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Jerimy
29-05-2008, 19:13
I just finished converting the new high elf dragon model to be used as a wyvern for my warboss. My question is whether or not it is legal to use the chariot base that the model comes with or must I use the "large monster base" that, I think, the terrible wyvern comes with. I may want to use this in a tourney so I want to make sure and get the correct base.

Faustburg
29-05-2008, 19:28
Tricky... while it could be said that it is likely that any dragon would now, if the base chart gets updated, go on chariot bases, it is not as sure with similar monsters that are not exactly, but close to, dragons. Where will the line be drawn? Hydras, Carnosaurs?

The gripe is usually about having old models (dragons and giants) and not wanting to re-base it.... :)

I'd say you should put it on a 50mm base if possible, but otherwise make sure to let the opponent know wich part of the base that "counts" for Terror-test, range, etc. Probably best to choose the front half...

Condottiere
29-05-2008, 22:00
So dragons are now on 2"x4" chariot bases? But I don't have to rebase my old model?

theunwantedbeing
29-05-2008, 22:20
A wyvern goes on a 50mm large monster base.
Although the chariot base the dragon comes on is also fine for conversions.

So you get a choice, one or the other.

Jerimy
29-05-2008, 22:29
Im just tying to see what is official. If the Wyvern comes with a 50x50 base I will probably get one of those although it may not balance the figure well.

I wish they would re-do the wyvern new base or not that model is atrocious. :(

Crazy Harborc
30-05-2008, 01:03
Im just tying to see what is official. If the Wyvern comes with a 50x50 base I will probably get one of those although it may not balance the figure well.......:(

The "balance" part IS important. It is easy to "do the math" if/when whatever conversion is on the wrong size base ( as in because of balancing). I say do try tacing it on the correct base.....At the same time if you have a great looking "came with the dragon" base.........

I do suggest talking it over with some opponents, ask them what they think.;)

Condottiere
30-05-2008, 05:23
The "balance" part IS important. It is easy to "do the math" if/when whatever conversion is on the wrong size base ( as in because of balancing). I say do try tacing it on the correct base.....At the same time if you have a great looking "came with the dragon" base.........

I do suggest talking it over with some opponents, ask them what they think.;)

The base is important, because if you are using a chariot base on a dragon, any flank attack can become potentially devastating, since you can then have six cavalry models attacking. :eek:

Braad
30-05-2008, 07:24
Hah.... When my wyvern was still on a 50x50mm base, he alsways fell on his mouth when placed on a grass mat. So I glued a second 50x50mm base on, so he is also on a chariot. Anyone who cares about this, I tell to just consider the frontal base to be the one used for everything and ignore the one on the rear. So you could do the same. Just somehow mark the front 50mm and tell people that is the actual basesize.

Faustburg
30-05-2008, 13:52
So dragons are now on 2"x4" chariot bases? But I don't have to rebase my old model?

Since 50*100mm bases is what the current dragon comes with (just as 50*75mm is the size of a giant now), it really should be used. At least if you are playing High Elves, but reasonably for other races as well...

If you don't want to re-base an old model, place a large monster base (or cavalry base for the giant), or simply a same sized piece of card (so people don't go all "Waaa! GW is forcing us to buy bases!"), preferably textured and painted to match your original base, behind the model for purposes of Terror Tests, Flank charges, March Blocking, ranged attacks, scattering templates, or whatever situation you need to define your models position in.


If you don't you will have two types models, old and new dragons and giants, bought as the same list entry at the same point costs, being different in how they play.

Which obviously is not right.

TheNewOracle
30-05-2008, 17:36
IMO the cons of the larger base acutally outweigh the pros (you are much more likely to be hit by guess range war machines with the larger base).

The most important factor is that the frontage of the base be the same, and it is in this case.

IMO just play with the bigger base size.

Faustburg
30-05-2008, 18:19
Be vary reasoning that the cons should outweigh the pros...

While it well may be true, chances are good the two effects not coming into play the same game, and the opponent who only got the "pro" against him is cheated.

EvC
30-05-2008, 19:38
The only rule for monster bases is "any base/ no base". So basically anything goes, but if you abuse the very open ruling, be prepared for opponents to tell you to bugger off!

xragg
30-05-2008, 20:05
Is there a rule saying the small side has to be the front for the dragon? Could you base the dragon so that his front is on the 100mm side? I know the small end is meant to be the front, but is it really ever stated anywhere in the rules for any non-square base? I never really thought about that till I read this thread.

Faustburg
30-05-2008, 20:39
While nothing is written on the dragons specifically, and you will have to go by how the model is shown, for chariots (same base), it is set by standard language and established notation. You write things out as [X,Y], not [Y,X], and assuminging the area has a direction ("to the front" here) it is aligned with the observer.

Game rules follow everyday language unless specifically noted, otherwise everything breaks down quickly...

][nquist0r
31-05-2008, 00:05
Fuastburg, it isnt a dragon in question here, it is a wyvern...

Faustburg
31-05-2008, 00:30
[nquist0r;2659309']Fuastburg, it isnt a dragon in question here, it is a wyvern...
][nquist0r, I was replying to the related question xragg posted... read the thread before you post, I was even the one giving the first answer to the original query above... :rolleyes:

Crazy Harborc
31-05-2008, 02:41
As far as I know......you are expected to mount the monster on the base it came with. Normally for several years now that means a 50 by 50mm square base.

As far as mounting a monster side ways on a extended base/chariot base/ etc. The head and neck are usually at the end between the fore/front legs atop the chest of the beast.

Condottiere
31-05-2008, 05:50
Are Dragons the only ones on a 2"x4" base? What about wyverns? Besides the size of the model, what other criteria would apply: 5+ wounds, strength 6+, etc?

EvC
31-05-2008, 11:56
No criteria, again. Stegadons, Hydras and Corpse Carts do come on chariot bases as well. This is in spite of the fact that the Hydra is pictured several times in the main rulebook on a 50mm base.