PDA

View Full Version : Return to 40k 3 editions later



The Clairvoyant
30-05-2008, 18:56
Having last played 40k in 2nd ed (apart from an intro game when 3rd came out and was suitably unimpressed), I've just pre-ordered the new 40k book as it'll be nice to get back to the gane that first started me off in wargaming and have access to all the new cool races etc.

I have a 20k point ork army (from 2nd ed) along with a 5k marine army and a 2500 pt tyranid army and am really looking forward to the new rules.

From what i've read, the new 5th will be closer to 2nd than the previosu editions but i'm still concerned with the way the rules will interact with the models i have.

I have loads of ork warbikes, a battlewagon, various blood axe tanks and loads of ork boyz which from looking at various things leads me to believe that the ork clans are gone and are now redundant.

Can anyone shed any light on how a 2nd ed army can be used in later 40k versions? Can i still have orkified tanks? Can i still use a mob of bad moons with heavy weapons? Can i still arm my tyranid warriors with boneswords and a barbed strangler? Can my devastator squad still have 4 heavy weapons?

neophryte
30-05-2008, 19:00
You picked a great time to be coming back with Orks - they just got a new codex which is 5th edition-ified. In fact, they haven't had one since early in 3rd. You should check it out, you will be able to use lot of things you have in either unified or themed lists using just the basic rules.

Lots of shoota boyz is just ded 'ard come 5th.

Tonberry
30-05-2008, 19:00
Can i still have orkified tanks? Can i still use a mob of bad moons with heavy weapons? Can i still arm my tyranid warriors with boneswords and a barbed strangler? Can my devastator squad still have 4 heavy weapons?

1) yes
2) yes, but rather than 'bad moons' they'll just be Orks
3) Boneswords are only for Hive Tyrants, but the Barbed Strangler is a yes
4) yes

Welcome back, and 3 editions later we once again have Vortex Grendes :)

carlisimo
30-05-2008, 19:05
From what i've read, the new 5th will be closer to 2nd than the previosu editions but i'm still concerned with the way the rules will interact with the models i have.

I have loads of ork warbikes, a battlewagon, various blood axe tanks and loads of ork boyz which from looking at various things leads me to believe that the ork clans are gone and are now redundant.

I think 5th might be closer to 2nd in spirit, but not in gameplay style. They're trying to speed things up even more, rather than the opposite. Still streamlining. The similarities might be that things kill faster, and the army lists offer more freedom. They let you make your army fit the fluff if you want, rather than taking a prescriptive approach like more recent editions.

And yeah, clans are something you do for modeling and painting purposes, not for rules. It might be one of the more controversial changes since they've done it across the board... as an Eldar player I like the new way quite a bit.

IJW
30-05-2008, 19:08
I have loads of ork warbikes, a battlewagon, various blood axe tanks and loads of ork boyz which from looking at various things leads me to believe that the ork clans are gone and are now redundant.

Can i still have orkified tanks? Can i still use a mob of bad moons with heavy weapons?
Orks are reasonably easy to convert from 2nd to current. