to the atmosphere.

Lord Damocles
25-05-2008, 08:52
GW's just put a name to the 'Woeisme-we'realldoomed-doomedIsay' senario which apparently makes the 40K'verse more grim and dark. Nothing new to see here...

Shibboleth
25-05-2008, 08:57
The Age of Mankind may end but humans will still be around, same as the Age of the Eldar has ended, but they're still around.

I'd love to see the Imperium collapse. Maybe Mars and the Mechanicus Forgeworlds split from the Imperium, the Emperor finally dies, and so now we wait for his second coming, the 'Final Battle', the 'Wolftime', return of all the missing Primarchs, 'Unification of Humanity', or any of those different names for it in the various prophecies.

Epicenter
25-05-2008, 11:24
I suspect they mean the "End of the Age of Man" is basically going to be the herald of a new "Age of Strife" - that is, the status quo of the Imperium being strong enough to more or less hold everyone else down is basically coming to an end. While I don't think the Imperium is going to be reduced to a co-equal player for galaxy, it's approaching the point that a lot of the fluff has been saying for years before this - the "Manifest Destiny" of humankind is nowhere near assured anymore and lots of aliens are going to be boiling out of the woodwork to gut decaying Imperium that can't hide its rot anymore.

What this actually means for the fluff is basically nothing at all. We've all known that for years. 40k fluff writers aren't very subtle. Or original for that matter.

Despite being a diehard Imperial fan, I'm not really curious about what happens to the Imperium in 5th edition fluff, at least not compared to seeing what happens to the Tau. In many ways, the Tau in 4th edition have started their own Great Crusade to seize the galaxy, like the Emperor did nearly 11,000 years ago in the current fluff. If the rumors are right and 5th edition is set in the twilight of M42, a 1,000 year jump is like equal to all Tau civilization up to this point. I don't really see the Tau having swallowed up the entire galaxy, let alone the Eastern half of it.

So something had to have slowed or stopped them, and I don't think it's the Imperium. I'm very curious to see what did, though. Perhaps a Tau civil war?

EDIT: I guess there's a possibility that the Tau are still on the cusp of reforging the stars in the name of the Greater Good, as well. It'd kinda fit in with the Imperium that's been about to fall for 10,000 years now.

Imperium: "You guys fallen from your corruption, decay, and ignorance yet?"
Eldar: "You guys extinct yet?"
Chaos: "You win yet?"
Necron: "You awake yet?"
Tyranid: "Ready for the check yet or are there more courses?"
Tau: "Ready to reforge the stars for the Greater Good yet?"
Ork: "You guys ready for the Ragnaork?"
Dark Eldar: "Is Vect still in charge out there plotting his dark evil purple plots?"

Iracundus
25-05-2008, 15:42
Despite the usual doom and gloom title, and the retrospectively inserted details about the Throne supposedly failing, the rumors say the timeline has not budged at all from its old and stuck year 999, so it looks like there is no real change.

DarkMatter2
25-05-2008, 16:28
Not that important. The Imperium is the most powerful faction by far. Doom and gloom is just atmosphere. The Imperium ain't goin' anywhere.

The new art is EXTREMELY amazing though.

God-Splitter
25-05-2008, 16:58
Must Buy! I Must Buy!

TheBigBadWolf
25-05-2008, 17:05
i am loving the upping in fluff, the loss of fluff from 3rd to 4th was terrible, i have to say i am so excited now about 5th edition, i was only mildly inteseted before but all this new fluff stuff has me jizzing my breiks, as my old mate gav used to say:D

MvS
25-05-2008, 18:19
I agree 100%.

The over simplifying of the rules in previous editions was seen to be a mistake because this is an aspirational hobby, not just an easy game for children. It's taken GW just a little bit longer to see that it was the imagery as much as the cool toy soldiers that attracts people to the hobby.

It seems they're slowly redressing the balance! :D

Herman the Heathen
25-05-2008, 20:26
Omg! That's some sweet artwork. Love the orky charge (no surprise here, hehe), just look at the bottom right where a smurf really get to feel the búsiness end of a choppa...

Looking good!

The Anarchist
25-05-2008, 21:45
i gotta say i love the artwork, particularly the Dark Eldar, been waiting for that sort of simple imagry of comogrargh for 8 years. however i strongly suspect this is the same old doom and gloom, i mean it may have some new events to refer to for its doom and gloom but not much beyond that.

on the other handa friend made a comment in jest; "maybe this is considered the end as next eddition will be going back to the start. it would explain all the HH books and expanded stuff from early Imperium" he said this whilst getting his mini's donw on the table. by the time he looked up we were all staring at him and wondering if he might not be on to something......think about it people, its a possibility.

biggreengribbly
25-05-2008, 21:49
If I recall my brief glance at the actual book a few days back, the period they have labelled 'the time of ending' is in fact the last 250 years of Imperial History...

