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View Full Version : Poll: which race needs a new codex most?



Brucopeloso
27-05-2008, 15:02
I'd like to know your opinion on which codexes should be done after 5th ed is released.

Creeping_Death
27-05-2008, 15:08
yea I'd go for necrons too

Edit: Thought this was a poll? :P

Koryphaus
27-05-2008, 15:09
The thread has been open for 6 minutes and no-one has mentioned Dark Eldar until now? That's gotta be a record...

I take it there's a lot of sigs you don't like much then Stuth!?

camz1994
27-05-2008, 15:13
Squats.

But seriously Dark Eldar and Necrons

Drogmir
27-05-2008, 15:13
Well who needs it and who wants it are different matters.

I think the fight goes between Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard and Necrons

Lord Damocles
27-05-2008, 15:13
Necrons :chrome:

The change to the vehicle damage table is going to hurt the tin men bad.

Ravenheart
27-05-2008, 15:14
Necrons. Very few choices to begin with and some very unattractive at top of that.



he thread has been open for 6 minutes and no-one has mentioned Dark Eldar until now?

Dark...who? Dark Elves? That's a fantasy army!


:p

incarna
27-05-2008, 15:29
1. Dark Eldar
2. Necrons
3. Imperial Guard
4. Tyranids
5. Tau

theHandofGork
27-05-2008, 15:40
No one for LatD?

Dais
27-05-2008, 15:46
dark eldar, necrons, inquisition, and guard are all using 3ed codexes. after that, tau and tyranids are the earliest 4ed codexes. after the marine codex all the other chapters will need a heavy faq but when they are to the point gw gives rules away in WD i dont think the other chapters are even on the radar for full codexes for a little while.

Count de Monet
27-05-2008, 15:50
No one for LatD?

Me! :p

LatD, which should be developed at the same time as IG to keep them consistent where appropriate.

Daemonhunters, make them fit better w/new Daemons.

Dark Eldar

max the dog
27-05-2008, 15:56
1. Dark Eldar; How long has it been!!!!
2. Tyranids; The rending nerf hurt them massively and made zilla lists almost mandatory.
3. Necrons; Boring army, more unit choices are desperately needed.

The rest of the armies are fine. I may change my mind once 5th edition hits and I've played it a while.

Champsguy
27-05-2008, 15:58
Well, it really depends on what rules change for 5th. We have yet to get in real game experience (other than "yeah, some guys at GW stores say they've played it), so we don't know exactly how the new system will function. The army that needs a new codex the most will be the one that becomes almost unplayable in 5th. I am not convinced that Necrons or Dark Eldar will be effected enough by the rules so that they will need a new codex NOW. I think they will still be able to field competitive lists, and so they will keep for a while (Dark Eldar have managed okay so far -- they need to be redone totally more than they need something out right now).

My guess would be Imperial Guard. They seem a more "core" army, rather than Dark Eldar (who have like 4 players total) or Necrons, both of which seem like niche lists. Guard can still build effective 4th edition armies, but with their very regimented structure, I am not sure if they will work in a 5th edition rules environment.

Gen.Steiner
27-05-2008, 16:10
Dark Eldar. They got their codex in 1998 or 1999...! :eek:

The Guard are getting theirs early 2009 so that's alright. :)

MemphisMark
27-05-2008, 16:13
Witch Hunters. I like my Sisters and want them updated.

bassmasterliam
27-05-2008, 16:15
IMPERIAL GUARD! does no one care for the average human soldier these days.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
27-05-2008, 16:19
Space wolves for the love of pete! seriously though older than necrons, older than Dark Eldar, older than Lost and the damned, using an older codex than guard - anybody in more need, or have better cause for need?

Bregalad
27-05-2008, 16:24
No poll here?

Alpharius
27-05-2008, 16:26
Necrons?

Couldn't we just retcon out the greatest of all retconned races instead?

Seriously though, if we're going by time/need/etc., it has got to be the Dark Eldar, right?

Tonberry
27-05-2008, 16:37
Well, at least Dark Eldar can be semi-competative with Webway lists/ Dark Lance spam, whereas Guard are just bad, especially in points cost comparisons with newer codices(yes, I'm looking at you, Ork Boyz).

Goq Gar
27-05-2008, 16:38
Dark Eldar.

Come on, they deserve it.

Arandmoor
27-05-2008, 16:39
Dark Eldar, Necrons, Imperial Guard, Inquisition

...in that order.

It honestly pains me to think we're getting another marine codex this soon. While it might just be a holdover codex for dark eldar (something they can just quickly throw together without too much effort to buy themselves time), the Space Wolves rumor really annoys me. Two space marines releases in a row with as many SM releases as we've had over the last 6 years is too much IMO.

The only up side I can see is that, assuming Blood Angels don't get a new codex like I've heard they might not means the line-up would be nothing but xenos for quite some time unless they try to re-release BT/DA again (something which could very well get me to tell GW where to stick it).

Hicks
27-05-2008, 16:44
I want to say guards because they are my favorite, but it's really the daemon hunters that need a book and quick. It's so out of date, it's as if you're not playing the same game as the opposite player. Also, contrarly to the IG or DE, the army the army is extremely weak.

brain_dead_1st
27-05-2008, 17:04
Nids , guard, inquisition/witchhunters
Dark eldar are SUPREME, re releasing them is a fail fail fail!!! (look at a witch army, talk about beardy!!!)

TheDarkDuke
27-05-2008, 17:05
1. Dark Eldar
2. Necrons
3. Imperial Guard
4. Tyranids
5. Tau

Wow Nids and Tau over WH, DH? Heck even SW are in a bigger need IMO...

For me:
1. Dark Eldar
2. Necron
3. Imperial Gaurd
4. Inquisition combo book?
5. Space Wolves

druchii
27-05-2008, 17:10
Space Wolves.

After than then you can have your Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard. The SWs and DE need it because they've just got old as dust codexes. Guard need it because, well, guard need some serious help. I mean, come on. A chimera is double the points of a rhino without any upgrades. Double.

Gimmie real rules for storm caller. Dark Eldar raiders with rapid fire weapons... :wtf:

d

Lordsaradain
27-05-2008, 17:13
Lost and the Damned PLEASE!
And Dark Eldar of course.
Make that Daemon Hunters too.

40kdhs
27-05-2008, 18:07
Daemonhunters should be priority one because it's the weakest and the most outdated codex.

Kettu
27-05-2008, 18:09
Well, after SM and SW is rumoured to be IG. (but still not hide nor hair of the DE)

So, in order:

Dark Eldar
Necrons
Sisters of Battle
Inquisition

Tau and Tyranids don't really need an update all that soon.

DarkMatter2
27-05-2008, 18:14
Dark Eldar > IG > Necrons

Champsguy
27-05-2008, 19:06
I don't have any problem with a new Space Wolf dex being released before IG or DE. The Space Wolves should be relatively easy to do, and given the extensive work that goes into a new edition, GW needs a "no-brainer" codex they can put out.

I see each of the races this way in terms of when they need a new codex, from first to last (giving allowance, of course, for changes if specific 5th ed rules neuter one particular army):

SM -- The most important. This is the codex against which all others are judged. It is the most common army and needs to be made 5th ed compatable ASAP. This will bring more balance to the game than any other. It must be first priority.

IG -- A very common army with an old set of rules, IG need an update. The cost of Chimeras and other equipment is not as important as some think, because IG are not priced the same as other armies. Despite being "overpriced", IG can still be fielded effectively in 4th due to the tremendous numbers of squads and weapons they can bring to bear. I do not think a Chimera will drop below 50 points, nor will heavy weapons drop below Marine costs, as GW uses a different calculation for point costs when it comes to IG. However, the rumored 5th ed rules could require a big revamp to make guard competitive (kill points, etc). I think the 5th ed changes will affect IG the most, so they need a revamp. They are higher on this list than other armies because they are more popular.

SW -- Significant changes to the original SM codex requires reworking the SW dex. Yes, yes, I know, "another SM book! Waaahhh! :cries:" But the SW are still operating out of one of the old mini-books. They need a consolidated rules set.

DE -- Along with SW, DE are in need of a revamp "the most" because they have the oldest rules. However, Dark Eldar players are rarer than hen's teeth, so their need is pushed back. You may as well say that Squats need an update, given how few players they have. You must also understand that this is DE's last chance. If this new model line and new codex fails to make them popular, they will be dumped. Thus, it is more important that GW "do it right" than that they "do it now".

