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x-esiv-4c
27-05-2008, 15:25
I went to the local GW in hope of finding a Nurgle Daemon prince (the guy with the pokey eye). Not seeing any in on the shelves I asked a redshirt if they had any. The conversation went like this:

"Do you have any Nurgle Daemon princes about?"

"Right behind you"

I look back and see a few boxes of GuO

"No no, i'm looking for a daemon prince, not a greater daemon"

"What?"

"You know, the guy based off the regular daemon prince sculpt"

"There never was a Nurgle Daemon Prince, just use that one (pointing at the GuO)"

"No, i'm certain about this. Has a sword, chains wrapped around it..."

"Never heard of it, sorry"

Then he goes back to painting.
So.....Whats the consensus here? Anyone else come in contact with a Redshirt who doesn't know the GW product line?

Pacific
27-05-2008, 15:29
Although it sounds like he was a little bit half-assed about it (which is another topic entirely), alot of the time I think its impossible to know every single model and release in the range, in the same way its almost impossible to know every rule and stat line.

However, if this was the case, and you were emphatic that there was such a model, at the very least he should have hooked out a catalogue or made a phone call to try and help.

Amon 'Chakai
27-05-2008, 15:54
Is this the item in question sir?

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110102094&orignav=10

I get it all of the time. Just bask in the glory of your own magnificance.

Bookwrak
27-05-2008, 15:56
Redshirts are people too, and there is no 'GW test' that they have to take before they start working. It's too bad that he did such a poor job of being a sales clerk, but oh well.

swordwind
27-05-2008, 17:02
Jinkies! A Shop Assistant didnt know a relatively obscure miniature from a range of tens of thousands! Halt the presses!

Bloodknight
27-05-2008, 17:09
I doubt that this one is an obscure mini because it belongs to one of the most popular ranges and is a HQ mini for one of the most played cults in that army. It's also a big set, not a normal infantry guy. I would have understood if some guy did not know the difference between Tomb Guard and Grave Guard for example, but this one is weak, especially because the guy provided false information and did not even look into the catalogue but said the customer was incorrect (you don't do that without knowing so). That is a sale thrown away.

Dwarf Supreme
27-05-2008, 17:12
While I wouldn't expect a Red Shirt to know every single mini, his response of "There never was one" implies familiarity. Instead of blowing you off, I agree he should've consulted a catalog or made inquiries.

DoktorZinieztro
27-05-2008, 17:18
Exactly...

Poor service has many guises, and this is one of them.

Gimp
27-05-2008, 17:21
Hmmmm i see

well i dont expect a person that works at a GW to know every model but the Nurgle Deamon Prince is very popular.

but really he should have looked it up instead of blowing you off like that. i think he was more interested in painting his models than helping you

Lord Damocles
27-05-2008, 17:23
Hell, I don't work for GW, and I don't play Chaos - but even I knew that the Nurgle Deamon Prince exists.

That said, redshirts have never been known for their accuracy have they?

Malorian
27-05-2008, 17:30
I remember going in when my brother was starting to play eldar. The nice red shirt asked what we were looking for and he went on talking about how he's been playing Eldar for years and loves them.

During our conversation he brings up some odd thoughts: (This is the last book)

-You need bright lances for termies because star cannons are only AP3
-Starcannons only have 2 shots (remember this is the last book where they had 3)
-You can fleet and still shoot the platform
-Wraithlords are toughness 10
-And a few other things

Basically this guy really had his facts messed up.

Now I can understand that staff can't be expected to know all the game systems and not even all the rules for even 1 system, but they should know the basic rules for an army they 'love' and 'have been playing for years'.

Hicks
27-05-2008, 17:45
Ok, that was a bad redshirt. The only actual redshirts I've ever encountered where actually extremely knowledgeable of the miniature lines. However, the people at the local game stores (no real GW around here) are as bad as that redshirt.

First of all, if you ask something that's not related to their favorite game, they immediatly point you towards their favorite game's displays and tell you how much better than anything else it is and that they need one last player (you) to join for their upcoming campain.