CaptainAdama
26-05-2008, 12:08
What would interest me as an evolution of the 40K universe - not that it'll happen - is for some catastrophic event to encompass Terra, and for it to be cut off from the rest of the Imperium. Without the High Lords, the Adeptus Terra and so on, the Imperium of Man becomes a multitude of tiny empires. Each Space Marine chapter is an empire unto itself - Ultramar being by far the largest, of course - and numerous Governors, Lord Generals and various despots try to carve out their own little fiefdom.The beauty of it is that it doesn't affect your average Imperial citizen.

As for the catastrophe on Terra? Could be anything. A warp storm cuts them off, the Mechanicus rebels, the Golden Throne fails...


As much as I like our ol' fascist Imperium, I think this sort of change could be for the betterment of the background. To me, at least, it's somewhat more evocative. And it allows for an effort by, perhaps, a reborn Emperor to start another Great Crusade.

"All this has happened before...and will happen again."

Lord Fatwa
26-05-2008, 12:19
As much as I know this isn't going to happen...

I would love so very dearly for this edition to be the beginning of a White Wolf/World of Darkness style end of the world, with well run global campaigns (pfft...), the moving forward of the storyline (double pfft...), and then the end, whether it be the birth of Star Child, or equivalent, the Death of the Emperor, the expanse or closing of the Eye of Terror, the end of life as we know it as delivered by the nids/Necrons/Orks et al, or the Rhana Dandra/Return of the Primarchs for the ultimate battle of doom.

That way the next edition could be a setting/background reboot to fix up the balance of 'greatest threats to mankind' that seems to happen every time a new Non-Imperial codex is released. A proper drawing of the lines and boundaries so that we can see, in the background at least, definitive evidence to show exactly who's who and who's where and what they're all capable of... As I said, I know this isn't going to happen, but if they keep retconning everything, they may as well just restart it...

Sigh... A man can dream, I suppose...

Hal'jin
26-05-2008, 12:25
Not quite sure about that. If the Golden Throne falls so does the Astronomican. That means no warp travel and all the world pretty much left on their own, not being able to go too far. Suddenly half the hive worlds die of starvation as they won't get their food transports on time if at all.
But maybe the Imperium has to fall for it to be reforged.
Dream on, we won't get that concluded, ever. :p

And they can't put future editions in pre-Heresy. That'd mean that Tau, Tyranid and Necron players at least are very very screwed. So are Chaos Space Marines. :p

Epicenter
26-05-2008, 12:40
I would love so very dearly for this edition to be the beginning of a White Wolf/World of Darkness style end of the world

God forbid, no. Please no.

I know what you're talking about.

But comparing to the fiasco of WW's horrible "endgames" in their products, and really uninspired natures of their rebooted products* makes me shudder that anyone else would just utterly destroy their game worlds into an insipid morass like WW did.





* Yeah, to be fair, the new White Wolf system is great stuff...their fluff? No. Awful. Gah. Except for Changeling, maybe.

Big TM
26-05-2008, 13:07
huh, the only reason theyd destroy the 40k universe is so they could shut down:(

fortunately, Theyre about to release a new rulebook, so this is unlikely:D

Templar Ben
26-05-2008, 13:40
God forbid, no. Please no.

I know what you're talking about.

But comparing to the fiasco of WW's horrible "endgames" in their products, and really uninspired natures of their rebooted products* makes me shudder that anyone else would just utterly destroy their game worlds into an insipid morass like WW did.

It did drive away a lot of players and upset game stores that had product that would never move.

Naturally I am saying this as the person that in each thread like this advocates an Imp of Man civil war.

DapperAnarchist
26-05-2008, 16:24
I like that the Time of Ending is now 250 years long.. .I wish GW would ditch this whole "present day" concept. Its the 41st MILLENIUM, not a few years. Set a global campaign in the year 40078, for conquest of an Exodite world, or something like that.... 1st-3rd editions seemed to do this - I mean, 3rd Ed. Imperial Guard could put Macharius on the field! That was cool...

Iuris
26-05-2008, 16:33
See, there's the problem - not everyone likes fighting in the past. I'd never field a dead special character, for example - it just doesn't work. Just a matter of taste, thought I'd point it out.

Alpharius
27-05-2008, 15:26
See, there's the problem - not everyone likes fighting in the past. I'd never field a dead special character, for example - it just doesn't work. Just a matter of taste, thought I'd point it out.

You mean, like, 37,000 years in the future the past? ;)

John Wayne II
28-05-2008, 01:35
You know, I think this is really the end for humanity. In fact, I'm amazed it has lasted this long. It's a civilization that's spread out over a million worlds, with a myriad of conflicting cultures and races, and yet has more or less stayed in one piece, give or take a few dozen worlds. And let's remember, these guys enforce a rather repressive religion and worship a dead guy on a glorified support machine, and think that every time you turn on the computer you have to chant litanies and spread some incense over the keyboard to appease the machine spirits. I mean, come on. There's a massive waste of resources and manpower being done in the Imperium every day, all because the idiots on Mars thinks Windows Vista is a gift from Gawd or summat. :rolleyes:

And there's the corruption that's endemic thorought its every structure and being, spreading all the way to the High Lords of Terra themselves.

