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View Full Version : Need a lil Chaotic help....



Ambu
27-05-2008, 20:40
Ok, About a month ago I have gotten back into the game after about 5 years. Before I mainly played Dark Angels (w/ Ravenwing) and Orcs though have messed around with a couple of others.

Recently, I have been playing with my friends armies but I am now ready to commit to getting an Army of my own again. I want to do something different both on a play and a modeling scale, but familiar enough to that I wont be lost so I decided on Chaos Marines.

The only Codex I have access to is the 3ed. one ATM but plan on going out to get the new one in the next week when I have a little time to do some model shopping as well.

Here is my question: I am trying to decide if I should create a dedicated Chaos army or a generic one, and if I go dedicated, which Chaos Lord should I create around. Honestly most of the Chaos players around me are not particularly good and build one-trick pony Armys and want to here some more experianced thoughts. This game being a money sink as it is, don't wanna switch mid-stream mainly because I want to get a good over all look to my Army including some modifications (a welcome bonus to this game) to challenge my modeling/painting skills.

Any suggestions?

Lordsaradain
27-05-2008, 20:49
Go for an undivided army and include icons and cult troops from different gods depending on the purpose of the induvidual squads. It's how the current codex is designed to be played. An army dedicated to khorne for example is cool, but it limits you if you want to stay away from the other followers troops, and why would you wnat to give your havocs an icon of khorne for example?

ReveredChaplainDrake
27-05-2008, 21:26
I'm a very firm believer in the potency of the basic Chaos Marine as the cornerstone and epitome of the Jack-of-all-Trades. (In your face, Loyalists! :p) It's true that a CSM-centric list will get hosed at least once by one-trick-pony lists, but that will only work once if you're a good general (and at least fairly lucky) because a one-trick-pony list has no backup plan or contingency for subsequent games, where you are more likely to be able to disable a critical part of their army, having lost to it before. The more games the JoAT list plays in, the better it gets because the opponent is playing their virtually pre-programmed army against a general who can adapt and change his plans to fit the enemy.

Take Khorne Berserkers for example. If you make a list founded off Khorne Berserkers, Khorne Berserkers, and more Khorne Berserkers, you are taking a calculated risk that you will never fight somebody who is better in CC than you. So, what should happen if you get into a scrap with Stealer Shock, or a Wych Cult? Well, at best you're in an uphill fight, and at worst you're screwed. Better instead to take a list of half Berserkers and half units that are good at killing anti-Berserker units. But, with the scope of what qualifies as "anti-Berserker" being as wide as it is, you may want to invest more points in your Berserker counters, such as taking a list of 1/4 Berserkers and 3/4 units that can kill enemy anti-Berserker units. And so on and so on until, little by little, your list moves closer and closer to a point of equilibrium where all your units cover one another's weaknesses.

Sanctjud
27-05-2008, 21:28
"why would you wnat to give your havocs an icon of khorne for example?"

Maybe because they have 4 melta guns on them with a fist champ.... and charging into combat after meltaing a squad of marines...

Seriously... for everyone...broaden the scope of your mind, assuming havocs as using only hvy. weapons is not true.

_______________________

If theme is as important as gaming, then an undivided route is the best. Trying everything out is good esp. with the Chaos Codex.

Though, powerfists and special weapons are the backbone of the army... and generally more bodies the better, IMO.

My 7 Cents.

Lordsaradain
27-05-2008, 22:36
"why would you wnat to give your havocs an icon of khorne for example?"

Maybe because they have 4 melta guns on them with a fist champ.... and charging into combat after meltaing a squad of marines...

Seriously... for everyone...broaden the scope of your mind, assuming havocs as using only hvy. weapons is not true.


Yes, obviously thats true, it wasn't a great example... but a chosen squad will fill out that duty much better as they can infiltrate.

Ambu
28-05-2008, 00:36
Hmmm, a bunch of good input so far, please keep it coming. Though from what im getting from friends, if I make an undivided army, then anything I put, lets say for example, a Mark of Nurgle on will then be considered an elite troop so that limits varient marks I might be able to put out there. Not a big concern, Now I am thinking more as a player then a modeler though and trying to think of ways I can diversify my army while giving them the most bang for there buck.

Torga_DW
28-05-2008, 01:13
the troops remains the same FOC slot, even if marked.