I wanted to play Heavy Gear and instead of getting usefull infos about that game I was lectured for half an hour about how Warmachine and Hordes is the best thing on Earth.

But back when they carried almost exclusively GW products, I remember asking them to order a metal Furioso for me and they told me that it was a plastic add on kit for the old metal dreadnoughts :wtf: and that there was no way to order it.

Royal Tiger
27-05-2008, 17:55
why are they still called redshirts when they don't wear red??

but still its not as bad as none of them knowing any of the rules

yabbadabba
27-05-2008, 18:04
not knowing the rules - meh

not knowing the model - meh

poor customer service - unforgivable. How hard would it of been to get up, engage in a conversation and resolved the customers needs? Generally GW customer service is fantastic - if a little too enthusiastic at times. This was a very poor example of a staff member at work.

Wintermute
27-05-2008, 18:32
You are aware the Nurgle Demon Prince was a splash release which sold out, very, very quickly?

And, AFAIK its now only available from Direct Sales.

x-esiv-4c
27-05-2008, 18:42
I did not know that.
And neither did the redshirt obviously.

Pink Horror
27-05-2008, 19:32
why are they still called redshirts when they don't wear red??

First to die when the shop runs into trouble?

CapitanGuinea
27-05-2008, 20:06
seem a failure in the ritual brain washing ritual for the retail staff...
(gh gh gh)

anthrax1990
27-05-2008, 20:10
When i first started out i went into a GW after picking up my 3rd ed 40k starter set and ended up talking to the manager. he asked me what chapter my marines were. i told him black templars, and he asked if they were my own made up chapter........ even tho they were on the cover of the rulebook at the time :wtf:

Templar Ben
27-05-2008, 23:41
why are they still called redshirts when they don't wear red??

but still its not as bad as none of them knowing any of the rules

They do in the US. It wasn't until I got on here that I found out about Blueshirts.

JohnOSpencer
27-05-2008, 23:43
why are they still called redshirts when they don't wear red??

but still its not as bad as none of them knowing any of the rules

Umm...they do all wear red. If they don't then you are talking to someone else(at least in the US).
Black Shirt = Manager
White Shirt = Veteran (Chicago Bunker only)

Crazy Harborc
28-05-2008, 02:14
Been lucky at St.Louis Mills.......so far. The red shirts and black shirts have known their (GW's) minies.

My favorite was at an indie store......."Why there has NEVER been a.........like that since I've been here". How long have you been here? "Why, almost a year"..........Heres your hat mr. sales person!!;)

Hellebore
28-05-2008, 02:27
Redshirts are people too, and there is no 'GW test' that they have to take before they start working. It's too bad that he did such a poor job of being a sales clerk, but oh well.

I don't know about that. I've had about 4 friends who became GW redshirts and they described exactly that as a way of assessing their quality. They had to take a test about the game rules of the three core systems and know the product line pretty well.

Hellebore

Iron Father
28-05-2008, 02:51
...and there is no 'GW test' that they have to take before they start working...


it's not exactly a test, because I dont believe it will keep you from being hired, but its an evaluation of sorts, that lets the hiring manager(s) know how much you know about the 3 big game systems

Kinsley
28-05-2008, 03:02
Yeah thats bad service, he is supposed to get up, check either the online store/the catalogue.

Jedi152
28-05-2008, 08:35
Happens now and again. The new American guy at WW is a superb lad, but i managed to confuse him whilst asking about Questing knight blisters.

Warfare
28-05-2008, 09:06
You are aware the Nurgle Demon Prince was a splash release which sold out, very, very quickly?

And, AFAIK its now only available from Direct Sales.

Really? There seems to be plenty of them available here in australia.
If so, glad I got one when I did :cool:

Rick_1138
28-05-2008, 09:34
You are aware the Nurgle Demon Prince was a splash release which sold out, very, very quickly?

And, AFAIK its now only available from Direct Sales.

QFT

However i am getting more and more annoyed that half of the ******* catalogue is online, i like to go into a shop, see what i want, hand over folding money and come home and drool.

this is why when i was at WPS last week i was at FW so i asked to get the chaos renegade stuff i wanted and i did, mmmm shiny!