However, things don't look so rosy for everybody's favourite new kid on the block, the Tau. I mean, isn't there a Tyranid Splinter Fleet round their place in the Eastern Part of the galaxy? And there's the Farsight Enclave, and the ever present threat of Orks...capturing a handful of worlds is all nice and dandy, but they's got big problems of their own and they should probably concentrate on staying alive rather than having delusional aspirations to galactical dominance.

thechosenone
28-05-2008, 02:49
I do recall when another uber popular gaming company claimed its gaming setting was coming to an apocalyptic end. It was mentioned above in only one post but that's White Wolf's World of Darkness. They ended their gaming setting and created a new one that was almost exactly the same. Sigh.

There are many awesome ways the time of ending could go but the thing is, games workshop isn't gunna End the empire of men. I mean its the biggest selling clump of armies they sell. I think if they do something big and rash its a perfect example of them not listening to us. We want a little story advancement and they toy around with the end times. If the Emperor finally died and the Lords of Terra took over or civil war broke out between the mechanicum and the High Lords that would be neat. Or high lords take over and several marine chapters rise to oppose them, also neat. Age of apostasy stuff. I think some story advancement is needed not an end to the empire of men or anything. I also don't see much coming of it, at least not yet.

setekhite
28-05-2008, 11:05
I guess that the "Time of Ending" schtick could be how the higher echelons of the Imperium perceive their situation. While the Imperium has been through many crises before, the really big ones have generally been internal - the Horus Heresy, the Reign of Blood etc - with rival Imperial factions squaring off. At the end of the 41st Millienium, the Imperium is facing serious Xenos threats to its very existence for the first time since the Great Crusade. The Tyranids and Necrons are new Xenos threats on an unprecedented, galaxy-wide scale. The increasingly unified Orks look like they could also become a threat on the same level (the Tau, by comparison, are something the Imperium is quite used to - a localised alien empire to be dealt with when resources permit). Couple this with the strength of Chaos, and you can see how the more realistic elements of the Imperial high command would be worrying that their resources are at breaking point. Whatever way things go, the status quo that has existed since the Horus Heresy is no longer indefinitely sustainable; the Age of the Imperium seems to be in its twilight.

Lavadude360
28-05-2008, 12:59
I went into my local GW the uesterday and asked about this and I was told;

"The Imperium is being attacked by everyone at once, Necrons are awkening and space marines are dying in droves at every major encounter. So the Imperium are like 'well how did the Emperor do it?' oh yeah sending 20,000 marines to attack one system, that could work."

So does this mean that they are bringing legions back?

Alpharius
28-05-2008, 13:17
While GW would love it if we all bought about a Legion of Space Marine's each, I doubt it.

I think people are reading a bit too much into what is just a clever turn of a phrase.

The 40K timeline isn't going anywhere, and certainly isn't moving too far forward, for a very, very long time.

When the Primarchs return (in the rules and with models), then that truly will be the "End Time" as GW scrambles madly for one last cash grab before the hostile takeover...

LexxBomb
28-05-2008, 16:33
i shore hope the golden throne does stop as it means the reamergence of the star child

FashaTheDog
28-05-2008, 17:07
You know John Wayne II, I think you may be on to something with Windows Vista and it would make pefect sense for everything regarding appeasing the machine spirits in 40K. Next time I'm at my parent's (I refuse to shell out for another broken OS while my games run on a less broken XP and I can still get Fedora Core for everything else) I'll have to try chanting litinies to appease the machine spirit while spreading incense from a censor over the keyboard and computer and report the results.

Bit of a spoiler here for anyone who reads the HH novels or plans to.



In Legion, they had the Cabal's prophesy of the Imperium lasting some 10,000 to 20,000 years and then taking the entire galaxy with it as it fell. This looks like GW is just working in a 'new' piece to the mythos. I doubt they will follow this spin to the end of the game and reboot or yelling suckers and run off with all your money leaving you with jack-squat (wait no, they've been doing that for a long time now). This does offer a fun aveune to follow as things intensify and the grim darkness gets darker. Yes the Imperium will take a hit in the fluff, but there have been plenty of other "big" hits, making it only important as far a summer campaign and/or marketing is concerned. The forseeable future of 40K is business as usual with extra war and bigger plastic kits.

Easy E
28-05-2008, 18:09
New and Improved X-TREME GRIM!!!!!!1111!!!

Lord Damocles
28-05-2008, 18:53
New and Improved X-TREME GRIM!!!!!!1111!!!

With 20% more skulls than the next leading brand!

DrDoom
28-05-2008, 19:09
They're just being dramatic, nothing new. Looks fantastic though, and I like the timeline.

Firaxin
28-05-2008, 20:50
With 20% more skulls than the next leading brand!

Some one needs to quote this guy.

tez
29-05-2008, 08:24
The third edition rule book made it sound like all of Humanity was trapped in one fortress with Aliens surrounding them and stuff.

Orca
29-05-2008, 17:20
With 20% more skulls than the next leading brand!

May I .sig that?

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
29-05-2008, 17:32
huh, the only reason theyd destroy the 40k universe is so they could shut down:(

fortunately, Theyre about to release a new rulebook, so this is unlikely:D

Or they could do a White Wolf & create a new 40K universe?