Necrons/Nids/Tau -- Strong 4th ed lists that are relatively popular. 5th ed will make a number of their normal builds less effective. However, I think all of them will still have enough strengths that they can stand until they get replaced in due time.

DH/WH -- They need a new codex, but they are nearly the lowest priority, simply because most people don't play them. They are a very rare army. Their model range is gorgeous, though they are all in metal.

wolfbyte2586
27-05-2008, 19:09
DE -- Along with SW, DE are in need of a revamp "the most" because they have the oldest rules. However, Dark Eldar players are rarer than hen's teeth, so their need is pushed back. You may as well say that Squats need an update, given how few players they have. You must also understand that this is DE's last chance. If this new model line and new codex fails to make them popular, they will be dumped. Thus, it is more important that GW "do it right" than that they "do it now".

DH/WH -- They need a new codex, but they are nearly the lowest priority, simply because most people don't play them. They are a very rare army. Their model range is gorgeous, though they are all in metal.

You do realize that noone plays DE 1) because the rules are so old, and 2) the models are Direct Order only and cant be easily purchased at Brick and Mortar stores right? the fact that noone plays them is irrelevant to when they should be released, as a new codex that is solid and draws people in would generate more interest in players. Having said that, i believe they are effective enough that they dont need a redo right away either, just for different reasons.

As to waiting on DH/WH because noone plays them, again its because their Codexes are pretty horrendous and their whole range is Metal that noone really plays them. A Redone codex with some new (plastic) models would again generate new interest and draw more players into the army.

Anyway, heres my order assuming the rumors of Space Wolves coming out end of this year are true (if not id put them after IG and before Inquisition):

1. Imperial Guard
2. Inquisition (imo should be one combined book but yeah)
3. Necrons
4. Dark Eldar

Guard quite frankly need the work the most. They just dont work right now. Inquisition should be combined into one book and redone, as GK work almost as badly as IG, and Sisters (while effective) are fairly old. Then Necrons, who need the redo to handle tanks again and give more options (particularly another Troop unit option and fixing some of the useless options, like Pariahs). Then Dark Eldar, who can be played very effectively right now, but are too old and need to be brought in line with current game design thinking. Then they can get back to all the 4th Ed codexes like Nids, Tau, etc.

Ambu
27-05-2008, 19:30
Been out of the game for a while but seeing that not too much was updated since my absence I would say Dark Eldar, c'mon these guys need a SERIOUS work over as in I have NEVER seen anyone lose to these guys. Not before I left the game and not since my return.

When they first came out, there was an out-surge of people playing them and then the race for the most part died out because no one wanted to play them because they were seriously lacking.

What they should do (depending how well they are fleshed out in the new hand book) is:

1) DE
2) Necrons
3) IG
4) Tau

That being said, what will probably happen is the following as codex releases go:

1) Space Marines ~ generic(since they are the most played)
2) Orcs (another highly played race and the reported second race in box set)
3) IG
4) Chaos
5) Eldar

Basically saying this because they are the older races and there is more fan support for them. Also filtered through that will be several of the Marine Chapter Codexes. Not saying that will happen for sure because I been out for awhile, but that seems to be the trend.

What I would like to see is Chapter specific codexes on the Chaos side including chapters only breifly mentioned in other codexes like Fallen Angels, etc....

SirSnipes
27-05-2008, 19:33
im gonna say dark eldar and impy guard any army that stilluses the buy by swuad andnotby model rlesis TOO old crons were done pretty well, just some tuning(lith clarifications, priah update) but thats all i play crons andfind them to be ok but far better off than DE and IG

The Laughing God
27-05-2008, 19:38
Dark Eldar have to be the army that needs it the most!

40kdhs
27-05-2008, 19:42
DH/WH -- They need a new codex, but they are nearly the lowest priority, simply because most people don't play them.


Perhaps, GW needs to do a better job at writing codex.

Lord Inquisitor
27-05-2008, 19:45
Alienhunters! Hey, everyone else has a Codex...

I think I'd agree that Space Marines are pretty important (boo!). The old Codex is horribly min-max-able and a Dark Angelesque Codex is really very sorely needed.

LatD for sure! Another example of a fairly common army with no Codex.



DH/WH -- They need a new codex, but they are nearly the lowest priority, simply because most people don't play them. They are a very rare army. Their model range is gorgeous, though they are all in metal.
Many people don't play them? At the last 40K tournie I went to, there were I think 4 sisters armies and one person using Inquisitorial allies. That was 1 in 5 people using that codex! And that's not counting my Inquisitorial troops as I was using my Chaos at the time.


That being said, what will probably happen is the following as codex releases go:

1) Space Marines ~ generic(since they are the most played)
2) Orcs (another highly played race and the reported second race in box set)
3) IG
4) Chaos
5) Eldar
Ouch, that's pessimistic!

I would assume that Orks and Chaos have a reasonable wait. Their Codexes are both extremely new.

Son of Makuta
27-05-2008, 19:54
Ork codex is 5th ed compatible, as far as I know. Same with Chaos more or less.

Nids and Tau will need rewrites in 5th ed. New morale rules make Tau horrifically vulnerable and the new ruleset turns Codex: Tyranids upside down. However Necrons, Dark Eldar, Guard and the Inquisition are all on their knees begging for an update...

For the Emperor's sake... please GW pretty please... forget Space Wolves. Do a Blood Angels and pawn 'em off with a White Dwarf list, just enough to trim off all of the stupid bits, cheese, and irritating upgrades they have at the moment, and get on with REAL CODEXES.

My rather passionate 2p. ;)

x-esiv-4c
27-05-2008, 19:58
LatD need some serious loving.

Lord Inquisitor
27-05-2008, 20:00
LatD need some serious loving.
Although it should be noted that mutie-loving is potentially dangerous and not for everyone.

Vaktathi
27-05-2008, 20:03
mmm...its hard to pick a single faction.

I'd say INQ and Imperial Guard.

Bob Hunk
27-05-2008, 20:07
Orks! To have to wait nearly a decade for a new codex is...just...a... oh, wait, we've just had one. Sorry, force of habit with these threads! ;)

Joking aside, Dark Eldar. They've waited patiently for a long time now, and it's only fair. :cool:

weissengel86
27-05-2008, 20:09
people seem to post what they want rather then what codexes need to be upgraded first. The priority is dark eldar and then Inquisition either combined or seperate as they are the most out of date. Daemonhunters in particular have abilities that literally mean nothing now such as instability for daemons and that daemon packs or daemon beast packs no longer exist. dark eldar have the oldest codex so should be first. Imperial guard should be third and necrons 4th i have the necron codex and i see very little reason why it should be high priority as it works perfectly fine with no abilities that no longer work it has some problems (at least according to some) but nothing bad enough to warrant placing it a higher priority than DH/WH and dark eldar. Any race with a fourth edition codex such as eldar tau orks should be very low priority as they actually have updated armies

edit: armies that would be new such as LatD, squats, or whoever should be the lowest priority of all as GW needs to update the armies they currently have now much more then they need a new army

LokkoRex
27-05-2008, 20:16
1. Dark eldar(they REALLY need an update)
2. Necrons
3. Imperial guard
4. Inquisition(ALL troops are in metal, seriously)

Dark eldar are put first since they have the oldest codex around, Necrons because they are the second oldest and so on.

40kdhs
27-05-2008, 20:36
Should we update an codex because it's weak so that it can be balance.??

Dwarf Supreme
27-05-2008, 20:38
I vote for Squats.

LokkoRex
27-05-2008, 20:41
ok, changed my mind:

1. Dark eldar
2. Inquisition
3. Imperial Guard
4. Necrons

wolvenblade
27-05-2008, 20:42
1.Spacewolves-They won't even be usable after the sm codex comes out.
2.Dark Eldar-About as old as the wolves but are still usable.
3.Necrons-Desperate redo needed because of 5th edition glancing chart
4.Guard-just cause they will suck
5.Tyranids-vehicle problems

Wolf Sgt Kirke
27-05-2008, 21:46
For the Emperor's sake... please GW pretty please... forget Space Wolves. Do a Blood Angels and pawn 'em off with a White Dwarf list, just enough to trim off all of the stupid bits, cheese, and irritating upgrades they have at the moment, and get on with REAL CODEXES.

