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Dave_Loken
28-05-2008, 09:32
This is my first rant/post so be gentle.

I have been in the minitures wargaming hobby for just over 18 years and realy enjoy workshop games (yes even LOTR) and have played every army at some point exept tau ( for no other reason than time and money)

Recently I have noticed a significant number of complaints about cheesy armies, sad lists and people whining that their armys crap while other armies are being done again.
In the past year and a half I have done an infantry guard list with snipers cos i like the models, an eldar army made up only of models i like and an ultra marine army withs a terminator chaplin that has a thunder hammer cos i thought it would look cool.

All these armies have been reasonably competetive have been a pleasure to play with and no complaints ( exept a chaos player looking in shock disbelif as 30 angry guard grunts ran at him kicking him to death in close combat)

as far as i am aware having nearly all the codex since second, all have been a pleasure to play even on an army budget. The worst I can say is some of them like chaos have been a tad bland or the designers have been a bit enthusiastic like the falcons. I want to hear your oppinions on what makes the codexes so bad these days and why don't enjoy their games as much as people used too
Rant over this is ment to be a friendly thred and i am open to critisism

Epicenter
28-05-2008, 09:35
Would you say you're whining about whining, then? :D

kongnico
28-05-2008, 09:37
honestly, i think the codexes are just as bad/good as they used to be.. however with the advent of the internet, everyone has a channel for crying and thus do so. The only response to whining over codexes/brightlances whatever, should be "show me on the doll, where the bad holofalcon touched you" and then a link to ebay - sell your stuff there and stop your incessant whines :)

Lord Damocles
28-05-2008, 09:41
IMO the problem comes almost exclusively from a chronic lack of playtesting which is evident across many of the codexes. Just two examples which spring to mind:

GW failed to fix the immortal falcon - despite the fact that it's possibly the most well known 'broken unit' to everyone.

GW 'didn't think that people would use two deamon princes with lash of submission' - :wtf:

I'll admit that the situation is better than in 3rd ed. (iron warriors army of doom / alpha legion army of doom / siren prince of doom / black guardian starcannon spam / min-max marine gunlines anyone?) but they still have a long way to go...

Dave_Loken
28-05-2008, 09:42
Im fed up which the whining. A good argument thats different you can come out with both guns blazing if thats the case.

zippy_tang
28-05-2008, 09:48
its strange but i remember when i was new to the hobby..only been playin for around 6 months and whenever something popped up that seemed hard to kill or did alot of damage to my army i just took as a slap on the wrist and went back to the drawing board, but nowadays for some unknown reason the first thing that i think of when a similar thing happens is cheese. i wish i didn't think like that at all but the sad truth is once we have wrapped our heads round the game we seem to notice those subtle things that we may feel to be unfair.

this is why i can't wait for the 5th ed rules..i think it will be a breath of fresh air that will change and fix many things in both the new and old codex's...sure some of it sucks for me but some is very good. bring on the new!

Eryx_UK
28-05-2008, 09:52
Theres a couple of issues here. Playtesting is one aspect that seems to fall through the cracks with GW, and the staggered codex releases means that as one players army gets bigger and better someone elses falls behind (Daemon Hunters is what, five years out of date now?).

Now I don't think thats a blanket reason. Any army regardless of its codex or choices is only as good as the army list, choices and tactics of the player.

samiens
28-05-2008, 09:59
I think the real problem is that some people can't develop batlle tactics- but in fairness there are some tings that are either costed wrong or the rules are too good- Falcons, Harlequins, the monolith and so on. However, what makes people really upset is they think these armies are unstoppable and don't try to find a way to beat them. The last 'cheesy' army I faced got beaten quite easily andc at a 1000 point tournament I saw a 3 falcon list lose to marginally traited smurfs (incidentally I then had to play the smurfs and lost to an infiltrating gunline as my plaguemarines accidentally wore the paper armour leaving me with no answers) Yes some things seem unfair- but I'm pretty sure when someone gets smashed by a 'fair' army nowadays their opponent still thinks cheese as its easier than thinking- they played better than me, how should I improve? Not meaning to have a go at those who do cry cheese over 'broken' lists- but half the fun is beating those armies with a balanced list and watching as they have nothing to fall back on!

Corax
28-05-2008, 10:41
If there is one thing that gamers love, its complaining. In fact, I would go as far as saying that if there wasn't something to complain about, people would complain about that!