But that would never happen...

Luthor's Shadow
29-05-2008, 17:33
The Imperium shall die and the Emperor will finally have enough fiber in his diet and get off his Royal Throne and Flush the whole Galaxy down.

To be honest, its just a new spin on 40K. They want us to buy it, to keep buying Rulebooks and why the heck not? Its better than World of Darkness and them rebooting the whole system. I despised the fact that Vampire the Maquerade went really far and ruined my favorite clans. Sigh.

GW deserve and should keep things stagnating. Its built into the fluff. Nothing ever changes. A battle here, a victory here, in the end, it means abosultely nothing. Thats the point of 40K.

philipdgilbert
29-05-2008, 18:24
They are throwing around a whole load of ideas currently. Decent fluff makes my spine tingle, and here are just some of the ones I have heard:

The Golden Throne is Broken or Breaking
Exactly what it says on the tin, this might see the end of the Emperor. Note this will not 'bring forth the star child' becuase it got written out, because apparently having the Emperor as Jesus, Hitler, Buddha, the works was considered offensive.

The Blood Angels Will Fall To Chaos
The old favourite, there is talk about making them turn full time to chaos, although everyone who has been around for more than a millennium has a reason to go chaos, even ultramarines...

Ultramarines Split from the Imperium
Thats right, you read it right. The idea was that the Ultramarines looked at the state of the Imperium and decided it wasn't what they signed up for, and decide to go off and make their own Imperium to their ideal, kind of Cap A tried to do in Civil War. Although this got thrown out because they thought it would be too confusing that they aren't chaos, they aren't Imperium, but they were still space marines.

The Dragon Awakens
If the big global campaigns go badly, like really really badly, the Dragon on Mars will awaken to kick the **** of anyone who steps up, kind of like 'these are mine, naff off!'

Necrons in the Inquisition
This one is actually going on as we speak, for all of those of you who haven't read Xenology, do so! There are Necrons in the Inquisition! Actually working to help run the Imperium. When the guy pulls his face off to reveal a necron, you actually cannot believe it.

Just thought I'd complicate matters a bit.

#EDIT# Oh and the Rhondda Donndra, or whatever the Eldar call it, the end battle where everyone dies, could actually be now, and its just a REALLY REALLY big battle.

rodmillard
30-05-2008, 01:08
I would love to see them move the plot forward, but I strongly suspect that this is just a rebranding of imperial history - rather than the valiant efforts of the Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Astartes saving humanity from its greatest threat (until the next one), humanity in the 41st millenium is being presented as the inevitable decline and fall of a moribund empire (ruled over by a literally moribund emperor...) With the xenos focussed timelines as well, it looks as if GW may have moved away from Sms as the ultimate poster boys, and be actually trying to encourage people to play other armies.

On the other hand, with the new (and heretical) units rumoured to be appearing in the marine codex - a skimmer transport for scouts? WTF? Where did the STC template for that come from?! - and the confirmed presence of a "Master of the Forge" marine HQ, you could interpret it as a distancing of the Astartes from the tech-priests, with all the schismatic goodness that involves...

Urza
30-05-2008, 09:28
The Golden Throne is Broken or Breaking
Exactly what it says on the tin, this might see the end of the Emperor. Note this will not 'bring forth the star child' becuase it got written out, because apparently having the Emperor as Jesus, Hitler, Buddha, the works was considered offensive.

The Star Child theory is that the death of the Emperor's physical body will allow his spirit to ascend to God-hood. This theory is still around. The Cult of the Star-Child was wiped out by the Inquisition in a small bit of fluff at the back of the 3rd Edition BGB, but this was more to show that the Human Race is its own worst enemy more than anything else.


The Blood Angels Will Fall To Chaos
The old favourite, there is talk about making them turn full time to chaos, although everyone who has been around for more than a millennium has a reason to go chaos, even ultramarines...

Doubtful. Marine players are precious to GW, and having such a popular Chapter turn renegade would upset a LOT of people.


Ultramarines Split from the Imperium
Thats right, you read it right. The idea was that the Ultramarines looked at the state of the Imperium and decided it wasn't what they signed up for, and decide to go off and make their own Imperium.

As above, but multiplied by a factor of about 100.


The Dragon Awakens
If the big global campaigns go badly, like really really badly, the Dragon on Mars will awaken to kick the **** of anyone who steps up, kind of like 'these are mine, naff off!'

This has been a rumour since the late days of 3rd Edition and the 13th Black Crusade. Its doubtful that GW would ever have such a significant event happen so close to Holy Terra.


Necrons in the Inquisition
This one is actually going on as we speak, for all of those of you who haven't read Xenology, do so! There are Necrons in the Inquisition! Actually working to help run the Imperium. When the guy pulls his face off to reveal a necron, you actually cannot believe it.

Xenology is a Black Library book, and therefore not 'official' GW canon. Its doubtful that they would ever make a major event out of this.


#EDIT# Oh and the Rhondda Donndra, or whatever the Eldar call it, the end battle where everyone dies, could actually be now, and its just a REALLY REALLY big battle.

Rana Dhandra is the final battle against Chaos, and can only occur when the Emperor dies and ascends to God-hood. At this point the remaining loyalist Primarchs are supposed to return to lead their Chapters against Chaos, with the Eldar as allies. This fluff is as old as the Star-Child fluff, and one cannot exist without the other.

Isoroku
30-05-2008, 12:50
Take of Post in Tauonline Calmsword posted

right, so i just thumbed through the new rule book and its going to rock the fluff world.

First and foremost- GW has specifically laid down that the Tau live 40-50 years as a norm and then experience a brief old age and die. It is emphasized repeatedly that the Tau are a driven and anxious race and this has been the reason for their dynamic expansion- there is no allusion to any other cause. It also mentions that it has been noted that certain Tau are known to attain much older years "As if their lifespans are linked to the manifest destiny of the race" Interesting right?

Right- now some nitty gritty and some information on the rest of the galaxy (they went all out with fluff and are fleshing out the universe)

-Myrandias is the closest Exodite world to the Tau Empire.

-The Third Sphere is no longer just an invasion through the northern 'gate' of the Empire (between Perdus and Gulf) but is now in all directions stretching out from a number of Septs. This is shattering as we no longer have a definitive path that the expansion is going- as it seems to be everywhere. The arrows indicate that they are making ground in the Rift! All fronts are being expanded and it even seems, although it doesn't' state it, that a tendril of the expansion is nearing the Enclaves- maybe we'll see something out of this since we were told Aun'shi went out there. Anyway, this push is being called the WARS OF EXPANSION (with Shadowsun in the north with the largest force).

-Hive Fleet Colossus is the Tyranid fleet that has been engaging the Tau Empire- it seems that its tendrils into the Empire were defeated by Shadowsun. (you can tell by the maps they show- its pretty detailed)

-NEW XV info- seems like there are a XV17 and XV26 model of suit that are built for maneuverability rather than firepower, meanwhile the XV 86 is called a 'integrated interface armor' which are the space capable model- don't know what this could mean, perhaps it is a suit that uses another suit?

-New Kroot worlds: Tawka and Seco in the middle and south of the Rift

-There is a definitive calender!!! Its so detailed and explains the number system (which hasn't been seen since a RT WD) in 995.M41 the Tau attack Ghola's Hope, an Imperial Shrine world. Two years later in 997 the 3rd Sphere officially begins and in 999 the 13th black crusade takes place (there is no mention of the Damocles Crusade or Medusa) so maybe the first is being moved and they have accepted that Medusa is still the first event in M42.

-Notable event: The Cytherian Annexation: Jungle world invaded by a large Bork'an force with some Fal'shian. Pathfinders were inserted five months before the invasion while landing zones were cleared by stealth suits. "Hammer head Armor Elimination Groups" are used to hit Imperial armor. Shas'O Alo'rra (cold Shadow (new word) Is in his first role as a 'O and is untested, he leads a daring attack as the Tau are being bogged down by jungle combat and proves his worth. There is still resistance on the world from Catachan 26th 51st 56th.

-Sept symbols are painted on chest circle of Firewarriors while they Sept coloring has been added to various parts of the armor, not just strips.

Things to know about the new timeline- well, the Imperium is literally falling apart and is now in the Age of the fall, or something, it seems that after the Age of Apostacy there were huge purgings for thousands of years. The Space Marines are being directed to take more of a direct control over worlds that are rebelling while the Macharian worlds had a recent and massive rebellion where it took 100 space marine chapters to quell. Meanwhile, Space Marines are being swayed by Huron Blackheart who is turning loyal marines to his piratical cause- they say its amazing how many loyal marines turn but this could be because the Imperium is falling apart. In addition, the AdMech have discovered irreperable damage to the Golden Throne while the Astronomicon is dimming to such a degree that contact can no longer be maintained with distant worlds like Macragge.

x-esiv-4c
30-05-2008, 12:55
Lets not forget that sales dictate fluff.

pookie
30-05-2008, 13:05
-Hive Fleet Colossus is the Tyranid fleet that has been engaging the Tau Empire- it seems that its tendrils into the Empire were defeated by Shadowsun. (you can tell by the maps they show- its pretty detailed)

Wasnt that a name of a prev hive fleet?

Sholto
30-05-2008, 13:07
It's a misprint; they meant "The Time of Lending", when mankind becomes very generous all of a sudden, and people let their neighbours use their lawnmowers, with a happy smile and a wink. It's a risky move for GW, but I think they can pull it off.

Sholto

DapperAnarchist
30-05-2008, 13:53
On the other hand, with the new (and heretical) units rumoured to be appearing in the marine codex - a skimmer transport for scouts? WTF? Where did the STC template for that come from?! - and the confirmed presence of a "Master of the Forge" marine HQ, you could interpret it as a distancing of the Astartes from the tech-priests, with all the schismatic goodness that involves...

