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View Full Version : Your Master, Lord Kroak: opinions?



Krusty
29-05-2008, 00:47
how do you feel about the big ol dead frog?

Cycorax
29-05-2008, 02:15
Unless your playing 3500 points plus then maybe hes a good choice, but blimey he's expensive even at that level! But its not like your not paying for what you get, he will totally dominate any magic phase and open a can of woop ass, just remember if you lose him then you've lost.

fluff wise he's great :D, greatest demon slayer of all time!

JayMack
29-05-2008, 03:37
Got 3 words for you. Ruination of Cities >.<

stampy
29-05-2008, 03:50
Hilarious if you take him in a 2000pt list

psilophyte
29-05-2008, 04:22
It's a terrible idea to take him in anything less than 4k, in my opinion. At the 4k level, you can still have a wealth of other unit choices, but at lower than that something nasty like the Vortex Shard or the Hellheart can really ruin your day.

The_Dragon_Rising
29-05-2008, 10:23
I run him in a 2000pt list at the moment as i havent the money to get my proper army (with 2nd gen instead of Kroak). So far in 4 games i have not lost with him, he has taken 3 wounds across the 4 games all from 1 bolt thrower.

Taking as many magic missiles as possible and using ruination at the end he is a monster. Ruination is very hard to get off, i am yet to have it off before 3rd turn due to scrolls and miscasts and misfires... but when it does it simply ends the game.

Just for reference my list is:
Kroak
Lvl 2 Priest w/Diadem and Quetzl
Scar-vet w/GW, CotJW, Shield, LA, Glyph Ncklace, Sotek, Quetzl
(1543pts in characters)

11 Skinks w/Scout,Quetzl, Blowpipes
11 Skinks w/ Quetzl, Blowpipes
2* 10 Skinks w/Quetzl, Shields
(283pts in core)

3 Kroxigor
(174pts in Special)

2000 dead on.

Kai Itzah
29-05-2008, 10:45
I thought for a long while that both Kroq'gar and Kroak would be immensely difficult to play in low-point games - well really I just thought Kroak would, but I decided to see if I could make a good Kroq'gar list at the same time. The poster above me is very brave making a 2k list as mine are only 3k - when I made them though I was confident Kroq'gar could do 2k, but not Kroak, in fact I thought he needed much higher points at the time to be really useful, but the list I made was playable. By the way, The_Dragon_Rising, you cannot give your Skinks or your Skink Priest the Sacred Spawning of Quetzl. Anyways, here's my Kroak 3250.

Venerable Lord Kroak 1250pts.

Saurus Scar Veteran - Great Weapon, Light Armour, Shield, Venom of the Firefly Frog. 108pts.

Skink Priest - Level 2, Scouts, 2 Dispel Scrolls. 160pts.

Skink Priest - Level 2, Scouts, Cube of Darkness. 150pts.

Skink Priest - Level 2, Scouts, 2 Dispel Scrolls. 160pts.

12 Skink Skirmishers with Skink Brave - Scouts. 96pts.

10 Skink Skirmishers - Scouts. 70pts.

10 Skink Skirmishers - Scouts. 70pts.

13 Saurus Warriors with Spawning Champion - Standard Bearer, Sacred Spawning of Tlazcotl. 212pts.

14 Saurus Warriors with Spawning Champion - Standard Bearer, Sacred Spawning of Tlazcotl. 224pts.

14 Saurus Warriors with Spawning Champion - Standard Bearer, Sacred Spawning of Tlazcotl. 224pts.

19 Temple Guard with Revered Guardian - Full Command, Shields. 395pts.

9 Chameleon Skinks with Stalker. 156pts.

Now, as you can see, I don't use Special and Rare choices that much in a Lizardmen army, I favour Skink Scouts over Skink Screens and I favour using Saurus Warriors ALOT. But even with all that I think this is a VERY playable list. And this list isn't even very refined, I just knocked it up a few weeks in about five minutes. Kroak is playable 3000pts plus (3250 is just easier :P ) - I tried doing 2000, and I failed miserably because the one thing a Kroak army needs is Skink Priests, and in 2000pts you don't have the points to worry about Priests when you lack troops tremendously.

huitzilopochtli
29-05-2008, 12:27
kai itzah, i beliece he is using a sacred host of quetzel, meaning all skink units and characters must have the quetzel spawning.

i'm in favour of taking kroak in small points games, but i'd never leave him on his own unless i was really desperate. you list though, the_dragon_rising, is really good. might give it a go, if you don't mind.

Math Mathonwy
29-05-2008, 12:38
I played Kroak in a 2000-point tournament under sixth edition and finished above the median. Every time I lost, I lost to a big flying thing (a Forest Dragon and a Nurgle Daemon Prince) and I have very little idea how to truly counter those effectively. Kroak is great in killing masses of troops but flying Terror-causers are his Achilles' heel.

Malorian
29-05-2008, 16:19
No matter what Kroak is a waste of points.

