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stwess
30-05-2008, 12:29
So i quit Fantasy abour 1 1/2-2 years ago and back then was playing skaven clan skyre (ye ye i know). So anyway i am looking to start again and still love skaven background and the army models and rules.

Instead of going the route of one of the clans i figured id go for a competative and background heavy army. I've decided to base it on a made up clan that is a fanatical and magic dependant, where any rat capable of wielding any magic is held in high regard.

Lords
Grey Seer
Eye Of The Horned Rat

Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Dispell Scroll

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Dispell Scroll

Core Units
26 Clanrats
Musician
Standard Bearer
Rattling Gun

25 Clanrats
Musician
Standard Bearer
Rattling Gun

25 Clanrats
Musician
Standard Bearer
Rattling Gun

2 Giant Rat Packs

2 Giant Rat Packs

4 Rat Swam Bases

14 Night Runners
Extra Hand Weapon

Special Units
20 Plague Moks
Full Command
Umbranner

3 Rat Ogre Packs

Rare
6 Censor Bearers


The Clan Rats will be used as an anchor to take the charge and hopefully stick around to allow me to flank with the larger uglier and slightly crazed rats.
The swams are most likly to be used to tie up anything that could cause me major problems notably heavy cavalry or those nasty lords with nasty equiptment or terror causing units, if there are none of these they will be most likly used to rush warmachine crews or gun lines.
The Night Runners are also there to move up the board quickly to tie up warmachines or things like handgunners.
The list Stacks 12 powerdice and a couple of scrolls if i realy need em.

all C&C welcome, but go easy on me ;) ive been out of the game for a bit.

btw it comes to 2000pts exactly

Gimp
30-05-2008, 12:57
I would add a screaming bell because it looks cool and gives you more magic.

Ward.
30-05-2008, 13:08
You don't need that many night runners in one unit, split them into smaller groups or get a small group and some gutter runners (poisoned hand weapons are a must).
Also rattling guns aren't as useful as they once were, but everything else looks good enough even if the rat ogre's are likely to get munched without anything to screen/ remove incoming fire.

stwess
30-05-2008, 14:10
how about i drop one rattling gun, make the 14 strong unit of runners in 2 units of 6 and take 35 slaves with a musician to shield the more important units (ie the ogres and monks)?

Ward.
30-05-2008, 14:34
That should work, although a unit of 20 slaves will do the same job as 35.

Have you gotten around to reading the 7th edition rules yet? swarms are pretty useless these days because they take additional wounds like the undead (meaning they can't hold anything in place for long). So if it was me, I'd either pay the points to give them poison attacks or drop them for the slaves, thin out the nightrunners and invest in a small unit of poison hand weapon wielding gutter runners to take care of warmachine crews/ wizards (that should help to keep your rat ogre's safe).

==Me==
30-05-2008, 14:44
Seems a bit one-dimensional and boring, probably stemming from so much magic. I'm surprised you didn't take any Jezzails and complete the image ;)

Your Grey Seer is going to need some protection, a Tenebrous Cloak is a cheap ward save to keep him safe.

Engineers could use some more diverse kit. I like the Death Globes, Warpstone amulet approach. Skitterleap him into the enemy's rear, lob some globes and zap anything else. The 4+ ward will keep him alive longer. Storm Daemon is also useful. How about the Headsplitter for any big monsters you'll run across?

You need slaves, 3 units of 20 at bare minimum. They're so cheap and infinitely useful I'm shocked you didn't take any. You can pay for them by ditching the worthless Rat Swarms.

NRs need to be split up, 14 is unwieldy and will get panicked off the board easily. I like 2 units of 6 with either hand weapons or slings, and maybe a cheap unit of 5 nekkid if you can afford it, which can be used to screen the Monks and keep them from going nutso.

Speaking of which, more monks never hurt, I like 24-30 fielded 6 wide for extra attacks.

The biggest problems you're going to run into are being out-horded, getting shot up, psychology, anti-magic and monsters. You only have 157 models, not much for 2k of Skaven. You don't have much to handle war machines, a Tunnel team would help, or skitterleap that Engineer around frying crews. With a max of Ld9 in your clanrats and no BSB, Psych is going to be an issue. Dwarfs or any army with lots of anti-magic is going to hurt a lot, since the majority of your killing power is locked up in your mages. Monsters and really tough enemies will cause you problems unless you hit them with lots of Warp Lightning.

Hope that helps, good luck

fubukii
30-05-2008, 16:58
seems like a ok starter list a few things that struck me though

Weapon teams are very easily killed now, no targeting restrictions means most ranged attacks can and will kill them, just something to be aware of before you spend 180 pts on 3 wounds at toughness 3, If you dont plan on seeing any shooting in your enemys army by all means leave them in there though.

-Grey seer needs protection be it regeneration, 4+ warp, or the tenberous cloak, other wise he will probably dry himself and miscast to death
- None of your warlocks have storm daemon, or the warpstone charm this is a travesty to all that is skaven! (free d6 str 5 hits, and being able to reroll 1 dice per game? come on )

- Id drop the ratling guns, and add champions to your clanrat units giving your mages more protection in cc
- drop the ratogres, ironguts are better if you insist on a ogre sized model, and it looks like you have a rare slot open to take them
- Drop the 2hw on the night runners and split them into 3 units of 5 they arent gonna kill anything but the lightest of foes you would be better off just using them to redirect charges and for deployment advantage.
- drop the rat swarms they very over priced and not very useful in 7th edition due to crumbling.
-giants rats are easy to panic and have al low ld im not a huge fan of them but if you insist.
- Plaguemonks are a little out of place in this army, they are supposed to be a tough combat unit, but they arent unless you give them a plauge priest to be honest. the 11 str 3 attacks will barely manage to kill 1 or 2 empire swordsmen. Id suggest swappin these out for more dependable and lovely clanrats, unless you really really want those PCB in the army
- For unit sizes i find clanrats need to be 25-29 men strong with full cmd, while slaves are good at 25 with just a musician

-now for stuff to add you need slaves, your army is very low in number for a skaven army slaves are the backbone of the army u should always have a slave unit for each clanrat unit for the body count alone Not only does it give you alot more models, it increases your ability to control the field, redirect charges, get flank charges, and most important outnumber your enemy in true skaven style. In addition i may suggest swapping the seer with a warlord for extra ld but thats personal preference. Id also add the any of following to the list:

-Gutter runner tunnel teams (4-6 man team with posioned hand weapons) - great at killing mages, helping out in combats, beating missle units and warmachines alike.
- Jezzails (i like using either 4 man units or 9) great at dealing with things the skaven army cant handle in combat (bloodthristers for example and dragons) good at killing knights as well.
- WLC i normally field 2 of these bad boys, sure they can be a bit random at time but with the shooting into combat rules we have you can easily shave a rank or 2 off of a unit with a moderate cannon shot. str 4 and up is good vs most things, they also can shoot through woods and dont randomize hits when shottin into combat. great at killing multiple wound targets. (stanks, bloodthrister, ogres)

stwess
30-05-2008, 21:52
After reading through the comments ive re-vamped the list quite a bit. I decided to keep the Monks for fluff reasons but have gone with dropping the Giant rats and rat ogres because of their limited use/questionable effectivness, I am however unsure if i wish to leave the ogres out so comments on their effectiveness or use in this type of army would be much appreciated.

Lords
Grey Seer
The Tenebrous Cloak
Dispell Scroll
Eye Of The Horned Rat

Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Storm Daemon

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Storm Daemon
Dispell Scroll

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Death Globes
Dispell Scroll

Core Units
25 Clanrats
Full Command

25 Clanrats
Full Command

25 Clanrats
Full Command

25 Clanrats
Full Command

5 Night Runners

5 Night Runners

5 Night Runners

25 Clanrat Slaves
Musician

25 Clanrat Slaves
Musician

25 Clanrat Slaves
Musician

Special Units
20 Plague Monks
Full Command
Umbranner

5 Warplock Jezzails

5 Warplock Jezzails

Rare
6 Censor Bearers

Warp Lightning Cannon


C&C welcome, one thing i should say is that im thinking of dropping the runners completely and going for the slightly more flexable gutter runners. thoughts?

Ward.
31-05-2008, 02:45
Gutter runners are awesome (when used correctly of course). My last game they almost killed off a unit of bloodletters with a herald (I hit him in the side and poison did it's job, but I forgot about the bonus for flanking).

General Squeek Squeek
31-05-2008, 07:47
I wouldn't ditch the night runners so quick they are amazingly useful and dirt cheap. First when your opponent sees thats its only a t3 ws3 1 wound model he will probably just ignore them.

The real trick is that they should never see combat and instead use them to run behind any combat that you'll win. This way their unit strength 5 will auto kill the enemy as they run through them. Plus later in the game they can be a real spoiler as they claim or contest table quarters.

I say take 2 units of 3 tunneling gutter runners with poison weapons. This can be done by first dropping the slaves down to 20 (trust me you don't need more then that w/ slaves). Second get rid of the unit champion on the plague monks as its not cost effective. Also you dont need more then 2 dispel scrolls especially with 7 dispel dice.

After that you could either remove the umbranner and 1 censor bearer or maybe drop a few clan rats. This will let you have some tunnelers that will pop up and dish out 6 poison attacks.

On as a personal preference I wouldn't take unit champions on any of the clanrat units. If your warlock gets challenged run to the back and make sure that hes always on the end of the unit to minimize attacks against him if hes not challenged. Those 40 pts spent on unit champs could go elsewhere and be much more useful.

stwess
31-05-2008, 11:32
hmm would it be worth dropping the monks totally and therefore the censor bearors freeing up 282 points, getting the 2 units of runners and having 180pts to spare which could be spent on a reliable flanking unit like stormvermin (which i have mixed opinions about) or some globadiers (again mixed opinions). or just some more rats.

Although i am a fan of Censor Bearers

General Squeek Squeek
31-05-2008, 17:52
Ah if its censor bearers you like get just 10 plague monks with extra hand weapon standard and then get the censor bearers. this will still free up a ton of points for gutter runners. In the current edition storm vermin are kinda a point sink.

Wolfmother
31-05-2008, 20:33
do you really need 4 units of clanrats as they arnt great in combat and will probably clog your deplotment zone. Maby drop a unit and add to the plauge monk unit also i would prefer to have one unit of ten jezzails as they panic easily and they need to be in range of the general haveing 10 makes it harder to panic them. finaly i would drop a unit of night runners and add some poisoned wind globes they are really good against heavy cavalry and treemen:) they have nearly always made there points back for me.

stwess
31-05-2008, 22:19
Ok i have re-re-revised my list again now :) taking some of the suggestions.

@Wolfmother i am using the Clanrats as the anchor taking charges so that i can flank with the more useful units. 4 may seen a lot but on a ~ 6x4 board 7 units can set up relativly comfortably with space to manuver.

Lords
Grey Seer
The Tenebrous Cloak
Dispell Scroll
Eye Of The Horned Rat

Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Storm Daemon

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Storm Daemon
Dispell Scroll

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Condensor
Accumulator
Death Globes
Dispell Scroll

Core Units
25 Clanrats
Full Command

25 Clanrats
Full Command

25 Clanrats
Full Command

25 Clanrats
Full Command

6 Night Runners

6 Night Runners

25 Clanrat Slaves
Musician

25 Clanrat Slaves
Musician

25 Clanrat Slaves
Musician

Special Units
10 Plague Monks
Banner
Extra Hand Weapon

10 Warplock Jezzails

3 Gutter Runners
Tunneling Team
Poison Hand Weapons

3 Gutter Runners
Tunneling Team
Poison Hand Weapons

Rare
6 Censor Bearers

Warp Lightning Cannon


Feel free to continue picking it apart

General Squeek Squeek
01-06-2008, 08:36
I still think the slave units are too big. At most they should be 21 ( so it takes 6 kills to panic). Remember these are sacrificial bait units. thats 24 points you could potentially use to buy magic equipment or bulk up the clanrats that your general is in.

fubukii
01-06-2008, 17:47
25 slaves is good for numerous reasons.

Yes they are most likely throw away units, but at 25 strong it takes more kills to reduce the slaves ld bonus (which is important dont want your unit that is supposed to redirect a charge panicking off the table) and in addition this gives them the ability if needed to get their hands dirty in combat and maybe win a fight or 2 vs weaker units. Aslo makes them a better tarpit (good at holding dragons and other stuff)