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ORKY ARD BOYZ
26-05-2008, 08:10
Hello

If the orks can make things work simply by imagining them to work, couldn't an ork move a world simply because he believes he can? Or if a world of swarming with orks all believed they could move a world would their combined psychic powers allow them to move a planet?

Francis29
26-05-2008, 08:13
i don't think they're that powerful, maybe if there was enough orks they could but thats a lot of orks.

Orkbert
26-05-2008, 09:46
They might be able to but basically they just don't think about it.

Although, on the other hand, their way of interstellar travel (apart from using captured empire vessels) seemingly indicate that they do so unconsciously:
step1: a Hulk appears in an ork held system
step2: the Orks mount it en masse
step3: the Hulk then enters warp again and re-emerges at a world with stuff to krump/chop/slug/whatever :D
(To make a short summarize)
Now given that the Hulks should move just randomly through warp and space, step1 and 3 would both be very unlikely; as an example for step3, for every Hulk that appears at some world which can put up some defense/a good fight against a Waagh there should be dozens, if not hundreds of Hulks which ended up in Systems without inhabitated planets (as the 40K Galaxy, despite the size of the Empire of Man and all Xenos bumbling around still consists mainly of uninhabitated systems)
Although admittedly the Weirdboys already can help in the directing of the Hulk I'd say it's with the unconscious help of all Boyz that make the big Bugger move in the right direction (in the Warp, in normal space they can help it with nice, big orky thrusters and stuff :evilgrin: )

Famder
26-05-2008, 10:28
Orks don't make things work based on psychic ability. This is the imperial perspective on Ork technology because they don't understand how it works. In the report where the "Psychic Theory" of ork technology appears the logic is this "We don't think this weapon should work, when we try to use the weapon it doesn't work. So obviously the Orks will it to work."

Even if it were true the reason why Orks don't use their innate psychic abilities in that way is two fold. Firstly they aren't that strong and can only effect things close to them. Second they need to have it proven through observation to justify their belief that it should happen.

@Orkbert: You are ignoring the fact that Orks retrofit the Hulks that they capture, equipping them with engines and what not to help guide them. And as you already stated, Weirdboyz are used to navigate through the warp, usually requiring dozens.

Iracundus
26-05-2008, 15:55
Orks don't make things work based on psychic ability. This is the imperial perspective on Ork technology because they don't understand how it works. In the report where the "Psychic Theory" of ork technology appears the logic is this "We don't think this weapon should work, when we try to use the weapon it doesn't work. So obviously the Orks will it to work."

Correct. That was just an in-character theory on Ork weapons. The fact human Armageddon Ork Hunters can get Ork weapons to work suggests the theory is mistaken as human psychic abilities are still uncommon and rare, even if Orks have unconscious ability. If it were purely based on psychics, those human Ork Hunters would have just had nonfunctioning slabs of junk.

DantesInferno
26-05-2008, 22:42
Correct. That was just an in-character theory on Ork weapons. The fact human Armageddon Ork Hunters can get Ork weapons to work suggests the theory is mistaken as human psychic abilities are still uncommon and rare, even if Orks have unconscious ability. If it were purely based on psychics, those human Ork Hunters would have just had nonfunctioning slabs of junk.

I don't think anyone (even Anzion) is suggesting that the only reason that Ork weaponry works is due to the Orks' unconscious psychic abilities, rather that it is a reason.

As such, the abilities of the Ork Hunters to use Orky wargear does not disprove the theory all on its own. What would be useful would be to know how the rates of weaponry malfunction compare among the Ork Hunters to the Orks themselves (taking into account the Orks' better familiarity with their own weapons, of course).

In any case, the fact that the Orks were (almost certainly) created by the Old Ones during the War in Heaven gives a certain amount of credence to Anzion's theory, given the amount of fiddling the Old Ones were doing at the time in making psychic warrior races.

Iracundus
27-05-2008, 05:06
In any case, the fact that the Orks were (almost certainly) created by the Old Ones during the War in Heaven gives a certain amount of credence to Anzion's theory, given the amount of fiddling the Old Ones were doing at the time in making psychic warrior races.

The Orks' origin does not add any credence WHATSOEVER to Anzion. The Orks already have Weirdboyz drawing their power off the latent emissions of the normal Orks. That is already evidence of their psychic ability. Meanwhile the rest of their tinkering by the Old Ones involved their specialist knowledge encoding to create the various Oddboyz. The Orks do have a working knowledge of technology, just that they are not able to consciously articulate it. In fact, it is canonical that their knowledge of force fields is some of the most advanced in the galaxy and exceeds even the Eldar.

DantesInferno
27-05-2008, 12:40
The Orks' origin does not add any credence WHATSOEVER to Anzion. The Orks already have Weirdboyz drawing their power off the latent emissions of the normal Orks. That is already evidence of their psychic ability.