My rather passionate 2p. ;)

i'm sorry, but really?:eyebrows: one of the oldest and most iconic chapters? Bad enough that the poor blood angels got short changed with such an off hand effort, but do so to another long term staple would be unthinkable - what else would this lead to? both chapters going the way of the squats? i feel that one of the other retconned, newbie races, if anyone should suffer this poor treatment, not that i support that course of action.

I can only hope no-one in the games development team reads this thread, still, bearing in mind what they turf out, i reckon i'll be safe on that one.

My equally passionate 2 pence. :p

DrDoom
27-05-2008, 21:59
Dark Eldar, followed by Necrons then Tyranids.

Sidstyler
27-05-2008, 22:20
You do realize that noone plays DE 1) because the rules are so old, and 2) the models are Direct Order only and cant be easily purchased at Brick and Mortar stores right? the fact that noone plays them is irrelevant to when they should be released, as a new codex that is solid and draws people in would generate more interest in players.

I think most people just choose not to acknowledge this. Because I doubt most people are that dense that they don't realize what they're saying.

"No one plays Dark Eldar, why an update?!"

...gee, why do you think no one PLAYS THEM?! Would you dump the ludicrous amount of cash GW asks for on an army that gets so little support?

the1stpip
27-05-2008, 22:38
While Dark Eldar are in need of a new book, I do not want a new book. I am very happy with the codex, even if it means that certain units never get used.

This is the list I would release them in.

1 Daemon Hunters
2 Necrons
3 Imperial Guard
4 Dark Eldar

Orcboy_Phil
28-05-2008, 00:25
Dark Eldar, Tyranids and =I=. Combine =I= into one book thougth and get rid of the allies system. Chaos can't have it nor should the Imperium.

Gensuke626
28-05-2008, 00:33
I think the two most desperately in need of a new dex are Dark Eldar and Necrons.

Dark Eldar because the Learning curve is so steep that many people choose to not play them. and they need to improve the fluff

Necrons because they're boring as hell with less choices than a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.

Plastic Parody
28-05-2008, 00:57
Witch Hunters. I like my Sisters and want them updated.

I selfishly agree

The army to go longest with out a new dex would have to be Space Wolves - shock horror a marine army with a god knows how old a dex??

Though I think the Dark Eldar are better redone. The necron dex while boring is fairly robust so probably isnt on the priority list.

Hellebore
28-05-2008, 01:11
Space wolves for the love of pete! seriously though older than necrons, older than Dark Eldar, older than Lost and the damned, using an older codex than guard - anybody in more need, or have better cause for need?

The dark eldar 'update' doesn't really qualify as making it new, so it's still the oldest codex around. Adding a few wargear items and a list of vehicle upgrades (something every race has except the DE!? They needed a WD to actually GET them :eyebrows:).

If you want to argue that it makes the DE codex newer, well the 13th wulfen army added a whole new Space wolf list, so the space wolves are still no the oldest.

Considering my rather sizeable wulfen and space wolf armies, I still think the DE deserve their codex first.

Hellebore

Bloodknight
28-05-2008, 01:40
I'd put the Space Wolves first because of their fiddly armoury which is a PITA to keep in mind as an opponent (1 pt wargear items...), then the Imperial Guard for their overall weak - and dare I say boring - codex (I say boring because it leads to boring lists. At the moment one ironically hamstrings himself if one uses the Imperial stuff in the Imperial codex - preachers, psykers, abhumans, techpriests, all crap), then either Necrons or Dark Eldar, both not because of weak rules - neither have weak rules - but because of the boredom their codices cause; the Necron one with its very limited choices and the DE one with its limited choices caused by the rest being utterly unplayable crap.

Chem-Dog
28-05-2008, 01:57
The Guard are getting theirs early 2009 so that's alright. :)

Yes it is :D Only 7-8 months left to wait :D :D

I'd say the race that MOST needs it is the Dark Eldar, they are still technically running an edition 3 army coming into the 5th edition, I'd rather see them done well instead of rushed out though.

Necrons probably need a fairly large overhaul, in the years since it's release the same complaint themes have cropped up, you know - Necron Warrior Overloads - Lord with Orb - Monolith - Pariah's are crap ect ect these things will probably need addressing in a very serious way in the new edition.

weissengel86
28-05-2008, 01:59
Can someone explain why necrons should be before the inquisition? the daemonhunters actually have rules that do not work the necrons have a fully capable army and i personally do not find them boring either. The necrons should be after guard dark eldar and inquisition. the space wolves should have something like the blood angels have a codex from white dwarf the last thing we need is more space marine codexes then there are codexes of all the other races combined. even though I love space marines (black templars rock) I see no reason to have 4 or 5 codexes of the exact same race when we have several codexes of other races that are out of date. Space wolves should be the lowest priority of all the codexes

Gensuke626
28-05-2008, 02:13
Can someone explain why necrons should be before the inquisition? the daemonhunters actually have rules that do not work the necrons have a fully capable army and i personally do not find them boring either.

It's a matter of oppinion. May people, both Necron players and people who fight them, claim that the army is boring, inflexible and has it's share of flaws.

The Inquisition army needs to be looked at, for sure, but I see many more Necron players than Demon and Witch hunter players combined. It is my belief that GW never intended the Inquisition to be a stand alone army but gave players that option in case they wanted to go that route, where as the Necrons were meant to stand without allies...

Mr.terminatorbob
28-05-2008, 02:24
The imperial guard or Inqusition. The Dark Eldar, they need a model update. They got some ***** figures.

killa kan kaus
28-05-2008, 04:03
1.Dark Eldar - its sad really
2.Imperial Guard - no longer competitive
3.Necrons - parts are broken, parts are nerfed, some is boring, imo
3. Inquisition - combine or not just something
5. Tau
6. Nids
Space wolves are space marines not a race.

Eternal Marine
28-05-2008, 04:08
Necrons may be old, but they can still hold thier own (they seem to win a LOT more then they loose). I vote for Space Wolves, as they are already badly outdated for 4th Ed, much less then 5th Ed. (That and I may be slightly biased towards the Space Marines.)

Dark Eldar?? Someone actually plays with these?? :)

Spectral Dragon
28-05-2008, 05:02
I am not going to mention any codexes that we allready know are getting an update since, well, we know they are getting an update :) This leaves out Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, and Imperial Guard. After those, both inquisition armies, and then necrons would be my vote.

I'm looking forward to see Space Wolves and Dark Eldar come out because then I will see more variety of armies :)

Kissaholic
28-05-2008, 05:37
chaos......

fwacho
28-05-2008, 06:11
1. Dark Eldar... and new models too.
2. Tau.. unless they have a very thorough FAQ when 5th comes out.
3. IG... serious points value issues.
4. Necrons... pariahs need points fix, fayed ones need troops option, monolith need to be more expensive.

Mojaco
28-05-2008, 07:46
1. Dark Eldar
2. Necrons
3. Imperial Guard
4. Tyranids
5. Tau

This list is perfect imo. Tyranids needs cheaper gaunts above all (or without number included in cost). 10 pts for a hormagaunt? No thanks.

Promethius
28-05-2008, 08:02
I would go for:

1.IG (no longer competitive)
2.DE (have waited for so long I would rather see them done right than rushed out)
3. Inquisition (again uncompetitive; also need some plastics - plastic IG stormtroopers will help this)
4. Necrons (boring).

Ideally, we also need a poll for this thread!

Arandmoor
28-05-2008, 08:21
I'm sorry. I've seen several people say "Tau" and...

...Tau Empire? Ring a bell? Tau got a new codex not too long ago. So you might have a bad edition. Stuff everything you've got into devilfish, abuse the new vehicle table, and wait your turn.

The line forms to the left.

Brucopeloso
28-05-2008, 10:17
Dark Eldar, Necrons, Imperial Guard, Inquisition

...in that order.

It honestly pains me to think we're getting another marine codex this soon. While it might just be a holdover codex for dark eldar (something they can just quickly throw together without too much effort to buy themselves time), the Space Wolves rumor really annoys me. Two space marines releases in a row with as many SM releases as we've had over the last 6 years is too much IMO.

The only up side I can see is that, assuming Blood Angels don't get a new codex like I've heard they might not means the line-up would be nothing but xenos for quite some time unless they try to re-release BT/DA again (something which could very well get me to tell GW where to stick it).


Bless you!
If anybody in GW is listening.......

officer kerky
28-05-2008, 10:27
the dark eldar definatly need a new dex followed by the 'crons

Dave_Loken
28-05-2008, 10:50
guard need new codex maby, dark eldar realy need new models, necron players want variation. Cos im all about the model love it gose to the dark eldae

Souleater
28-05-2008, 10:55
Which Poll Thread needs a Poll Most?

I vote for Dark Eldar. Oldest Dex, desperately needs new miniatures.

Then add some pep to Necron before touching up my Nids (oo-er, Missus!)

Eryx_UK
28-05-2008, 10:58
In order:

1. Space Marines.
2. Inquisition combo-book.
3. Dark Eldar.
4. Necron.
5. Imperial Guard.

Doomseer
28-05-2008, 10:59
Dark Eldar, (models and Codex!), Necrons, Imperial Guard and Inquisition.

It's a shame, sometimes, that the whole system has to revolve around Space Marines!

Wolf Sgt Kirke
28-05-2008, 12:47
The dark eldar 'update' doesn't really qualify as making it new, so it's still the oldest codex around. Adding a few wargear items and a list of vehicle upgrades (something every race has except the DE!? They needed a WD to actually GET them :eyebrows:).

If you want to argue that it makes the DE codex newer, well the 13th wulfen army added a whole new Space wolf list, so the space wolves are still no the oldest.

Considering my rather sizeable wulfen and space wolf armies, I still think the DE deserve their codex first.

Hellebore

I said 'older' not older codex - you may notice the quantification when commenting on the IG codex, the space wolves are a much older component of the 40k background framework than dark eldar - also more popular, IMO,
and therefore are more deserving of prior attention than anyof the retconned races - and as for the post claiming that SW are space marines and are not a race - have you tried to play SW using just the space marine codex? no, why? because they are a seperate army - same race different capabilities, different style, different ethos, different backgound - SW are marines in the same way GKs are marines. as for the post saying hormaguants should be cheaper than ten points - they are priced that way because they are effective and so should be costed accordingly.

sorry i cant get multi quote to work for some reason.

rant over.

BajsArne
28-05-2008, 13:34
Zoats anyone?

AbyssRaven
28-05-2008, 14:19
1. Dark Eldar
2. Space Wolves
3. Demon Hunter/GK
4. Imperial Guard
5. Necrons
6. Tyranids
7. Tau

Deus Mechanicus
28-05-2008, 14:21
1. Space Marines (but that's happening so jump directly to:)
2. Codex: Sisters of Battle :D (along with plastic sisters i hope)

AbyssRaven
28-05-2008, 14:23
Space wolves are space marines not a race.

Go learn the wolves Fluff, read and learnt he 3rd ed codex so you understand their play style

Now go try and play them with the 4th ed list.
You cant

They are Like marines in that they share the name space marines. how they operate is nothing alike. its like calling Grey Knights and Sisters of battle the same thing. Cause they both wear power armour and both work for inquisitors

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
28-05-2008, 15:03
wrong. Wolves are space marines, but use other tactics. their equipment is the same as codex chapter, where grey knights and sororitas have different equipment.

so AbyssRaven, you are so wrong ...

Shas'o Zor'bas
28-05-2008, 15:35
Without doubt I would say Imperial Guards. I loved the idea of the army from the begining but when i saw the codex:cries:. Imagine how they'll be when the 5th edition arrives. also,if it isn't going to changemy best friend will suicide!!!

Souleater
28-05-2008, 16:14
They are Like marines in that they share the name space marines. how they operate is nothing alike. its like calling Grey Knights and Sisters of battle the same thing. Cause they both wear power armour and both work for inquisitors

Their play style of shoot some targets then beat the snot out of stuff in assault? Yes, so different from any other chapters. :eyebrows:

J-L
28-05-2008, 16:16
1. Dark Eldar (so old, need new everything desperately)
2. Necrons (need variety, new models, fresh rules)
3. Imperial Guard (some new models and rules remake)
4. Inquisition combo-book (some new plastic models, and deathwatch models)
5. Tyranids (a few new models and rules changes)
6. Space Wolves
7. Chaos legions combo-book (with cults, latd, need a minimum of models, just rules)
8. Tau

Wolf Sgt Kirke
28-05-2008, 16:31
wrong. Wolves are space marines, but use other tactics. their equipment is the same as codex chapter, where grey knights and sororitas have different equipment.

so AbyssRaven, you are so wrong ...

Who else has a leman russ exterminator? who else has frost blades, chooser of the slain, healing balms and potions, mark of wulfen, runic charm,wolf pelt, wolf tail talisman, wolf tooth necklace?

who else has heavy weapon troopers who split fire? who else has scouts that arrive on the opponents side? who else has basic troop choice marines, jump pack marines and biker marines with WS 3 and BS 3? who else has twenty terminators all armed exactly how they please? who else has stormcaller? who else has fenrisian wolves? who else won't teleport? who else takes one HQ for every 750 points? who else has 'no matter the odds? who else has acute senses?................well?

No Acheron, it is you who are wrong


Their play style of shoot some targets then beat the snot out of stuff in assault? Yes, so different from any other chapters. :eyebrows:

Because ......oh, lets say, Tyranids, chaos and orks are all so different in their tactics?:eyebrows:

Keichi246
28-05-2008, 17:58
My list:

(Acknowledging that Space Marines and Space Wolves have been nearly confirmed as the first two codices post 5th edition... - they are off my list)

1) Dark Eldar - they DESPERATELY need a refesh - more than nearly any other army. Overall, their rules are not too atrocious (but they sure do have a number of cruddy units) but the model line is nearly impossible to get - and pretty ugly too. A new codex and model line refresh is the only hope to avoid the army getting "squatted".

2) Inquistion unified codex. Daemonhunters are a terrible army now. Not only are they really expensive - but the new Codex: Daemonica (their theoretical enemy ) can so thoroughly trash a Daemonhunters army it is sad. (Example - Daemons ignore "instant death, including force weapons. Grey knights are equipped with REALLY EXPENSIVE force weapons to kill daemons. WTF!!!!) Also - seeing any of the Inquisition lines converted to plastic would make me a happy but broke man.

3) Imperial Guard need a rules refresh more than anything else. I'm generally satisfied with the models (although new rough riders, plastic Stormtroopers, or a few plastic "customize your army" sprues wouldn't be bad ;)). The 5th edition looks like it will hammer the relatively underpowered Guard into the ground though. It would be sad to see no one playing the one of the most common armed forces in the 40k universe.

Those are my top three choices. The rest are potentials - in no particular order.

Necrons - (add a few more viable choices and possibly resolve the glancing issues the necorons may face. A plastic immortal or flayed ones kit would rock)

Tyranids - mostly a minor refresh - I don't honestly see the Tyranids getting ANY less deadly in 5th edition - even with the rending changes. MCs can still fire two weapons, I see the CC changes meaning a LOT fewer drawn out combats, etc...

Tau - may or may not be particularly hurt by 5th edition. If they are - they should get updated - but it's not critical.

Eldar - may or may not be particularly hurt by 5th edition. If they are - they should get updated - but it's not critical.

Any other space marine knock off armys, more recent codices etc can wait... :D

Vaktathi
28-05-2008, 18:11
Who else has a leman russ exterminator? The Imperial Guard:angel:




Because ......oh, lets say, Tyranids, chaos and orks are all so different in their tactics?:eyebrows:

Umm...yes, yes they are actually.

Promethius
28-05-2008, 18:12
I basically agree with Keichi246's post, with the exception that although I think DE need and indeed deserve an update asap, I would rather wait 6 months and get a quality return than see a rush job that will kill DE forever. Personally, having been thrashed soundly with DE, I think that the rules are not the problem, but rather the shocking miniatures. IG on the other hand, are on the complete opposite of the spectrum; awesome models, absolutely awful rules.

I think that in addition to rules, Inquisition will probably need minimal support model wise - they probably aren't going to go all plastic. On the other hand, the addition of plastic stormtroopers will potentially relieve the pain somewhat for the Inquisition boys, and leave the all grey knights armies for purists. Much as I wouldlike to see plastic SoB etc., I don't think that plastic can currently do them justice, and the fact is that AC had to fight a rearguard action to see them preserved at all, let alone get expensive metal treatment.

El'Flashman
28-05-2008, 18:24
Without a doubt Dark Eldar need a new codex the most but does 40K need Dark Eldar? I'm not so sure... I'd like to see 40k divorce itself from fantasy, stop dragging around the chains of history and ditch the DE. TBH I'm sure there's a vocal minority who want a DE codex and will buy new DE models but will there be a big enough market for the pointy eared pain monkeys to be commercially viable? I'm not so sure and obviously GW isn’t so sure either. I rather see a unified Inquisition codex or a Demiurg or even another new species rather than Eldar but in purple... with spiky bits.

Spectral Dragon
28-05-2008, 18:34
Their play style of shoot some targets then beat the snot out of stuff in assault? Yes, so different from any other chapters. :eyebrows:

Wow, I didn't realize other armies did anything other than that to win :p

Seriously though, SW's do need a new codex, which thankfully they are getting if rumors are true.

40kdhs
28-05-2008, 18:53
Grey knights codex for pure GK players like me is awesome.

Danny Internet
28-05-2008, 18:56
Imperial Guard probably need a codex most, especially with the new Kill Points nonsense. With the changes to glancing hits and scoring units in 5th, Necrons are going to need some serious reworking as well.

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
28-05-2008, 20:23
Who else has a leman russ exterminator?IG. who else has frost blades,you mean, fancy power weapon ? about 99% of chapters chooser of the slainyou mean librarian familiar with fancy name ? every chapter - not every have fancy name ..., healing balms and potionsyou mean apothecary stuff - like every other chapter ?, mark of wulfengenetic mutation ?: Blood Angels, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, their successors and some random chapters., runic charmfancy power armour - every chapter with techmarines ?,wolf pelt, wolf tail talisman, wolf tooth necklaceyou mean trophies ? most of armies - just take a look at UM TV?

who else has heavy weapon troopers who split fire i'd rather say veteran heavy weapon troopers - some chapters? who else has scouts that arrive on the opponents side veteran scouts ? raven guard is pretty well know for such things ? who else has basic troop choice marines, jump pack marines and biker marines with WS 3 and BS 3 green marines. funny.? who else has twenty terminators all armed exactly how they pleaseravenwing for sure - probably more chapters tho? who else has stormcaller you mean psychic power - every librarian ;)? who else has fenrisian wolves Wolves - no other chapter is from fenris? who else won't teleport i always laught from this half ar**d fluff :D? who else takes one HQ for every 750 points? who else has 'no matter the odds? who else has acute senses Raven Guard ??................well?

No Acheron, it is you who are wrong


Comments in red

you listed mostly purely game differences - not fluff ones. i'll gladly see your face after next codex hit a shelves - where most of thing you just noted will no longer be there.

you're so wrong in so many places it's not even funny.

Gensuke626
28-05-2008, 21:24
Comments in red

you listed mostly purely game differences - not fluff ones. i'll gladly see your face after next codex hit a shelves - where most of thing you just noted will no longer be there.

you're so wrong in so many places it's not even funny.

You know Acheron...I actually agree with Wolfsgt on a few things.

There are a few things that I honestly don't think will be removed from the Codex as it's unique to Space Wolves.

Long Fangs will most likely be able to retain their Fire Control ability, or whatever it's called.

The Stormcaller Psychic power is as unique to wolves as Mind Wurm and those other powers are to Dark Angels.

Having Ultra Elite Terminators doesn't seem so farfetched, though I doubt that the Ravenwing has Terminators that are at all similar to the Wolf Guard, as you claim.

No one but Orks currently have infiltrators that can deploy from the Opponent's board edge.

Sure this may change with the new Codex, but I don't think any of these things will become standard Codex anytime soon.

And really, haven't we all learned that in 40k, the Fluff doesn't really matter, just the rules?

Lord_Squinty
28-05-2008, 21:29
Can someone explain why necrons should be before the inquisition? the daemonhunters actually have rules that do not work the necrons have a fully capable army and i personally do not find them boring either.

Under the new 5th edition - necrons are seriously nerfed.

I wish everyone would stop saying DE - all that'll happen is they nerf the units that ARE good ;)
I like my DE just fine! (well not the models)

Should be the order:

Dark Eldar
Necrons
Space Puppies
Inquisition
Guard


Order will be more like:

Space marines
Nids
Codex: Ultrasmurf angels (or something)
Tau
Codex: Marines of a different colour
and so on....



No one but Orks currently have infiltrators that can deploy from the Opponent's board edge.


Soon, everybody's infiltrators will be coming on opponents board edges...... Well, the short ones anyways.

UberBeast
28-05-2008, 21:47
Imperial guard really need a new book the most. Their list sucks, and has sucked through both 3rd and 4th editions. IG are an original mainstay army from the 1st edition, and they desperately need redone. Necrons will need a new book when the 5th edition comes out, but not as badly as Dark Eldar need to simply exist again. Necrons, Space Wolves and DE are all niche armies though. Redoing them effects a smaller crowd than IG.

Lord_Squinty
28-05-2008, 21:59
not as badly as Dark Eldar need to simply exist again. DE are all niche armies though. Redoing them effects a smaller crowd than IG.

They're a niche army to a smaller crowd BECAUSE of the lack of new rules / models.

I've lost count of how many people have said "I've always wanted to start a DE army, but I'll wait for the new book / models" or some such.

Chimerus
28-05-2008, 22:10
Imperial Guard needs a new codex most!!! more options! more effectiveness! hopefully more tanks! and having a guardsman cost the same as an ork boy is a TRAVESTY! the ork even has mob rule and furious charge!

DE should go the way of those short bearded fellows who shall not be named. I've lost count of how many people have said "Dark Eldar? who are they? some kinda craftworld?" But their codex is effective. At best, roll 'em into the eldar, just with spikes and sadism.

As for Necrons, boring but effective is the order of the day. but come on, they are ROBOTS! they just do the same thing over and over again.

Space wolves? sure, might be cool. What I'd really like to see are codecies for the other founding chapters, White Scars being a prime example. 'cus bikes are cool.

EDit: oh yea the inquisition could use help too. Xeno hunters don't even have a codex, and Demon hunters need to be better for their cost. maybe make shrouding more effective, like the eldar thing, veil of tears! and improve effectiveness against demons, who don't even have instability anymore! the grey knight model are pretty sweet.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
28-05-2008, 22:21
Comments in red

you listed mostly purely game differences - not fluff ones. i'll gladly see your face after next codex hit a shelves - where most of thing you just noted will no longer be there.

you're so wrong in so many places it's not even funny.

So game mechanics are not abstractly derived from fluff?:eyebrows:
as for your highlighted comments, i think you may :- A) not have copies of the codices that you are making calls from

or B) are missing the point, since when do the RAVENWING have terminators?:wtf:

if you missed the point that badly, i'll try to spell it out a touch better this time.

The game mechanics, for want of a better phrase, i listed, are what makes the wolves play differently from other races/armies - this is the acid test for GW when it comes to bringing the fluff to life - 'does the army play in tune with it's background?'

if you look back at when SWs codex was released for 3rd ed, we were the only chapter with many of the things i mentioned, plus some others, like ven dreads, true grit, counter attack and a couple of other things. It's the main reason that i feel SW deserve a new codex soonest - were before in 2nd ed and even in third ed, we stood apart from other marine chapters for the reasons previously mentioned - now we look all much of a muchness, just another shade of vanilla, if you like - that was due to GW basically being lazy and cut and pasting things that used to make SWs good at what they do, so that all marines could be good at it as well (to varying degrees).

since no-one else does what DE or necrons do as well or even in simillar fasion, this, in my view detracts from their priority - giving the nod to the wolves in the race for a new codex.

I agree with you that in 5th ed, most of the things i listed will be available to almost everyone in one way or another - and you are right in your assumption that i would have a very sad looking face, all the more need for a new codex - after all what is any army without snazzy new rules that only they can take advantage of? it is those game mechanics which you decried earlier that field the fluff for your force.

as for fluff - i remember when ragnar blackmane was supposed to have extendable knives in his boots, i wonder if they will include that in the new codex? if it helps you to empathise at all - i'm a very fluffy player, in so far as a good story from a game, and playing in character is more important to me than winning the game - my other army is Tanith First and only, with whom i have never won a game - but emporer damn me if i don't love them!

for further views and comments on what i'm trying to get at, check this thread out....http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144459..................if i've worked out how to paste a link? - i'm not much cop at this internet thingy.