Your opponent will have a dispel scroll saved for just that one spell and 6 dispel scrolls is a lot cheaper than the difference between him and a regular 2nd gen.

Comparing the effectiveness of the gatling slann and Kroak is a no brainer. If Kroak goes gatling he does the same thing for double the cost, and if you go RoC then you aren't doing anything but drawing out 300 points of dispel scrolls with a 1200 point character.

Condottiere
29-05-2008, 17:49
I think it really depends on how many points you are playing. 4000 points may really be the minimum.

Malorian
29-05-2008, 18:04
I would argue that it's the opposite. At least in small games you have the chance they won't have enough dispel scrolls, but in larger games they will only have more and the regular gatling slann is the better deal.

The_Dragon_Rising
29-05-2008, 19:12
i beliece he is using a sacred host of quetzel, meaning all skink units and characters must have the quetzel spawning.

i'm in favour of taking kroak in small points games, but i'd never leave him on his own unless i was really desperate. you list though, the_dragon_rising, is really good. might give it a go, if you don't mind.

That is true it is a sacred host, allowing me 4+save in combat skinks which can act as an unsurprising speed bump for opponents and of course the death lore for the priest. Sure if you want to use the list be my guest.


I played Kroak in a 2000-point tournament under sixth edition and finished above the median. Every time I lost, I lost to a big flying thing (a Forest Dragon and a Nurgle Daemon Prince) and I have very little idea how to truly counter those effectively. Kroak is great in killing masses of troops but flying Terror-causers are his Achilles' heel.

I have yet to encounter a flying daemon but against dragons at least, rolling on the beast table until you roll beast cowers can be useful, then just go for missiles. You should be able to cast 1 or 2 magic missiles, ruination and the beast cowers in a turn and sure beast cowers may be dispelled but ruination is what most people save scrolls and dice for.


No matter what Kroak is a waste of points.

Your opponent will have a dispel scroll saved for just that one spell and 6 dispel scrolls is a lot cheaper than the difference between him and a regular 2nd gen.

Comparing the effectiveness of the gatling slann and Kroak is a no brainer. If Kroak goes gatling he does the same thing for double the cost, and if you go RoC then you aren't doing anything but drawing out 300 points of dispel scrolls with a 1200 point character.

Granted kroak, in my opinion, at least should be worth only around 900/1000pts and is not worth all the points over a 2nd gen but he does have a few things which are useful, such as 6 spells, ruination and drain magic.

Often due to this you can have a gatling kroak, with a few utility spells, which you can cast 3 or 4 of a turn and then finish off with ruination which per turn is major destuction. Ok a mass of scrolls will ruin your day, i played against a list where there were 12 scrolls at 2K but this is not the norm, usually i expect only 2 and at max for 2K 4 scrolls. On top of this i find that my scar vet when coupled with the first shadow (read utility) spell, can get a first turn charge off and kill a mage often taking out scrolls and/ or dispel dice, making Kroak just that bit more effective.(assuming not some dragon, chaos, slaan mage)


Kroak is not as good as a 2nd gen slaan in my opinion in terms of points/power ratio but he is not bad and, as in my case, whilst building up to a 2nd gen list he allows you to play at 2K with low expenditure on your part.

Bob5000
29-05-2008, 23:05
I too play Kroak in 2000pts only because I have not got the models to make 2K pts otherwise , and its a cheap way of fielding a Lizzie Army . I did it with Kroak , the 50 Quid Battalion box , Army book and a Skink Priest .

No joy so far , RoC is hard to get off , even when it does , that misfire dice can do it in .

I have had opponents fear him at first , on the face of it , all those available spells , plusses to the casting and dispell rolls , loads of wounds , the ward save , the free casting dice and the points cost , he must be awesome !... but he isnt , not for those points he is not .
Once the game is over , and Kroak and his unit have legged it off the board , they realise how very easy it was .

The problem is probably excacerbated by the lack of numbers of other units to protect the Kroak / Saurus Warrior unit , and probably my crappy tactics ( Dragon Rising seems to be succesful with Kroak )

I agree with Dragon Rising , he seems too many points over the Slann Gen 2

As I get more Lizzie units , I will be downgrading him to lower Generations , far too many points for 2K

Krusty
30-05-2008, 02:33
instead of bringing downgraded 2k armies, why dont you just make your point total bigger?

anyway...
i got my kroak model today, its awesome even without paint...
ill be playing probably a 2k with him and seein how that goes, nd prolly report back here

Lost_In_Lustria
30-05-2008, 08:07
Any Slann is great until his unit gets surrounded and broken by Fear causing units. It's a very cheap and easy way to win a lot of points. The best counter is to use a spell from Lore of Shadows or Lore of Death that makes your Temple Gaurd cause fear thereby cancelling out the threat.

Feefait
30-05-2008, 14:24
For those who play Kroak in 2000 pts... glad you aren't in my group. First and last time we'd ever play if I saw that. And you don't "need" to take him just because you have the model. You can always use him as a standard slann... not even 2nd gen. Then with magic items and spawns on saurus... wait there were no saurus in your list. Only more skinks... yawn...

I've personally never used Kroak but part of that is I don't see that eh would be THAT useful for the points. In 200 he would be too dominant but in more then that the opponent would have too much to counter him and potentially kill him. I would much rather have a more customized slann. I've never tried the machine gun slann but always think about it. I think were I to use Kroak I'd have to go RoC all the way. I have used Kroq Gar (once) in a 2000 pt game vs. orcs. Didn't finish 3 turns. I got really lucky yes, but him and the Cold Ones just steam rolled everything.

Oenghus
30-05-2008, 14:33
Any Slann is great until his unit gets surrounded and broken by Fear causing units. It's a very cheap and easy way to win a lot of points. The best counter is to use a spell from Lore of Shadows or Lore of Death that makes your Temple Gaurd cause fear thereby cancelling out the threat.

Or slap that fear-causing banner on your Slann/BSB -- that way you don't have to worry about your spell being dispelled at just the wrong second. :(

Condottiere
30-05-2008, 16:03
It sounds like the antidote to Kroak is to blitz him.:)

Tarian
30-05-2008, 18:22
Another option, (unless Lord Kroak has som special rules) is good 'ole Pit of Shades.

N810
30-05-2008, 18:24
nope no special rule... :(
Pit of Shades is the Achiles heel of the slan...

but you better cast it on irrestible force because it will
get scrolled or despelled otherwize.

and don't forget that Kroak knows Drain Magic allready.

W0lf
30-05-2008, 21:23
Hes no where near the extra cost over a second gen slaan.

At 2K hes sooo hit and miss due to being over half your army. At 3K where id suggest his minimum effective pts bracket is id take 2 2nd gen slaans over him every single time. And for how much more?

Bob5000
30-05-2008, 22:51
For those who play Kroak in 2000 pts... glad you aren't in my group. First and last time we'd ever play if I saw that. And you don't "need" to take him just because you have the model. You can always use him as a standard slann... not even 2nd gen. Then with magic items and spawns on saurus... wait there were no saurus in your list. Only more skinks... yawn...



Eh ? I do "need" to take him , otherwise I cant get 2K points games with my Lizzies at the moment , if you want to donate me some exra units ;) .......

Condottiere
31-05-2008, 06:16
Eh ? I do "need" to take him , otherwise I cant get 2K points games with my Lizzies at the moment , if you want to donate me some exra units ;) .......

I fully sympathize - that's why when I started I picked Eldar, less models for the same army cost (and possibly effect).:cool:

Condottiere
31-05-2008, 06:24
and don't forget that Kroak knows Drain Magic allready.

Is that the 6th Edition or 7th Edition version?:eyebrows:

Kai Itzah
31-05-2008, 09:44
6th. But Slann's Drain Magic isn't the same as the High Elf, in that it's much more powerful. Well, as a single spell. High Elves have the ability to cast it over and over again - though it does stop their own spells while the Slann only stops the opponent's spells.

The_Dragon_Rising
31-05-2008, 14:01
The current drain magic for a slaan, cast on any mage at level 3 shuts them down. It renders it nigh impossible to get anything off bigger than a fireball and even then they will be using around 4 dice. If they have multiple wizards all roughly the same- i.e. 5 lvl 2 skink priests in southlands- then it isn't very effective but if they have say just teclis backed up with banner of PD, etc, then their magic phase is ended.

Krusty
31-05-2008, 15:46
The current drain magic for a slaan, cast on any mage at level 3 shuts them down. It renders it nigh impossible to get anything off bigger than a fireball and even then they will be using around 4 dice. If they have multiple wizards all roughly the same- i.e. 5 lvl 2 skink priests in southlands- then it isn't very effective but if they have say just teclis backed up with banner of PD, etc, then their magic phase is ended.

another reason why pit of shades is nothing for kroak to cower at...

TheMav80
31-05-2008, 19:50
At around double the cost of a 2nd Gen Slann, I'd rather just have a tooled out 2nd Gen. Until around 3500-4000 points. And even then...

A 2nd Gen can just do so much more useful things than Kroak. Add an extra power dice to the pool, carry the battle standard, give a unit he is in a ward save. He just isn't worth it.

Though I am now tempted to try out Dragon_Rising's list for funsies.

Bac5665
01-06-2008, 16:25
I will add my voice to those who say lord kroak isn't viable. He's cool, but simply not worth his points ever. I fought against him, lizardmen vs lizardmen with my 2nd gen slaan list. I lost my slaan to pit of shades turn 2 due to irresitable force, and still tied the game in the end, because I had an extra 600 points in my list to play around with. Kroak does not cause fear or terror, and so is very easy to get out of as unit of TG, campaired with a slaan w/ ToP. And he didn't get RoC off once, despite trying nearly every turn. Kroak is simply not worth his point hike over a normal slaan.