The fact is that GW will never be able to do anything that makes everyone happy, and there will always be something that is 'broken', or 'nerfed', or whatever. People have two choices in the end, they can suck it and deal with it, or they can go find something else to do; its not like anyone HAS to play 40k if they don't want to!

Personally, I agree with your general premise that there is too much whining, but I have no expectation of it changing. If it is of any consolation, you learn to tune most of it out after a while...

Colonel Fitzgerald
28-05-2008, 13:28
its strange but i remember when i was new to the hobby..only been playin for around 6 months and whenever something popped up that seemed hard to kill or did alot of damage to my army i just took as a slap on the wrist and went back to the drawing board, but nowadays for some unknown reason the first thing that i think of when a similar thing happens is cheese. i wish i didn't think like that at all but the sad truth is once we have wrapped our heads round the game we seem to notice those subtle things that we may feel to be unfair.

this is why i can't wait for the 5th ed rules..i think it will be a breath of fresh air that will change and fix many things in both the new and old codex's...sure some of it sucks for me but some is very good. bring on the new!

I agree completely - same thing happend to me back in 2nd ed when I realised as a Chaos player that my Predator may as well be loaded for tennis practice when it came to fighting the Leman Russ. I learned the lesson, moved on & tried other tactics. (The time my berzerkers all had power fists upset my mate but we were young!!!) Even the Falcon of doom can be stopped with enough firepower. You just weigh up quite how much you want something dead versus other targets on the board - it's a game of skill & tactics after all & nothing is invincible. (Except the Nightbringer. Except the Nightbringer...:cries:)

tsutek
28-05-2008, 13:40
The whining is definetely an interwebh thang. I hadn't heard much complaints against GW (apart from the prices going up x 3 in 15 years) before I started reading these forums.

Never had heard of "cheese" either.. To me cheese is just an excuse, a show of being a sore loser, never considered anything to be cheesy myself ("war is never fair" TM).. For every measure, countermeasures exist: It's up to the individual to sort 'em out.

It's all too easy to think that all 40k gamers are like the people posting on forums, especially when spending much time on the forums oneself.. This is a big misconception, and one that can be easily gotten rid of by ignoring the browser for a few months.

x-esiv-4c
28-05-2008, 13:46
People winge and bitch online because there is no accountability. It's a lot easier to put your hands over your ears and go LALALALALA when someone makes a counter point online then it is in an actual store.

Victomorga
28-05-2008, 14:02
as a demographic, we gamers are a naturally whiny bunch. get a group of us together on the interweb, and boy howdy you never heard such a gaggle of cryin' nancies in your life.

I think a huge part of the problem is people developing "pet lists." a player will put together an army list that they really like, and after some success with that list they become resistant to changing it.

then a new unit or challenge comes along that their list is ill-suited to dealing with. they lose in a way that makes it apparent that their current build can't handle this new challenge, but the problem can't be on their end, right?

so cry "CHEDDAR!" and let slip the dogs of war,
that this foul cheese shall smell above the earth!

that's not to say there aren't game balancing issues and over / underpowered units out there. there are. but on a whole I think the only players who really have a legitimate gripe are those playing with long outdated codecies who have been left in the dust as the game has moved forward.

Doomseer
28-05-2008, 14:10
The whining is a great source of entertainment, especially when it's based on a flimsy rumour, it really makes me laugh!

Most of the arguments about Monoliths, Falcons and any other perveived to be overpowered units are based around an inability to formulate tactics to counter them, but instead we hear: "GW are satan", "my army is poo", "He/She is cheating", "their list is invincible!", "I'm not playing anymore!"

Hehehe! It's just plain FUNNY!:D

El_Phen
28-05-2008, 14:26
As far as I can tell, the people currently frequenting this thread have little interest in whining about losing/lists/Tau (my pate hate and something I wish would DIE, I digress). I can only presume that, like me, your gaming group is composed of people who don't go for inter-web lists or exploit special rule number 6472. I've come accross one such human before and the level of anger I reached has rarely been topped, seriously, mention this kids name to my friends and in the next sentence they'll tell you how close I came to throttling the little blighter (Incidentally he was a Generic Young Child with Marines). Anyway, my point is that the game is made by the people who play it, cheesey lists are fine and dandy once in a while and when done in a fun and competetive spirit. When done so the player can (and did) say "Wow! I TOTALLY annhilated you! You suck!" I think outbursts are fully justifiable.

Dave_Loken
28-05-2008, 14:29
It is warming to know

Keichi246
28-05-2008, 15:13
Personally - I think it is that the GW designers expect us to be more RESPONSIBLE as players than we actually are. On both sides of the table...