I hate having to order half the stuff i want for my blood angels army, and eldar.

But at least postage is cheap if ordered instore!

Sidstyler
28-05-2008, 10:13
Eh...that's kinda bad. If you felt so inclined you could probably call and complain about him. But that's kind of a petty thing to do, and it's not like he really insulted you or anything.

Well, he did basically call you a liar and blow you off so he could paint his mini. It's up to you. :D

Royal Tiger
28-05-2008, 10:19
Umm...they do all wear red. If they don't then you are talking to someone else(at least in the US).
Black Shirt = Manager
White Shirt = Veteran (Chicago Bunker only)
oh, well here in the UK every GW I've been in has blue for normal staff and black still for manager

Osbad
28-05-2008, 11:36
You are aware the Nurgle Demon Prince was a splash release which sold out, very, very quickly?

And, AFAIK its now only available from Direct Sales.

So is therefore available for in-store mail order...

A definite example of bad GW-fu by the redshirt.

jfrazell
28-05-2008, 13:56
Interestingly it is in the back of the new demon codex.

Joewrightgm
28-05-2008, 14:22
The staff that I hang out with are amazing, they're really friendly and amazing hobbyists. They do need a little coaching from me every once in a while on minor (Read: obscure) points of the fiction.

Other than that, they are helpful, knowledgeble and competent hobbyists.

theHandofGork
28-05-2008, 14:26
This is the opposite of what normally happens to me- I go an ask for a specific model and they try and sell me that plus a boxed set until I run away. I have rarely found antipathy to be a problem with red shirts.

arch_inquisitor
28-05-2008, 14:36
Bad redshirt that has to be the shoddiest example of customer service I have ever heard of in a GW store. I had a fellow who didn't know what I was talking about when I asked about an apoc kit that I didn't see on the shelves. Though he didn't know what I was talking about
he went into the stock room to check as well thumbed the catalog. Found out for me that they were just out of stock.

By the way he was a new employee, product knowledge had nothing to do with it.

pookie
28-05-2008, 15:06
happened to me ( well Artificer Armour - another Warseer member ) who was asking about the last Khorne Marine Champion, GW staffer was adamant there wasnt one when there is ( 3 variants ) although i think he genuinly didnt know about it, but considering that all they stock is GW products then why he didnt know is a mystery to me, its not as tho i (well AA) was asking about a ral Pantha/rackham mini.

Count Zero
28-05-2008, 15:10
All the staff i have dealt with in GW tend to be great on mini knowlegde, although they are central london stores so maybe they have high standards?

often not just looking for minis but helping with ideas for conversions (like were could i get a heavy bolter for my catachan who are used as a necrmounda gang etc)

Jedi152
28-05-2008, 15:11
Possibly London do have better staff, especially if they are busy stores. Warhammer World has specially chosen staff who are friendly and approachable and have an unparalleled knowledge of the games and models.

electricwolf
28-05-2008, 15:16
Here would be my suggestion:

If it's a store you like shopping at, go talk to the manager but DO NOT mention the "red shirts" name. Just say, "i had this experience and it left me troubled".

I have been playing this game for 14years now and play several 40k armies, one fantasy army, one necromunda gang, and one LOTR army. I walk into the store i frequent most and i know the manager(Jordan), I talk to him about the game, about modeling in general and we get along great. In the same store i've had new employees walk over to me and ask me if i play the game, then they find out that i have more armies than they do and kinda slowly leave me alone.

I did hear of one incident at one of the local stores where a player was wanting to play in the store with some very old GW fantasy miniatures and since the employee did not know they were GW the employee would not allow the player to play in the store.

Imus
28-05-2008, 23:48
Possibly London do have better staff, especially if they are busy stores. Warhammer World has specially chosen staff who are friendly and approachable and have an unparalleled knowledge of the games and models.

London = no

Warhammer World - Jobs are harder to get they usually advertise internally and usually they look for people who are good all round painters, gamers and terrain builders and they like to see examples of everything more so than most interviews for GW sales.