Chem-Dog
28-05-2008, 02:18
To be honest, the most diverse army CSM is going to be Black Legion, Abbadon holds the Favour of all four Chaos Gods and his Legion reflects that by having a large number of Cult troops dedicated to each power.
The basic paintscheme of the Black Legion might not look like one of the more challenging painting options out ther but it needn't be dull, check out this guy (http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/chosen/1/) for an example of a slightly more showy BL Marine.

Another Bonus is obviously, the (chaos) god given right to field Abbadon in your army from time to time :)

If Black Legion don't sound like your cup of tea, I dare you to read Storm of Iron and then not want to do a Iron Warriors army :evilgrin:

First port of call though, drop the old CSM codex, go out and buy a new one, there may just be something in there that makes every other option seem irrelevant, the new codex does cover a lot of relatively new ground regarding post heresy renegades and reading some of the background, or seeing a single paint scheme might be all you need to spark your imagination ;)

Ambu
28-05-2008, 03:21
the troops remains the same FOC slot, even if marked.


Reason I said that is cause I DL a copy of the Codex to puruse (don't worry guys I have a real copy on hold from my FLGS, wouldn't jip them out of hard earned money that way. Just wanted a loook-see), and in Books of Chaos section it says this:

"Force Organization Chart
If a unit that normally occupies a Troop, Fast Attack, of Heavy Support choice on the force organization chart is given a Mark of Chaos other then Chaos Undivided, it will then become an Elite choice instead. If the mark they bear is the same as the army's commander they will then occupy the same force organization choice they did before."

Now as I said, a bit of a newb when it comes to Chaos but can you frild let say Berserkers with the mark of Chaos Undivided or no mark at all. This semms unclear to me ATM but then again my eyes are gettin blurry reading stuff as I am trying to relearn what I forgot and am trying to learn a new army altogether.

Sanctjud
28-05-2008, 03:51
That's the old codex.

We are in the new codex... where ICONS and Cult units occupy the same FoC area... troops.

So a bunch of nothing from all that, sadly. :-(

My 7 Cents.

Gwedd
28-05-2008, 04:22
Well,


I have an army that is entirely devoted to Khorne. Personally, I have many berserkers and I like them. Yeah, there are armies out there that can beat me, but so what?

I am playing an army that I like to paint, that I like the fluff for, and that's the major part of the hobby for me.

Personally, I don't like the undivided or the legion concept. It doesn't do anything interesting for me.

Now, having said that, i am NOT saying that others won't find it interesting. Many do, and that's as it should be.

Gowever, if you find yourself drawn to one particular God, then I say go for it. You'll have a more enjoyable time developing a back story for your army and playing it how you want to, regardless of the win/loss ratio.

That's my 8-cent's worth :)

Blood for the Blood God!

Reaver83
28-05-2008, 07:10
you have 2 choices imho. Cult, can be fluffy but you'll lose as most have massive deficits in their units.

Or go for mix and match. It's a rainbow alliance and there's some great synergy!

also don't both looking at the last codex for unit ideas, too much has changed.

Brucopeloso
28-05-2008, 07:52
Play something you like and that you like to paint, the rest will come.
Personally I started with chaous undecided for balance, then played all 4 of the cult armies and now I am back to undecided.

Have fun

Koryphaus
28-05-2008, 07:58
Yes, read Storm of Iron (you can actually make that army now), then Dark Apostle. I was all set to do a Night Lords army until I read Dark Apostle. No spoilers, but I was really inspired by the clifftop battle with the Elysian Drop Troops grav-chuting in...

(tell you what, it was really nice to see a book where the guard don't get the stuffing kicked out of them!)

So yeah, I love my Word Bearers to bits! :D

Dave_Loken
28-05-2008, 12:49
Go for whatever takes your fancy mate maby start with undivided. If you pick your own paint sceme then latter if you do pick a god theme you could dedicate your units to that god for the fluff

Or buy all the cool toys you like and worry bout the list latter

Ambu
28-05-2008, 13:41
Another Bonus is obviously, the (chaos) god given right to field Abbadon in your army from time to time

If Black Legion don't sound like your cup of tea, I dare you to read Storm of Iron and then not want to do a Iron Warriors army


Yeah, thus far this is the way I am leanin, still not sure though. I REALLY need to get that new codex.

Also, haven't read the book but the Iron Warriors on the base idea sound pretty kewl from what I read of in the codex I have.


Play something you like and that you like to paint, the rest will come.
Personally I started with chaous undecided for balance, then played all 4 of the cult armies and now I am back to undecided.

Have fun
LMAO, that's my main problem. Both as a player and a modeler I have ideas for all the factions, especially for Daemon Princes as a model.