The designers put "hard as nails" units in various armies to give them variety, to match their theme, or to fill a perceived weakness/role. For example - the Eldar Falcon. The Falcon is supposed to be a tough transport - becaus ethe units found inside them are generally weak agianst incoming fire. They wanted to make sure the Eldar player had ANY chance of getting to use those units.

Problem is - the GW designers also feel that it is our own RESPONSBILITY to self enforce Rule #1: Make the game fun - for both players. Sure Harlies in a Falcon is a brutally effective combination. Bringing three pairs of them has a high probability of making the game unfun though - and as such - the player who owns the army should try to avoid doing it. (A good hint - if you are taking the maximum number of a specific configuration of a specific choice - that may be considered cheesy... :D )

However; conversely - each player is also responsible for their own actions. If you get beat down, it may indeed be *your* fault. You may have overemphasized your army towards a specifc goal, you may need to learn different strategies, your dice may have been cold, or you may just have been outclassed by a superior opponent. Suck it up - learn from your mistakes and move on.

*****
This is not to say there may NOT be broken combinations or rules. I also think some people confuse a real discussion of whether or not a specific unit or combination has flawed rules (or is too powerful for it's relative point cost) with complaining that a specific unit or tactic is cheesy.

For example, I personally think the full kitted Holofield falcon MAY be a touch too durable. It's expensive - but it is also very, very, very tough to shoot down. If a unit can absorb THAT much firepower and still accomplish it's mission, there may be a rules flaw in it. The fact that three of them can be taken; all of which can contain arguably the deadliest close combat unit in the game; points to a possible design flaw. Discussion about that SHOULD be allowed. It is only through discussion, and rational thought - that ideas for solutions can come about.

Will I cry cheese, pout, or quit the game if my opponent brings three out? No. I'll do my damnedest to kick his ass with whatever list I have. If he continues to do it repeatedly; I just start pulling out my own "competitive lists" - since that is the game he apparently wants to play. Pretty soon we either get tired of each other, or call a truce and go back to the funner lists...

Necron god
28-05-2008, 15:17
I am alwas whinning :p


Btw I dont think the monolith is broken and my Nightbringer cant stay alive.

Ambu
28-05-2008, 15:53
For the most part, IMO, I agree wwith all the above. I do believe its more on the web then IRL because if you wine during a game people look at you as a bad sport and start not playing with you anymore.

That being said, poor sports or not there are some deficiencies in some armies while others get stuff they shouldn't for the cost they get it at. Instead of trying to find ways around it though people tend to vent here.

All in all guys, its a game. Deal with it, be it by re-structuring your army, going to a different army, waiting for 5th ed. or take your licks like a man/woman and just enjoy it for what it was....a game to pass the time.

Me, I set goals for myself if I am playing with an inferior army and know I am going to get owned. Like seeing how much more damage I can do then I did last time and how many more VP I can get versus the last time and just try to enjoy it for what it is. Hell alot of times I end up surprising myself and winning the game :wtf:

theHandofGork
28-05-2008, 15:55
Though I complain about some of GW's decisions as a company, the recent batch of codecies coming out have all been written very well.

In my limited time at Warseer I've noticed a large movement against waac play, which some have conflated with competitive play. There are plenty of other 40k forums where competitive list building is not looked at as cheesy, but rather competitive.

It seems that people play 40k for different reasons, and even consider what's fun about 40k differently (shock!). Some people like limburger, and to others it's gross stinky cheese.

Lordsaradain
28-05-2008, 17:13
There will always be whining, poverty, war... :P

40kdhs
28-05-2008, 17:18
Problem is - the GW designers also feel that it is our own RESPONSBILITY to self enforce Rule #1: Make the game fun - for both players.

you can't write the rules and expect the players not to use it. Playtesting is the most important part before a codex is released. If you don't do a good job at it, you will open loopholes for other to take advantages.

Flying Toaster
29-05-2008, 09:29
Funny how the most important rule the in the BGB is to have fun and let both players to have fun. So people being cheesy are therefore illegal by what is said in the rulebook which is law! :P

the1stpip
29-05-2008, 09:58
The biggest problem is that some people play the game to have fun, and some play to win.

These do not mix well. I play to have fun. If I get beat then so be it. If I get beat by an opponent who is obnoxious, or who has designed his army to win at all costs, then I don't play him again.

But I don't whine about it.