However, where's the STC for Power Armour? There isn't one - as Power Armour was effectively invented by the Emperor, with the assistance of the AdMech. Beyond that, where's the STC for Reductors, or any of the equipment related to geneseeds? And, of course, there's no STC for the Crusader, or the Baal Pred. Also - Black Hawk Down games, anyone? Oh yeah.

LexxBomb
30-05-2008, 14:14
Xenology is a Black Library book, and therefore not 'official' GW canon. Its doubtful that they would ever make a major event out of this.

actually because BL is a subsiduary company anything they publish is canon.

Simon Sez
30-05-2008, 14:20
That Tau fluff sounds very nice, now how about my Necrons? Is there anything beyond "We're waking up"?

What is Huron selling? I doubt there are a ton of Space Marines who want to be Jack Sparrow so there must be something deeper than piracy that he's offering.

#The Emperor is dy-ING! The Emperor is dy-ING! The Emperor is dy-ING!#

Could this Scout Skimmer be using the construct off the Master of the Ravenwings speeder?

RadiO
30-05-2008, 22:26
If the High Lords wanted to bring back the Legions, wouldn't that really, really **** off the Ultramarines - considering their primarch was behind the splitting up of the legions in the first place, and wrote the Codex Astartes they pretty much rever as Holy Writ, which probably has forming a Space Marine Legion as Prohibited Action Numero Uno?

LexxBomb
31-05-2008, 06:30
the ultramarines atm don't take the codex as holy.
1. the tyranid veterans goes against the codex
2. the Guantlets of Ultramar are a heretical relic taken from a chaos champion.
3. Even though Ventris is bannished (until he comes home - his mission being successful) the ultramarines used uncodex tactics to take out a hive fleet.
4. the ultramarines have their own empire - no chapter is allowed an empire (its in the codex)
5. the honour guard is a company of marines formed from veterans of all the ultramarines second founding chapters and serves to maintain a command structure that enables the ultramarine legion to still work as a legion when desired.
6. when in battle in their own empire the Imperial guard take direct orders from the Space marine characters. under the codex they are not allowed to do so as this would be exactly like in the heresy with the imperial army.

Whitehorn
06-06-2008, 14:24
Pleaaaase let this be the time of wolves.

All Hail Leman Russ, the new Emperor.

Chaplain Dionitas
06-06-2008, 15:02
I'll be sleeping under the covers tonight. heebie jeebies incoming!

So what's Russ gonna look like when he returns? Is he gonna pull up on a chopped out Harley-Marine bike sporting a long greasy blonde mullet, a five day stubble and a beer-gut that rivals Ghazkull? That's the primarch I'll follow during the wolftime!

Whitehorn
06-06-2008, 15:10
Leman Russ already walks amongst us.

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Dog-Bounty-Hunter-tv-12.jpg

FashaTheDog
06-06-2008, 16:05
Lexxbomb, there's a proverb from antiquity that explains your whole rant about Ultramarine codex violations, "do as I say, not as I do."

Grimbad
06-06-2008, 20:38
Wasnt that a name of a prev hive fleet?

In the latest nid codex, it is the Imperial designation of an alien fleet of centauroid beings claiming to be escaped slaves of the tyranids. The fleet was believed to be destroyed. So basically, it's Tau vs. Zoats.

Coffee
07-06-2008, 20:47
The snippets about Ultramar shearing off from the Imperium, I see that possibility as one brought about by practicality and physical reality more than anything: The expansion of the Tau, as well as the Ork and other Xenos realms of Ultima Segmentum combined with the predations of two Tyranid Hivefleets and the weaking of the Astronomicon could effectively cut Ultramar off from the rest of the Imperium. The realm would still be carrying the torch of the Emperor, but would be on its own... and free from interference, for that matter.

As far as staying true to the Codex Astartes goes, the only things the Ultras have done explicitly in violation of it are the tactical innovations required to fight the Tyranids, and the following over-specialization of the Chapter's veterans. We know this because GW has told us these things went against the letter of the Codex. Since we don't have a full-text copy of the Codex Astartes available to us, we have to assume that everything else the Ultras do is sanctioned by the Codex, or at least not forbidden; I'd wager that the Codex allows Chapters some flexibility with regards to traditions, ceremony, and positions of honor. I think of it like a Fraternity, where each individual chapter follows a common set of ritual and traditions, but also has its own local traditions and events.

DarkMatter2
21-06-2008, 06:02
After having read through the store copy of the Rulebook, I want to give my impressions:

1. It isn't as dark as all that for us Imperial fanboys. My impression from the book is that the Time of Ending is merely a label for the current period - essentially the time in which humanity is assailed on all sides, the time of greatest difficulty. Nowhere in the book does it state that humanity is irrevocably doomed, however, with all the threats it currently faces, things aren't pretty.

The book made it clear that the Emperor is alive and quite conscious. It is His immense power that keeps the Warp separate from real space, and keeps reality itself from ultimate destruction. His physical body is dead, however He is still kept alive by His own force of will. The rulebook calls Him a living god.

The book offered the possibility that the current period is a prelude to humanity's psychic ascension as a race, which would lead to a new human golden age of dominance. As far as I recall, there was no mention of reincarnation of Big E.

2. I was impressed with the new artwork. The Craftworld artwork was amazing. Good stuff. I hope they keep that style.

3. The Necrons start to go crazy cause of all the phasing in and out. Lol.

Drachenfell
21-06-2008, 09:02
I have to say I always thought the Star child was a bit cheesey. Mainly as I kept getting images of the Emperor being reborn and a matrix like series of events afterwards. Which wasn't very appealing to me.

It'd be nice to see him just wake up as a god of the warp and materium. Rather than have to be reborn. Nothing beats the idea of ten thousand custodes all kneeling and the Emperor standing up in the throne before finally opening his eyes.

Bitchin.

Oh! Though the starchild fluff is old, the whole idea that the shamans could t reincarnate and as a result made the Emperor so they wouldn't have to is far older. Not to mention I prefer that idea.

It'll be interesting to see how GW interpret the end times.

LexxBomb
21-06-2008, 09:44
i thought the star child was the warp god the emp turns into when he dies.

Drachenfell
22-06-2008, 20:44
If memory serves, the starchild is what the Emperor is at the moment. As a small raft amid the tempest that is the warp. Sailing on it's currents and waiting for his time when his body will detach itself from the material world. At this point the Emperor will become a pure and un-adulterated god.

Some believe after this he will be reborn into physical form again.

However GW have for a little while now played down the Starchild theory. Though whether they retcon or carry it onward isn't really known. At least that's what I remember. Might be a little bit off. :P

Like above though I've always preferred the idea of the Emperor just standing up and beginning the ascension of mankind as well as continuing his 'great plan' for the eradication of chaos (Though I tend to be one of those that believe that even though he was always a man, that doesn't nescersarily keep him from being a god of the materium and the warp. As per the new man ideal. One of the books tells of a greater Daemon of Tzeentch calling the Emperor a god of both the Empyrean and Materium I think.)

But as for the above I'd like to see what happens with Macragge. Whether the Ultramarines succeed or begin a civil war against the High Lords. That I'd love to see. I can see them winning and then the reinstating of the Legions which would be awesome.

Blood angels changing to chaos? I just can't see it happening. Blood angel's though they have the flaw just have such a hate for chaos I would never imagine them succumbing to it. After all they gave their Primarch to halt it and stood on the walls of Terra at the siege. The Flesh Tearers however I could perhaps see turning to Khorne. But certainly not the entire chapter.

Even though we'll have to see how they choose to progress it. In any case I'm just glad to see the era of stagnation being moved forwrd. Though I love teh setitng 40k is. It's nice to see GW putting more effort into providing us fans with some awesome fluff, backstory and anticipation for what could be the end game.

Brother Siccarius
22-06-2008, 23:17
I like the way they're approaching the Background now. They aren't just sticking you in one area of the timeline and saying, "You're here, and this is all the really cool stuff that happened before then!" (Such as the Sabbat Crusade, the Heresy, ect.). They're opening it up and making it into slices of time, letting you pick and choose where you want your army to be and in what time and place you want to fight in.

It was a lot more...nebulous before. You had "now" and then you had "all the time before now". The timeline seems more structured now. This "Time of Ending" is just a title to give to the time we've been fighting in for close to a decade of real time. It also gives them the ability to continue the background if they want to without changing the armies, as they're opening up the earlier times as a main focus rather than just focusing on the end of the timeline.

An example of this is that if one race falls or changes significantly as the timeline advances, then you can still have them present and in codex form as you're not using the "Time of Ending" as the main focus anymore. Just an example of how the focus shift can effect the storytelling and advancement.

It also makes armies from earlier eras the norm rather than the exception however. Not that they wont continue to be exceptional, just that they won't be such an oddity as more and more people may choose earlier points in the timeline to base their armies in.

Scragglefoot
23-06-2008, 11:59
I remember the rumors that were flying about when it was changing to 3rd ed that incuded the blood angels move to chaos ( i even remember a red top telling my mate not to bother with blood angles unless he was willing to switch to chaos when the new ed comes out) but also had when the emp dies thats it he is dead. all the space marines go renagad more of a intersteller police force then massive armys it was all big change and it was all very exciting.

also personaly i think on the 25th birthday of the 40k uniniverse will be when it all kicks off thats in about 4 years isn't? so hopefully 6ed will see emp die and some hella cool changes to the armies styles

Scragglefoot

Urza
23-06-2008, 13:31
actually because BL is a subsiduary company anything they publish is canon.

'Actually' LexxBomb, you're incorrect. There are a vast number of inconsistencies between official GW fluff and what is printed by the Black Library, and it has therefore always been GW's stance that Black Library fiction is 'non-canon'. The only 'official' GW fluff and background is that which you find within the pages of it's own official rulebooks and codexes..

pookie
23-06-2008, 14:18
'Actually' LexxBomb, you're incorrect. There are a vast number of inconsistencies between official GW fluff and what is printed by the Black Library, and it has therefore always been GW's stance that Black Library fiction is 'non-canon'. The only 'official' GW fluff and background is that which you find within the pages of it's own official rulebooks and codexes..

not according to GW..... but lets not get into a 'canon' war eh, because that will just derail the thread.