TTFN

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
28-05-2008, 23:04
deathwing. too tired to check what i wrote ...

i play chaos ... with only Chaos Lord on JP with Daemon Weapon outside the tournaments. fluffy undivided force with basic marine, without obliterators - so i know what is fluff [aslo check my version of CSM codex - way more customizable than in CSM 3.5]

but fortunetely/unfortunetely GW choose streamlined rules. and when counting it, wolves plays just like any other random chapter *** ***. they are still loyal, with not so much mutations, and geared for CC chapter - like many others.

do they deserve codex, because they had one in 2nd ED? or they have unique playstyle[they dont have]?

no - they will get codex purely becouse their fanbase want one. just like DA and BA. no other reason ...

beside - do you want every single equipment to have their rules ? this way every marine would have billion rules. it is better suited to inquisitor, as it is impossible to balance.

SW are just like every other chapter - deal with it.

just like Night Stalkers [my chapter] is like few others [went traitor] - but i still play them - not because they have unique rules - but because they are Night Stalkers.

Captin Korea!
28-05-2008, 23:30
1: LATD
2: guard, I don't see them being great next edition
3: Dark elfs..err eldar, even though I have seen one person ever play them.

Spectral Dragon
29-05-2008, 00:05
Comments in red

you listed mostly purely game differences - not fluff ones. i'll gladly see your face after next codex hit a shelves - where most of thing you just noted will no longer be there.

you're so wrong in so many places it's not even funny.

I'm not feeling most of your arguments here. Put all those things together and SW's are a fairly unique chapter.

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 00:12
Necrons again, they are cool IMO and new stuff would be awesome for them and long overdue. Dark Eldar need new models to be sure but Necrons do need a codex update so for me its Necrons and Dark Eldar.

No chaos or imperial like stuff as there is already way too many armies for both of those factions let alone the miniature range they boast :cries:.

Gensuke626
29-05-2008, 00:24
Soon, everybody's infiltrators will be coming on opponents board edges...... Well, the short ones anyways.

I meant No one else but Orkz and SWs can...blahblahblah...

and I did actually mean approach from opponent's edge vs outflank. isn't outflank still a "I roll to randomly determine what edge I approach from"?

Chimaera2000
29-05-2008, 03:04
I'd vote for the Necrons, particularly with the 5th edition changes to Glancing hits. As is, Heavy Destroyers are the only consistent anti-vehicle choice available to them right now, with other options all having severe limitations. I give the Daemonhunters a close second, however.

Joewrightgm
29-05-2008, 03:31
I'm going with my heart, and putting in a vote for my first army, Necrons. Interesting and awesome army, but when you have to lug around pretty much every FAQ printed, it gets annoying. Cleaning up of their special rules, along with a few new goodies spread around and I'd be happy.

From a desperate need stand point, I'm going with Dark Eldar. One of the most largely ignored armies that in the hands of a competent player can open arteries (no seriously, have you seen their models?).

I really like the army's concept and find the little fiction written about them very interesting, and they definitly deserve it.

But if the Ork codex is anything to go by, I'll say this with confidence: You'll get yours.

BLARGAG!!!
29-05-2008, 03:52
first off i would like to say that, in my 7 years in this great hobby of ours, i know more people who play DE (2) than people who play any =][= armies (me).

so, i would like to put my vote in for
1) =][= (i dont car if they combine the codexes, as long as can still field thew army that i play currently...... some plastic SoB would be nice too)(might also be biased cuz i play WH)
2) DE (i have nothing to say that hasnt already been said)
3) IG (rough riders are horrible atm, and things like chimeras are severely overcosted)

other than that, i think that the Space Puppies should receive the same treatment that BA got. i, personally, think that all of the SM armies should get 1 codex and one should be able to play any chapter from this 'dex. then people would stopping bi***ing about how there are too many SM 'dexes.

my 2 cents
BLARGAG!!!

Logarithm Udgaur
29-05-2008, 07:37
Definitely LaTD, Dark Eldar and then Necrons.

Souleater
29-05-2008, 09:31
Because ......oh, lets say, Tyranids, chaos and orks are all so different in their tactics?:eyebrows:

Which in no way invalidates my original point. They are assaulty Space Marines with extra bells and whistles.

It just amused me that you chose to compare WH and DH as an equal contrast. While the =I= dexes share certain units their 'poster' units and vehicles are very different.

mrspadge
29-05-2008, 10:19
codecies i want updated (in order of preference)

1) daemonhunters (i like the WH as they are, but i aggree with BLARGAG!!!, if they combine the codecies i'm not too fussed).

2) dark eldar (there are so many cool things that these guys could get.....)

3) space wolves/black templars (to keep them up to date with the "new" marine 'dex)

4) necrons

6) tyranids (they have now got some serious issues dealing with AV14 - only the MC's in combat and warp blasts can penetrate AV14 vehicles in the 5th ed rules)

AbyssRaven
29-05-2008, 11:00
I would play DE if they came about new.
I have been waiting for new models/codex since i finished my1 st great Company about 6-7 years ago.

If space wolves are so like Vanilla, why when you look in their 3rd ed codex the only reference to "see codex space marines" the vehicles?
I'm done arguing that though. If you think they are renamed marines, good for you son, you enjoy those thoughts.

Im not sure if GW plan to do LaTD again since it only seemed a tack on to 13th Black Crusade. Much like the albion special charecters in the albion expansion for WHFB afew years back

the1stpip
29-05-2008, 11:03
I wouldn't hold my breath for LatD. Having spoke to Jervis recently, they have no intentions of releasing a new list any time soon.

They are happy with them being used in Apocalypse, but that is it.

Crimson Reaver
29-05-2008, 11:03
I'm actually dead set against having a new codex for the Sisters at any stage in the near future.

Looking at all the other recent lists, they've stripped out options and made things easier to balance but far more bland at the same time. I've done lots of nice conversions for my Sister Superiors and I don't want them to be invalidated by a new codex.

Also, how can I grumble about BS4, power armour and a boltgun with the ability to lay down AP1 shots with the use of Faith, all for 11pts per model?!

I feel real sympathy for GK players, the army looks great but fails to live up to its promise, but no way do I want your well deserved update to signify the incorporation and blandification (sorry, I know it's not a word, but it was the first thing I thought of) of my list as well.

My own personal list in terms of who should get what done first runs thus:

1) Necrons - I know at least 4 people in my group who use Necrons and they're the dullest and most frustrating army I've ever had the misfortune to fight. I love the models and the theme of the army but I can't face playing them. Update ASAP!

2) Dark Eldar - Just because they're so old and I'd collect an army of them if they look cool and they have decent rules.

3) Imperial Guard - Again they seriously need an update, if only to make them more fun to play against, I'm sick of the shooty army from hell camping in their deployment zone and never leaving. Give them cause to move around and engage in a more balanced fight and I'll be happy.

4) Grey Knights/DH - Just leave the Sisters out of it ok :D

Other than that, I'm not really convinced that much else needs urgent attention. SW should get a White Dwarf list, along with any other Marine chapter they want to distinguish, and if they want to do a chapter specific book they should just release 1 book with everything in and get it out the way.

Kronos
29-05-2008, 11:16
Dark Eldar, The Inquisition (wasn't there going to be one book for all three Ordo?) and Necrons. But Most of all Space Wolves, the first SM i ever saw, and i think they deserve a new codex and some new Minis too.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
29-05-2008, 11:44
Which in no way invalidates my original point. They are assaulty Space Marines with extra bells and whistles.

It just amused me that you chose to compare WH and DH as an equal contrast. While the =I= dexes share certain units their 'poster' units and vehicles are very different.

I haven't compared them if iirc? please correct me if i am mistaken

Wolf Sgt Kirke
29-05-2008, 12:06
deathwing. too tired to check what i wrote ...my apologies for being pedantic

i play chaos ... with only Chaos Lord on JP with Daemon Weapon outside the tournaments. fluffy undivided force with basic marine, without obliterators - so i know what is fluff [aslo check my version of CSM codex - way more customizable than in CSM 3.5]

but fortunetely/unfortunetely GW choose streamlined rules.unfortunetly, in my eyes reference balance anyway and when counting it, wolves plays just like any other random chapter *** ***what are the asterixs for?. they are still loyal, with not so much mutations, and geared for CC chapter - like many others.do they have BA rules? BT rules?divergent traits? must have missed that then!

do they deserve codex, because they had one in 2nd ED? or they have unique playstyle[they dont have]?do DE or necrons, because they had one in 3rd?do we favour retconned races over originals?( i may have to start a poll on that one)

no - they will get codex purely becouse their fanbase want one. just like DA and BA. no other reason ...you have a better reason why anyone should get a new codex? broken/nerfed?

beside - do you want every single equipment to have their rules ? this way every marine would have billion rules. it is better suited to inquisitor, as it is impossible to balance.actually with more detailed rules we may have more chance of finding the holy grail of balance, not just for marines but for all races - which is why i am against WD back handed codexes - would you be happy if DE/chaos/necrons/whoever got that?

SW are just like every other chapter - deal with it.so my earlier post about game mechanics and their relationship to translating fluff into the game was incorrect? i meant that for all races/armies as well.

just like Night Stalkers [my chapter] is like few others [went traitor] - but i still play them - not because they have unique rules - but because they are Night Stalkers.so what other than having a different paint job and background makes them different? do/did you use index astartes?

see my comments in yellow

would you be happier if all marines were in one codex - along that path lies DE/eldar codexs, chaos/latd/daemons/traitor books - or even the 3rd ed rulebook 'dex in the back.

no race should get the WD codex treatment.
fo the price we pay for models, rulebooks and other paraphenalia, it is outrageous that players should get such shabby service.

if this happens, we are looking at more streamlining and half arsed productions from GW - no good thing surely?

apologies for the double post. had a rethink.

Souleater
29-05-2008, 13:04
I haven't compared them if iirc? please correct me if i am mistaken

Indeed, my apologies. I had been questioning the comparison between DH vs WH, and SM vs SW which is where you came in. As you seemed to be defending that point (my apologies if you are not) I had inadvertantly replied to you rather than the OP.

I've fought against and alongside SW for many years. I understand a lot of SW players think SWs are special, but at the end of the day I think they are more similar to SM than different from them. If they weren't they wouldn't be Space Marines, they would be something else.

Look at DE and CE. Both are Eldar but there are very few common features. Both get fleet..they share one weapon statline but otherwise the two codexes are more dissimilar than alike.

SWs do not have that degree of seperation from Vanilla Marines.

OTOH if I compare my BA against SWs I see an awful lot of similarities in terms of gear and stats. There are differences, naturally but I'm just a little tired of some SW players (IMHO) over-exaggerating the differences.

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
29-05-2008, 13:27
Each codex should portrait 'side' of the conflict.

BT,BA,DA,SW [and their foundings] and 'Codex' chapters are just it - side of the conflict.

Eldar/Dark Eldar analogy is not right - because Eldars share only tiny percent of their technology - and harlequins. and thats it. on the other side every astartes chapter have similiar equipment and organisation [some have not similiar organisation]

it is the better reason - create codices about 'races' - not tiny pieces of the races.

Night Stalkers used to be codex chapter, now, when they reveal their true face - as Chaos God worshipers, they 'modified' codex astartes.

About Necrons - IMO they dont deserve their codex. i dont like thay GW allowed people to play them. they should not be part of the game.

About Dark Eldars - they were in the fluff and fit the theme. and they deserve codex.

[asterix were chapter name]

IMO balance is easier to achive with less codices - so without wolves, templars, emo marines, vampyre marines etc.

apologies for short answer, i'll write down more ..

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 13:46
Necrons are amazing and do deserve to be in the game and bring another dimension to the game, all we need now are more none human related races. I play the 4 imperial armies and still I would like more xenos to make this a far better game.

Necrons are ACE!

Wraithbored
29-05-2008, 13:57
1.Dark Eldar
2.Imperial Guard
3.Necrons
4.Lost and the damned
5.Tyranids
6.Inquisition
.
.
.
99.Anything marine related.

Luthien
29-05-2008, 14:00
Dark eldar, end of discussion. Necrons are practically brand new compared to the DE.

Titan Wolfe
29-05-2008, 14:07
For me has to be the following
1) Necrons
2) Dark Eldar
3) Tyranids

And of course ......Space Wolves .....come on !

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
29-05-2008, 14:15
Necrons are amazing and do deserve to be in the game and bring another dimension to the game, all we need now are more none human related races. I play the 4 imperial armies and still I would like more xenos to make this a far better game.

Necrons are ACE!

thats why orks exist - the most numerous race in the galaxy!!!!!

[necrons are best lying in their tombs waiting for the end of the world - not as playable army :/]

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 15:04
They are a playable army and have amazing background, I love and collect orks and I want more races to play with/against so the Necrons are just another thing that makes me like this system.

Back on topic, its almost certain Dark Eldar are being done soon, so now is the time of the Necrons :chrome:.

Hrw-Amen
29-05-2008, 15:27
Sisters of Battle. (Along with some new plastic multi-part minatures.)

It would be good to see Squats back again though. I realise that they were supposed to have been killed off, but I'm sure some would have survived somewhere, they can't all have made it back to the homeworlds in time to be slaughtered surely? Maybe in the next IG codex they should be an add on, like ogryns or ratlings.

Necrons probably could do with a few more options though so that would be good as well.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
29-05-2008, 16:34
Indeed, my apologies. I had been questioning the comparison between DH vs WH, and SM vs SW which is where you came in. As you seemed to be defending that point (my apologies if you are not) I had inadvertantly replied to you rather than the OP.

I've fought against and alongside SW for many years. I understand a lot of SW players think SWs are special, but at the end of the day I think they are more similar to SM than different from them. If they weren't they wouldn't be Space Marines, they would be something else.

Look at DE and CE. Both are Eldar but there are very few common features. Both get fleet..they share one weapon statline but otherwise the two codexes are more dissimilar than alike.

SWs do not have that degree of seperation from Vanilla Marines.

OTOH if I compare my BA against SWs I see an awful lot of similarities in terms of gear and stats. There are differences, naturally but I'm just a little tired of some SW players (IMHO) over-exaggerating the differences.


Each codex should portrait 'side' of the conflict.

BT,BA,DA,SW [and their foundings] and 'Codex' chapters are just it - side of the conflict.

Eldar/Dark Eldar analogy is not right - because Eldars share only tiny percent of their technology - and harlequins. and thats it. on the other side every astartes chapter have similiar equipment and organisation [some have not similiar organisation]

it is the better reason - create codices about 'races' - not tiny pieces of the races.

Night Stalkers used to be codex chapter, now, when they reveal their true face - as Chaos God worshipers, they 'modified' codex astartes.

About Necrons - IMO they dont deserve their codex. i dont like thay GW allowed people to play them. they should not be part of the game.

About Dark Eldars - they were in the fluff and fit the theme. and they deserve codex.

[asterix were chapter name]

IMO balance is easier to achive with less codices - so without wolves, templars, emo marines, vampyre marines etc.

apologies for short answer, i'll write down more ..

So you would both be in favour of less codices? interesting point, that i haven't seen raised since BA got the WD treatment.

do you think that GW would actually do a good job of that though, and that it would take less time?

i think it would be severly unfair to long time gamers (i came in at the end of rogue trader for example, and have spent a lot of hard earned pennies on just two armies in that time , SW and Tanith first and only - so you can imagine the size of my collections) to do so.

i concede the point that one codex for each side of the conflict may be a good point, but i would say consider the practicalities - page turning nightmare for the imperial codex, to say the least - production and product cost may be prohibitive as well - GW will not do it self down money wise! not to mention the miniature release schedule.

i think it will never happen, but what i am really trying to get at is that in 2nd ed space wolves had different stat lines, different wargear and a different style of play to vanilla marines, despite what you say - that difference has been lost - and i am hoping that a new, seperate codex may bring that back - it is surely deserved after all this time (i do not count 13th company as a SW list - it was for the black crusade, like LatD, nothing more - it may point the direction the wolves will go but that remains to be seen.)

to end could you both really live with GW pareing down all the marine codices? don't you feel it may rob the hobby/game of something? even if you don't play with/against them very often - will it not lessen your enjoyment of the game to play SW-grey-vanilla marines? i have not said at any point that DE or necrons or anyone should NOT get a codex, i think all three badly need a codex and soon - i just feel that the wolves deserve better treatment than they have recieved thus far - at least DE and necrons didn't get a codex choc full of nice shiny rules that was all theirs, only to see every tom, dick and harry smurf get them later - they have lost their identity andthat is only to the detriment of the game.

i think you are right that less codices would help to bring balance but at the expense of fluff, fun and creativity and it is not a price i think we should bear.

Kettu
29-05-2008, 16:38
[necrons are best lying in their tombs waiting for the end of the world - not as playable army :/]

Grey Knights are but one chapter.
Blood Angels are but one chapter.
Dark Angels are but one chapter.
Space Wolves are but one chapter.
Dark Eldar all hail from one city.

By your logic then Space Marines and Dark Eldar shouldn't be playable as there is so few of them.

Even if there is only a few million of the robots then it still out numbers all the marines several times whilst Dark Eldar invasions would be so incredibly minor that they wouldn't even be worthy of a foot note.

---

On another note, I only said Necrons before Inquisition because I don't know how 'broken' they are. On one hand we have people complaining that they'll become unplayable under new rules whilst the other half of the equation I'm hearing that they will own all competition with immortal Monos and unkillable troops.

As an avid Sister fan and supporter I would love to see them receive a new codex before anyone but Dark Eldar (my first army who do nothing but gather dust).
No combined =][=; if Biker and Termi Marines deserve a separate codex from Vanilla when the only real difference I can see is a different arrangement of the FOC then my Sisters sure as warp deserve a separate one then the Grey Knights and Death-watch.

As much as some hate the new layout, the sisters deserve an update soon; they were the last official 2nd edition codex who received IMO, sub-standard treatment in 3rd and nothing in 4th.
And the most important thing… Plastic Sisters.
For some strange and not all together clear reason, GW won’t introduce any form of updated kit for any army unless it directly follows a codex.

Come on, utterly missed opportunity, have one of each heavy and special weapon in the box and you cover four choices in the army list already. More conversion-inclined gamers can add Sister Hospitallers, Cannonesses, and Sister Diologuses to the list as well as female IG storm-trooper conversions that could take place. (As well as adding more farging variation to the army past the six or so poses.)

Altashheth
29-05-2008, 16:47
i vote for the guard/dark eldar....everyone else has a working codex and that includes necrons, a warrior swarm will be awesome in 5th ed

The_Outsider
29-05-2008, 16:53
Dark Eldar all hail from one city.



A city that could be near infinite in size. Imagine a city large enough to house the entire population of current day earth (and DE numbers could easily be waaaay more or less than that figure).

Lockjaw
29-05-2008, 16:59
people seem to post what they want rather then what codexes need to be upgraded first. The priority is dark eldar and then Inquisition either combined or seperate as they are the most out of date. Daemonhunters in particular have abilities that literally mean nothing now such as instability for daemons and that daemon packs or daemon beast packs no longer exist. dark eldar have the oldest codex so should be first. Imperial guard should be third and necrons 4th i have the necron codex and i see very little reason why it should be high priority as it works perfectly fine with no abilities that no longer work it has some problems (at least according to some) but nothing bad enough to warrant placing it a higher priority than DH/WH and dark eldar. Any race with a fourth edition codex such as eldar tau orks should be very low priority as they actually have updated armies

edit: armies that would be new such as LatD, squats, or whoever should be the lowest priority of all as GW needs to update the armies they currently have now much more then they need a new army

LatD wouldn't be a new army, they already had a codex, they'd just be an updated army.

but yeah, DE reaaaaallllyyyy need a new codex, and new models, followed by =I=, combined in one book, with ordos xenos added.

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 17:01
I have to ask what is everyones problem with the current IG rules?

x-esiv-4c
29-05-2008, 17:04
Why are people saying Necrons need a new book. I'm not trying to be an ****** about it, just want to know your opinions.

Bloodknight
29-05-2008, 17:05
The book is quite underpowered - I'd even dare to say only second to Daemonhunters - and boring, because all the Imperial stuff which is supposed to be in an IG army, heck, which makes the IG an Imperial army instead of some semi-historical army, is borderline useless or damaging to a played army as a whole. Look over the lists in the army list forums and go find me one with a priest or an enginseer. ;)

edit: as for the Necrons: they are boring because they offer almost no choices, therefore unfun to play (I played say 50 games with my former roommate's army) and due to their not too well-thought out special rules annoying to play against after a few games, IMO.

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 17:05
Because for unit selections they have the lowest options out of all the races, the units are good in places but under perform in others. And in general it is the desire for more units really.

EDIT: Damn! beaten by BloodKnight!

Lord Inquisitor
29-05-2008, 17:31
The book is quite underpowered - I'd even dare to say only second to Daemonhunters - and boring, because all the Imperial stuff which is supposed to be in an IG army, heck, which makes the IG an Imperial army instead of some semi-historical army, is borderline useless or damaging to a played army as a whole. Look over the lists in the army list forums and go find me one with a priest or an enginseer. ;)
Uuuh... Guardsmen, commissars and Leman Russ tanks?

Engineseers and priests are entertaining, but hardly a staple of the list. They only actually appeared in the last edition!

Promethius
29-05-2008, 17:32
Another problem that 'crons suffer from (which will probably never be solved) is that as soulless entities they don't encourage the modeller/converters amongst us. They could really do with more entries (some kind of dreadnought, ala the one in the Kal Jericho: above and beyond comics, would be cool) and hopefully with something with a bit more soul to it.

Danny Internet
29-05-2008, 17:39
Why are people saying Necrons need a new book. I'm not trying to be an ****** about it, just want to know your opinions.

In order of importance:

(1) Glancing hits cannot destroy vehicles in 5th
(2) Only Troops are scoring units in 5th
(3) Very limited selection of units

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 17:55
Another problem that 'crons suffer from (which will probably never be solved) is that as soulless entities they don't encourage the modeller/converters amongst us. They could really do with more entries (some kind of dreadnought, ala the one in the Kal Jericho: above and beyond comics, would be cool) and hopefully with something with a bit more soul to it.

Ah, but the same can be said of Tyranids, though there range of models is staggering, I would love to see an anti wraithlord Necron walker/monsterous creature...

Gensuke626
29-05-2008, 21:07
Just a few oppinions concerning Marines:
The codexes really should be:
Codex: Space Marines vol.1: Codex Chapters
Codex: Space Marines vol.2: Non-Codex Chapters

BA and DA have units that are unique to each army, but consider the fact that they were both contained in Codex: Angels of Death in 2ed. They're both as much a Codex Chapter as the Ultramarines, so I see no reason to simply lump them together.
The Ravenwing, Deathwing, Death Company, and specialized psychic powers could all be encapsulated in something like 8 pages in a Marine codex like they did with the Ultramarine Tyranid Hunters and Honor Guard with a note that basically says "Dark Angel specific units may not be takenin an Army that contains Blood Angel or Ultramarine Specific units."

In vol2 they could cover chapters whose tactics and rules are hard to encapsulate in the rigid restraints of a "Codex Marines" codex...Namely The Space Wolves, Black Templars, and White Scars. They'd get the same treatment as the other marine codex, combining some units a little...Like making a "basic Marine squad" then if it's a Grey Hunter squad it gets Wolfy Options, but if it's a Crusader squad, then it can buy neophytes or something.

On Necrons - I really don't see why necrons are better off sleeping in tombs...I think the fluff and concept need an overhaul but other than that, I think they fight right into 40k...a lot better than Tau, that's for sure. I mean, don't get me wrong...The Space Commies have been getting better about fitting in, but they're still the kid wearing an Aloha Shirt to a funeral.

Promethius
29-05-2008, 22:15
Ah, but the same can be said of Tyranids, though there range of models is staggering, I would love to see an anti wraithlord Necron walker/monsterous creature...

True, although at least with 'nids you can be encouraged to convert to represent new mutations/evolution or to personalise your 'fex or whatever. With the 'crons, there is literally nothing much to customise - about the most interesting thing I've seen people do with the 'cron models is true-scaling them and adding base effects. A tweak to the fluff to suggest that immortals, lords and the postulated dreadnought retain some individuality/character (which has been hinted at in DoW) might encourage more modelling and make them more interesting. At the moment, they're just bland, imo.

Lord Malorne
29-05-2008, 22:31
Also heavily pointed out in the Xenology book ;).