Renagade
29-05-2008, 10:05
If i had one thing to complain about, it would be the tired cut and paste backgrounds repackaged and sold back to me with a 'new' army list stuck on it. In the last WD JJ said army compositions hadn't really changed since 2nd Ed, so why the need for a new army list reshuffle other then to screw more money out of us. I think i wouldn't have a problem with this, if they done more then cut and paste the background from earlier editions. Maybe i'm too much of an old hand or maybe i would like them to do some creative work for the 12.

Ren

Master Jeridian
29-05-2008, 11:42
Ah, the Whining about Whining thread turned into a whine thread...nobody saw that coming.


The biggest problem is that some people play the game to have fun, and some play to win.

And some shocking people play to have fun whilst trying to win, how disgusting.
Does anyone really play to lose?

Seved
29-05-2008, 14:48
Ah, the Whining about Whining thread turned into a whine thread...nobody saw that coming.

This is the Holy Grail of all whining.

It was the rumour section and all the whining, that got me hooked on Waarseer. It is a lot of other fun things going on at this site too, but it is something special with all the whining. :chrome:

Danny Internet
29-05-2008, 14:53
The biggest problem is that some people play the game to have fun, and some play to win.

These do not mix well. I play to have fun. If I get beat then so be it. If I get beat by an opponent who is obnoxious, or who has designed his army to win at all costs, then I don't play him again.

But I don't whine about it.

For many, playing to win is playing for fun.

Ollieb
29-05-2008, 15:59
Sometimes I just don't get it. Even at the store I now game at, I hear folks complain about how Joe Powergamer always fields an army that crushes everyone because it is so broken and he only plays to win. My first question back when I hear this is "Why play him then?". If Joe Powergamer goes 2-3 weeks with everyone declining to play him, he will either change his list or quit coming to game. Either way the situation is taken care of.

Whitehorn
29-05-2008, 16:00
I wish my last name was Powergamer!


For many, playing to win is playing for fun.

Agreed. I like to beat good players because it's a competition to do so.

I don't like to beat everyone - I'd rather have a hard fought, educational game.

Seved
29-05-2008, 16:06
Max Powergamer!

Sorry, I could'nt prevent it.

arch_inquisitor
29-05-2008, 16:31
I think most people have nailed it, it is mostly personal perception and will whine and cheese no matter what happens.

Even if GW made the ultimately balanced non broken rules, and updated every codex, and dropped prices, and all competitive players started playing purely for fun and not to win, and all cheater poorsportmans started playing fair, and all the fluffers weren't all elitist about composition. Someone would find something to whine about.

And thats an Arch_inquisitor guarantee.

40kdhs
29-05-2008, 17:56
Funny how the most important rule the in the BGB is to have fun

The fun starts with your codex and ends at the table. How can somebody look at a DH codex and have 'fun'.?

One thing which GW designers will never truely understand is their 'fun'. When they play a game among themselves, they are not going to create a cheesy army list to defeat their boss or employees because they work in the same company in a friendly environment. If I play a game with a stranger in the club, do i really care if i defeat him bad.? Not at all, because we don't work in the same company and we don't live together. If you decide not to play or be friend with me again, i'm OK with it because I only see you 1 or 2 a week. If your coworker or employee decides not to be friend with you because you totally anihilate his army every time, you will be out of the door soon because nobody in your company wants to help you with a project.


Until they understand the differences between having fun with your coworkers and strangers, their most important rule is not realistic at all.

It's BIG misconception.

D.J.
29-05-2008, 19:01
I think the game is fun as long as people don't start with the "rule-lawyer" treatment. "I know it says on page 43 that I can't do this, but it doesn't specifically say I can't in the shaded box on page 52. So that means I can."

That's about when the fun starts to die. You can't even be mellow about it either:

player 1- "Would you say these ruins are a 5+ or a 4+?"
player 2- "which ever... I'm not that picky, just choose one."
player 1- "Well they look heavy so... 4+"
player 2- "Okay, cool."
two turns later
player 1- "You really shouldn't get a 4+ from those ruins. The book says 5+"
player 2- "but you said in the beginning that they were going to be 4+"
player 1- "....well that's just not right with what the book says."

It just kills the fun. Don't even get me started on the players who think a patch of grass should be area terrain and hide a librarian on a hill from LOS and allow him to keep hitting me with fury of the ancients without recourse. That starts raising anger levels.......