Anzion's theory states roughly that the Orks utilise some measure of latent, unconscious psychic power in the operation of some of their technology.

I would have thought it was fairly uncontroversial that this theory becomes at least a bit more likely with the revelation that the Orks were created by the Old Ones during the War in Heaven, when the Old Ones created other races that were strongly psychic (eg Eldar), and some races which had innate gifts for technology (eg Jokaero). Of course the theory isn't proved, confirmed, or anything like that. But it's at least a bit more plausible.


Meanwhile the rest of their tinkering by the Old Ones involved their specialist knowledge encoding to create the various Oddboyz. The Orks do have a working knowledge of technology, just that they are not able to consciously articulate it. In fact, it is canonical that their knowledge of force fields is some of the most advanced in the galaxy and exceeds even the Eldar.

Yeah, sure. There's nothing to stop a bit of unconscious psychic grease helping too, though.

Iracundus
27-05-2008, 14:00
Anzion's theory states roughly that the Orks utilise some measure of latent, unconscious psychic power in the operation of some of their technology.

I would have thought it was fairly uncontroversial that this theory becomes at least a bit more likely with the revelation that the Orks were created by the Old Ones during the War in Heaven, when the Old Ones created other races that were strongly psychic (eg Eldar), and some races which had innate gifts for technology (eg Jokaero). Of course the theory isn't proved, confirmed, or anything like that. But it's at least a bit more plausible.



There isn't any reason it should become more plausible just because the Old Ones engineered them when in the past it has been abundantly shown the Orks use technology just like any other race, just subconsciously. The Eldar were engineered to be more powerful psychically. The Krork were engineered to be a stopgap measure, for cannon fodder, and as a survivor race. The Eldar use conventional technology such as lasers and plasma. There isn't any reason to invoke magic handwaving with the Orks.

Famder
28-05-2008, 01:24
I would have thought it was fairly uncontroversial that this theory becomes at least a bit more likely with the revelation that the Orks were created by the Old Ones during the War in Heaven, when the Old Ones created other races that were strongly psychic (eg Eldar), and some races which had innate gifts for technology (eg Jokaero). Of course the theory isn't proved, confirmed, or anything like that. But it's at least a bit more plausible.
By this logic the Eldar tech should be primarily psychic in its nature, after all the Old Ones made them far more reliant on their psychic powers.


Anzion's theory states roughly that the Orks utilise some measure of latent, unconscious psychic power in the operation of some of their technology.
Imperial theory also says that a machine spirit operates all machines. There is no evidence that ork psychic ability plays a role in ork technology, the only thing backing up Anzion's theory is a correlation. This correlation has many explanations, one for example is that they just retreived the gun from an ork that just took a bolter round to the chest, and the gun also got damaged. I'm sure not every bolter works after the battle is over either.

SlaughterSong
28-05-2008, 04:19
why do the red ones ALWAYS go faster then? lol

DantesInferno
28-05-2008, 10:22
There isn't any reason it should become more plausible just because the Old Ones engineered them when in the past it has been abundantly shown the Orks use technology just like any other race, just subconsciously. The Eldar were engineered to be more powerful psychically. The Krork were engineered to be a stopgap measure, for cannon fodder, and as a survivor race.

What better ability for a survivor race than to have powerful latent psychic abilities to manipulate their ramshackle technology?


There isn't any reason to invoke magic handwaving with the Orks.

Well, it's a way of explaining how their apparently unsophisticated technology is surprisingly reliable and effective. In addition, of course, to other explanations working alongside.


By this logic the Eldar tech should be primarily psychic in its nature, after all the Old Ones made them far more reliant on their psychic powers.

A lot of Eldar technology is psychic in nature. Wraithbone, for instance?


Imperial theory also says that a machine spirit operates all machines. There is no evidence that ork psychic ability plays a role in ork technology, the only thing backing up Anzion's theory is a correlation. This correlation has many explanations, one for example is that they just retreived the gun from an ork that just took a bolter round to the chest, and the gun also got damaged. I'm sure not every bolter works after the battle is over either.

Yes, of course. As I said before, no one is suggesting that the only reason that Ork weaponry works is due to the Orks' unconscious psychic abilities, merely that it is a reason. There may well be other explanations that operate alongside, but that in itself doesn't show that Ork psychic activity has nothing to do with the functioning of their technology.

malika
28-05-2008, 10:42
why do the red ones ALWAYS go faster then? lol

The 3rd edition Codex already mentioned this, it is mainly due to the fact that Meks probably put other fuel or a different kind of engine in that vehicle. Other Orks however do not notice this and simply believe that the vehicle goes faster due to the red paint.

Faustburg
28-05-2008, 10:43
why do the red ones ALWAYS go faster then? lol

Because the fast vehicles are painted red... The owner leaves his buggy at the meks for a coat of red paint, and the Mek will tinker with the engine wile the paint dries.

Edit: Ninja'ed by Malika :p