All the staff should have a fairly good understanding of the rules of all the systems, not to the point that they can quote books word for word, though the managers do like it if you can (rulebooks help there). As stated its pretty poor customer service and im sure most managers would have a word with staff member in charge, he/she could of at least gone and had alook in the mini catologue or asked another member if they werent sure.

The daemon prince in question is a very popular model and im surprised they havent heard of seen of it. Probably having a dosey moment, it does happen to everyone, problem is its incidents like these that people remember and generally get reported back and give a bad image. Id say on the whole staff are some of the best in a retail store.

Supposedly there is a change of shirts from blue back to black and the managers getting suits of some sort. Very strange if you ask me.

Pacific
29-05-2008, 00:32
You'd have thought that all of the staff remaining now would be selectively bred super-staff, especially after the cull.

For some reason the colour of shirts for non-managerial staff now is blue, and black for managers. Haven' been red shirts in the UK for some time now (we have a lot more bulls here and there were lots of property damage problems)

EightBall
29-05-2008, 06:58
I generally have good experiences with redshirts. Most all of the employees of the CO Mills GW are very friendly but not overly helpful. I only go up to GW about once a month, but everytime I walk in they ask me what army i play, then try to sell me some blisters, a Cadian Battleforce, and what seems to be the big IG push item these days: a Hellhound. Anyway, the redshirts are usually very helpful but ours don't really try to get past the "hobby small talk" unless you hang out in there for at least half-an-hour until they feel comfortable talking about common stuff like folk-metal and scientology.:p The usual first ten minutes of conversation go, "So what's your regiment named? Have you thought of adding a Hellhound into your list?"

Alright enough on my everyday GW store experience. The real point i'm trying to make is that I've only had one "bad" experience with a redshirt. It was about 5 years ago, and I was visiting one of the GW stores in Washington State. I only played LotR at the time and the "Shadow and Flame" sourcebook was soon to be released. The redshirt there was making smalltalk, trying to sell me a fellbeast. And I just asked him, "So when are the new LotR dwarves coming out again?" he said rather curtly, "Theres no dwarves coming out for LotR." The funny thing is that I had the WD in my car with preview pics of the Shadow and Flame minis, and I'm sure they had a sourcebook in the store by then.
See I can understand an obscure or rare model that there's only rumors about, but a big release with pictures? And he was very condescending in his tone. My dad was with me at the time, and even he knew about the dwarves coming out.

It just goes to show that redshirts aren't always the most authoritative sources on the hobby, but it really depends on the person. A nice demeanor and friendly service far makes up for any lapse in GW knowledge.

Oh and the manager at my local GW still wears a red shirt. He does have four brass stars pinned to it, where the underlings generally only have one star.

Jedi152
29-05-2008, 08:10
You'd have thought that all of the staff remaining now would be selectively bred super-staff, especially after the cull.
You'd have thought so, but sadly there remains in every company people who aren't up to the job, but are friends with the manager/area manager or just good at plain old bulls****ing.

And thanks for the clarification Imus.

slayerofmen
29-05-2008, 08:49
the Redshirts (at least in my area) used to have to wear company shirts while working which were strangely enough red with the Aquila over the left breast but that was back in...like 2000 or some such now they just have to be presentable and wear the GW name tag things.

as for the model, does exist and (again at least here) until the new 2008 catalogue thing came out they were able to order to hold on the shelves, thus a constant supply

Pacific
29-05-2008, 09:23
A quick question which is kind of on-topic (or not) - is the whole 'tuck your shirt into your pants' thing a universal around the globe?

This was the case at the store I worked at (in the UK) .. If the attempt to not be portrayed as nerds was not hard enough already...

Bookwrak
29-05-2008, 16:54
...

Well, where else would you tuck you shirt? Into your hat?

x-esiv-4c
29-05-2008, 16:57
The tucking thing is in the states too.

As for where to tuck your shirt...usually into your pants right? :D

Emperor's Grace
29-05-2008, 17:50
Tucked is always a step more formal than untucked.

I worked in hospital (roughly 15 yrs ago - during school) when the "polo uniform" thing first started gaining ground.

Our boss (being ever the forward thinker) immediately jumped on that bandwagon and replaced our white cotton uniforms with jade green polo's tucked in jeans.

Tucking was actually enforced as part of the uniform.

It was all explained as "making us look more professional" and "less like a hospital". Which is ironic given that we were working in one.

I'm also not sure how jeans make one look professional given that, now that I am a professional, I never get to wear them.

x-esiv-4c
29-05-2008, 17:51
just watch out for the popped collar look.

Crazy Harborc
30-05-2008, 00:11
Polo shirts and blue jeans on hospital workers is "professional"? I don't recall THAT catching on in my area's hospitals. Get "wet stuff" on the front of your shirt. Try taking that wet polo shirt off without getting a wet face.....wet with whatever:eek:

Off hand.....I do think the guys at the local GW store do tuck in their polo shirts??

Epicenter
30-05-2008, 00:38
To the OP:

There's a part of that conversation you forgot.

"There is no model like that." *Goes back to painting.*

"I understand. Perhaps your manager can help me find it. Can you direct me to him or her, please? And can I get your name while I'm at it so I can tell your manager who directed me?"

Vaktathi
30-05-2008, 05:44
You are aware the Nurgle Demon Prince was a splash release which sold out, very, very quickly?

And, AFAIK its now only available from Direct Sales.

Was it? I think my store still has at least one. I thought it was a fairly popular model.

Wintermute
30-05-2008, 07:22
My local indy store was only informed it was splash release on the week of its original release and they only managed to get two of them.

Osbad
30-05-2008, 12:07
A lot of these anecdotes demonstrate something interesting to - the persistence expressed by many in the face of GW's (in its various forms - making stuff "splash release", poorly trained staff member, mail order only...etc.) determination to make a specific model as difficicult to get hold of as possible!

What drives people to "need" that model so much they will fight to get it through hell or high water, at great personal expense both in terms of hassle and money?

Personally my enthusiasm for a particular model (made by anybody, not just GW) evaporates if accessing it involves anything more strenuous than a couple of mouse clicks, and more expense than a couple of quid! No model is worth busting a gut over!

Bombot
30-05-2008, 12:18
...

Well, where else would you tuck you shirt? Into your hat?

Well tucking in a t-shirt is a highly questionable practice as it is, although maybe work demands it.

But to address your question I think you need to bear in mind the difference between US pants and UK pants.

Sai-Lauren
30-05-2008, 12:40
why are they still called redshirts when they don't wear red??

From the day they start working, they last about as long as the security guys that beam down with Kirk and Spock in Star Trek. ;)

The OP wanted to buy something, and the staff member has basically turned down a sale - for whatever reason - and missed the opportunity to try and convert that sale into a bigger one (anything from paints and glues through tools to additional models to go with it).

Maybe he didn't know the range, but if he was the only person there, I would hope he's fairly experienced rather than a new staff member being left alone whilst everyone else goes for a tea/toilet/smoke break.

He certainly should have been more interested, helping you find what you were after if they had it in stock, sorting out an order if they didn't have it, suggesting reasonable alternatives if it's no longer available, or if it had turned out to have been a conversion that you're after, helping you get the right parts and giving you tips on how to put it together.

(As an aside, I worked in retail when I was doing my A-Levels, and I had utterly s**** days when I really didn't want to be anywhere near the place, but I still tried to put a professional face on and be as helpful as I could).

But, I'd actually say that rather than complaining about it on here (cathartic though it may be), write a letter to GW's customer service department. Just mention the store, don't even say the date that you went in.

Pacific
31-05-2008, 00:36
Well tucking in a t-shirt is a highly questionable practice as it is, although maybe work demands it.

But to address your question I think you need to bear in mind the difference between US pants and UK pants.

Yes I meant the UK 'pants' i.e. underwear

I think I just had an aversion to it, based on watching episodes of 'Bottom' (UK comedy) where Rik Mayall's y-fronts were visible above his waist line.