What was I talking about again?? :rolleyes:

AngryAngel
29-05-2008, 19:03
Listen, just do this. Love your fellow players. Game with good friends, and people who aren't crazy annoying. In the game, hate each and every army you may run into. Hell, have some you hate above all others. For in the end, its a game based around war, based around complete intolerance. Don't whine about it, don't whine about people who whine about it. Just kill them on the tabletop, hate their army vocally if you wish during the game. Hell even trash talk if its that kinda game.

After the game though cheesy list, balanced list, just say its a good game, and respect your opponent. If you win vs a hard list, more reason to be proud. If ya win vs a cheesy list, more reason to be happy.

If ya don't want to play someone, don't play um. You'd be surprised how much more enjoyable life is when you realize you don't need to play against people ya don't like.

Find the people who fit your mold of fun, play with um, and let the hate, trash talk, good natured gaming begin.

Edit @Master jeridian..Nope no one plays to win. I infact try to lose at every turn. However seriously, I do find the fact more people don't play to have fun and still try to win, strange. Shouldn't that be what we're all trying to do ?

Grimtuff
29-05-2008, 19:16
And some shocking people play to have fun whilst trying to win, how disgusting.
Does anyone really play to lose?

Well, not if you've read my sig. ;) I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of people that blur the two together.

Pyriel
30-05-2008, 10:45
the problem is excactly what keichi246 said:
GW think we will be more responsible than we are.this is just ONE type of player community possibilities.
a)community with responsible and/or fluffy players.
b)community with fluffy players but some try to win through strategy and choose 40k as strategy game only due to mass-appeal, would prefer to play something WWII-like.
c)community of type a or b, but 1/2 players are trying to optimize their armies.
d)community that has geeky WAAC players that want to win in a game at all costs cause they are sick-and-tired of losing in real life(i disagree with these ppl but they have rights too, and i am not being sarcastic/ironic)
e)community where players do not believe that optimizing an army is a flaw and they think 40k is a competitive sport, not a game. they actually "don't like fun".(this is also valid;just because we think it's a game doen't mean it can't be a sport)

GW think that only comunities a and b exist, but most are mixed of ALL types of players, and tourneys are COMPLETELY society e imho(usually, at least).so, to balance the game for ALL commusities, imho GW should focus on the e-community: GW should expect us to be completely un-sportmanlike when playtesting, they should try to balance the codexes and rules for the worst kind of abusing possible.a game balanced like that is balanced for all. but they clearly don't do that.
example: an eldar flying circus is battling against an IG savlar chem-dogs army(cc IG lol)..=no game at all.

40kdhs
30-05-2008, 18:14
GW main responsiblity is to make sure that the game is balance. They can't have a wargear, unit, rule, or character in the codex and expect the players not to use it because it's naive.

If it's in the book, it's legal to use. GW is the one to blame in the end.

DoktorZinieztro
30-05-2008, 18:34
Unless your opponent thinks differently and you have to tailor your list to suit his preferences... Which is basically, obliging the panhandlers and whiners. Put in a "mild" way. But it is in the book, so it legal.

Some units are unbalanced, yes. We all know which are these. If your opponent bulks up on his available "megatoys", don't play him... that solves YOUR problem and forces him to address his choice of lists.

If your codex is a "bad" one or gets "phased out", well, GW stuffed you. You have a right to be angry.

However, if neither of the above circumstances applies: You are just whining.

Try to think harder about beating the opponents or stop wanting each and every codex tobe your ideal wishlist come true.

In just two words: GROW UP.

Marius Xerxes
30-05-2008, 19:54
I just think people dont like to lose, and when they do it consistantly, they dont look at themselves as a player, but look at the army and blame it. Im not saying that there arent builds out there that can be brutal, but can not a balanced force played by an exceptional play be just as brutal?

Ive seen the "broken" list armies soundly defeated by veteran players, and seen those same groups of veteran players take a "weak" list and win consistanly with it.

The cries also come from the differances in how people play. Some people play and see this as a game, which the objective of said game is like all games, and thats to win. For others this is a hobby that they enjoy as much more then purely a game and play to have fun with friends and other people who are into the hobby. From local store to Adepticon you will have both types of player in those places and events and its that clash that cries of cheese come from. People who play for fun eventually dont have fun playing the person who uses every "legal" way to win, while the guy who uses those ways puts so much into wanting to win, that when they lose they can become sore losers and claim cheese.

This game, like life, isnt nor is ever going to be completly fair. All the designers can do is their best to make things as balenced as possible. I do not blame them one bit for the creativity of hobbiests and gamers finding combinations and advantages that turn into powerful combinations.