Alessander
23-06-2008, 17:32
Canoncity is a dud subject, because GW "source" books now publish extracts from BL books, which leads to dumb statements like "Gaunts Ghosts Book X is totally non-canon, except for page 183 and the first sentence of page 184 because it was extracted in White Dwarf". GW is an open-source setting with lots of authors, just like Dragon Lance, StarWars or whatever, and there will inconsitancies. All the original 40K authors have long left GW, so if you want to be real preachy, there is no such thing as "Tau", and necrons are just robots found in space crusade boards.

Now, there is rumors of a new worldwide campaign in 2009 along with the Planetstrike rules called something like "Red Heresy" or "Red Crusade", which could mean anything from an Adeptus Mechanicus Schism on Mars, Blood Angels Turning Chaos, or Ghazkull conquering a forgeworld that manufactures nothing but red paint and thus paints every ork ship, vehicle, hulk and dim-witted grot red.

...We all know that worldwide campaigns do absolutely nothing for the storyline other than add a new paragraph at the end of the timelines. Game- changing storylines may only boost sales, but it may alienate veterans. When a new codex comes out, GW wants you to throw away EVERY model you already have in that race, and buy new ones from them. But GW has to cater to veterans and newbie players alike, which is why they allow models from older ranges (like older space marines) but always have new models for veterans to buy as well to add to their collections.

/rant

badnewsblair
23-06-2008, 20:20
* If you're waiting for your White Dwarf preview issue do not read *

In the most recent White Dwarf, take a look at the last two entries of timeline that runs across the main story.

The last entry talks about how severe and unrepairable damage to the Golden Throne have been discovered. I could be reading too much into it, but this definitely got the gears turning.

The story also has a really nice piece of art depicting the corpse of the Emperor on the Throne. Again, it could be just wishful thinking on my part, but I like it!

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
23-06-2008, 20:42
or Ghazkull conquering a forgeworld that manufactures nothing but red paint and thus paints every ork ship, vehicle, hulk and dim-witted grot red.

Images of fleet of foot grots now...

Alessander
27-06-2008, 18:32
* If you're waiting for your White Dwarf preview issue do not read *

The story also has a really nice piece of art depicting the corpse of the Emperor on the Throne. Again, it could be just wishful thinking on my part, but I like it!

Very first page of the new rulebook has this on large scale. Nice

Galvatron1701
27-06-2008, 19:01
A black and white copy of the picture showing the roting Emporer was in the 3rd edition rulebook. It might be the new colouring, but I don't remember his face having such a skeletal appearence.

And speaking as an Ultra player, I wouldn't mind if Ultramar split from the Imperium, they'd probably last a lot longer on their own and could act as a beacon for others (imagine Ultramar boasted by several other Ultramarine successor chapters).

Hrw-Amen
27-06-2008, 21:47
Very glad to see the timeline moving on a bit, it was very much needed in my opinion. I realise that the Imperium was pretty much an arrested culture but that does not mean time stands still.

I seam to recall something in one of the books somewhere about the emperour only realising his true potentila as a god when he finally is allowed to die. So the possibilities are endless.

Cannot see that it will mean the end of humnaity though as there are just too many of them out there on too many worlds. I also cannot see it being the end of intersteller space travel totally. After all the Tau manage it, admittedly only in small jumps but within a particular subsector it would still be possible if taken a system at a time. Admittedly slower but still possible.

From my perspective I would like to see some aliances forged with 'friendly' xenos. I know that may sound like heresy, but it has been done on small scales in the past when needs must. It seams from what i read that the Ultrmarines are not that obverse to fighting along the Tau when it suits them as I am sure that if the astronomicum failed they are not that daft as to not see the advantages of an alliance with a technically minded race that may given the speed of its evolution be able to come up with a more techology based method of warp travel. (It could be a bit like in Stargate where every earth ship has one of those funny little gray aliens on it. They could have a Tau scientist rather than a navigator or something.)

There must be some sort of presidence for alien aliances right from the outset of the emperor's crusade, after all in the HH Fulgrin book thereis talk that the council of Terra was considering the Laer be made a vassel race or something like that, before of course the Emperors Children ignored that and wiped them out.

I like the idea of a rift with the mechanicum. The talk of a fault with the golden throne could be interesting in itself. Maybe elements on Mars have instigated this seeing that the Imperium is stagnated and that other races are beginning to outstrip them. Perhaps they are trying to force the empire to change?

I guess only those at GW know, if they in fact do know? Maybe they are reading these threads right now trying to gauge opinion of what people want to see, what will sell the most, what will be most outragous and shocking and all that.

We will have to just wait and see.

Duncan.

Isoroku
27-06-2008, 21:57
The Jumps by Inmaterium far from impossible before the emperor reign, The adeptvs Mecanicus send Scouts fleets who were the basis of many Forge worlds of today and there was no Astronomicon or anything that guided many ships were lost but the Mecanicus followed by sending even without knowing if something had achieved