Oh and the fact that it makes you look of questionable sexuality. And you're working in a *********** shop.

Kids dont care. Adults who come in to buy for their kids dont care. Only person who cares is the guy with the shirt tucked in with a dubious sweat patch around the hip area (girth and the dubious material of those shirts does not combine well)

Crazy Harborc
31-05-2008, 02:29
IMHO, GW's habits of holding back clear, complete information, special pricing above GW's usual high street price levels.....Those traits seem to add to the "need" of many GW users to have the latest GW model/minies, book, codex/whatever. If it cost more than usual and or is harder to come by (as in limited time or number made) Gee, it must really be special, gotta have it.

Its been working for GW for a lot of years now.;)

dr.oetk3r
31-05-2008, 02:57
Although it sounds like he was a little bit half-assed about it (which is another topic entirely), alot of the time I think its impossible to know every single model and release in the range, in the same way its almost impossible to know every rule and stat line.

However, if this was the case, and you were emphatic that there was such a model, at the very least he should have hooked out a catalogue or made a phone call to try and help.

I totally do. I rule.

DoktorZinieztro
31-05-2008, 03:05
I'm also not sure how jeans make one look professional given that, now that I am a professional, I never get to wear them.

Depends on your profession and the attitude/image the workplace wants to project.

Personally, I'm thankful the "Look like Manhattan 5th Avenue is your playground" dress codes are eroding quickly and remain with the "big leaguers".

My profession and personal business have more leeway in dress codes, but I still don't wear jeans or t-shirts to the office. There are great khakis and cargo trousers that make you look sharp without making you look overly-casual (never good for serious business hunting... even if you are a "cool" graphic designer or copywriter).

I'll wear tie for a wedding, sure. But I'll be damned if I bring one for meetings with clients or just to work.

Xaskus
31-05-2008, 07:37
If one of my employees did that and I found out..oh boy. First off that's a good way to lose a customer, second off that's a very unique mini and third he should get off his **** and at least consult a computer or catalogue. And I don't know about some of you guys but before I even owned my store I could recall most GW mini's in detail just from a description. Makes me sick, lousy GW employees.

Muse
04-06-2008, 01:38
If one of my employees did that and I found out..oh boy. First off that's a good way to lose a customer, second off that's a very unique mini and third he should get off his **** and at least consult a computer or catalogue. And I don't know about some of you guys but before I even owned my store I could recall most GW mini's in detail just from a description. Makes me sick, lousy GW employees.


So because one GW employee was being useless, youve labeled us all :eyebrows:

Its GW's sales staff that have made the company popular because of customer service, bringing enthusiasm, hobby skills and good product knowledge.

But well done on knowing most models made, how long have you been in the hobby? The staffer may have just been a key timer and did not have your wealth of knowledge.

Gralph!?!
04-06-2008, 03:05
If one of my employees did that and I found out..oh boy. First off that's a good way to lose a customer, second off that's a very unique mini and third he should get off his **** and at least consult a computer or catalogue. And I don't know about some of you guys but before I even owned my store I could recall most GW mini's in detail just from a description. Makes me sick, lousy GW employees.


thanks, i am sure alot of those who work at GW are really pleased by such a comment. :mad:

but yes the staffer seemed a bit lazy from what was said but in the end i wouldn't expect them to know everything about whats in there store,i know i don't but at least knowing about a model they CAN order in for you is at least something he should realise. as it is available in stores as well.

oh and if i were running a store i would mke sure that the staffer knows about all of the games enough to not sound like an **** or at least know about 2 games enough to compensate not knowing anything about the third.

Rubicon
04-06-2008, 11:51
Possibly London do have better staff, especially if they are busy stores. Warhammer World has specially chosen staff who are friendly and approachable and have an unparalleled knowledge of the games and models.

As I've been told by various blackshirts on a number of occasions, Ken (the London regional manager) did try to concentrate all of the best staff in the territory into the Plazaa (Oxford Street) Store since it's the busiest in the country (excluding WW, a point that is apparently a matter of contention between WW Manager Chris and Plaza manager Mark). So they might be considered super staff I suppose!