They simply put together the game for us, and sure some things may seem a bit overpowered, but some people like those combinations. They can jsut leave it to the community to police itself on those uses. Comp Scores, Sportsmanship etc are all ways of discouraging the use of such lists cause you will get low soft scores. For the friendly non tourney setting, then friends can police themselves however they wish.

This is why I like playing at my local game store, because soft scores have a high enough place that playing one of these broken armies may get you a Best General award, but a Best Overall is harder to come by if your not playing a more balanced and "fair" force.

George Dorn
30-05-2008, 22:51
I just think people dont like to lose, and when they do it consistantly, they dont look at themselves as a player, but look at the army and blame it. Im not saying that there arent builds out there that can be brutal, but can not a balanced force played by an exceptional play be just as brutal?

M-X, you're on the noggin there.

Lists that are unbalanced, broken or whatever you care to call them are there to be beaten. If you have rock to your opponent's paper then tough, get over it and find some scissors to beat him with.

Going back to the start of this thread, what worries me about the codexes these days is the thought that GW might use the codex to sell more of the new, shiny models put into the latest edition of the codex. I've heard this before "..oh, they only made the harlequins that good to sell lots of them..." but personally I'm not convinced.

Anyway, losing nine out of ten games with my marines means that the codex is useless, not me as a player and when the new SM codex comes out I'll be able to win at least two out of ten games. So there:p

RevenantX
30-05-2008, 23:23
I dont't know if I believe that bit either, George Don, especially since they are not really that expensive points or money wise; I remember the days of the 4 dollar metal hormagaunt...and they was not pretty days. Besides, the way GW maintains such a deathgrip on its own IP makes me think that, while they do like to sell stuffs, it is not their sole (or even their primary) concern.

Still, the point I'd like to make is that GW doen't balance the lists to cater to the hardcore, WAAC gamer. They're more interested in selling a broad range of products to casual gamers who will stick with the hobby and treat it as a hobby and not just as a game, hence their strong focus on fluff and fluff-builds for armies.

I don't think that they imagined the 197 Assault Cannon SM army at 2000 points, because they didn't care enough to test those kinds of lists. (Three 200pt Falcons and 18 Harlequins? Bah, let's get a pint.)

Sidstyler
31-05-2008, 02:42
As far as I can tell, the people currently frequenting this thread have little interest in whining about losing/lists/Tau (my pate hate and something I wish would DIE, I digress).

lol whut?

I'll never get why people hate Tau. I don't hate any army in the game, myself, and I don't pick on anyone for their choice. Every time I read something like that I get the feeling like I've done something wrong by investing money in a model line that appealed to me, and it's kind of annoying.


Besides, the way GW maintains such a deathgrip on its own IP makes me think that, while they do like to sell stuffs, it is not their sole (or even their primary) concern.

Well, you could say they're only ridiculously protective of it because they think they'll lose money if they aren't, not because they actually "care" about it in any way. :p

I also find that odd, they have a lot of references to pop culture and other things in their own work, but when it comes to someone referencing THEIR work (like the infamous Warcraft 3 unit, "This Warhammer costs 40k!"), they go nuts and drag their lawyers into it. That line was pulled out of the game in a patch because of that, if I remember right. It's like "I can do it but you can't", lol...

And the whole Damnatus thing pissed off a lot of people. I too would've liked to have seen that movie.


Ah, the Whining about Whining thread turned into a whine thread...nobody saw that coming.

I'm just trying to figure out where all the cheese is. I like cheese.

RevenantX
31-05-2008, 03:29
It does go good with wine, er...whine?

PseudoK
31-05-2008, 04:35
To add to the whining about whining..

It's quite unfortunate when the internet hatred transfers over to the real world for whatever reason. In the local instance, Eldar have such a terrible name that's it's hardly fun for either player. The Eldar player has to deal with "God, Harlequins/vibrocannons/jetbikes/20 strong guardians/warlocks/runes of warding/fire prisms/pretty much everything is/are so broken!", and the other player has to play an army that they're emotional angered by before the game even starts. It's largely driven me from playing the hobby temporarily.

Fortunately for GW's pocketbook, I like the modeling aspect enough to keep spending too much money. ;)

elvinltl
31-05-2008, 04:37
Gwen Stefani sang: Whine It Up!

Whining adds melodrama to the forum. It gives the extremes and outstanding. If everyone were to come to a mossy concense, the game would be uniform and boring.

Corax
31-05-2008, 05:55
Perhaps we should rename this place Waaahseer in honour of all the whining that goes on!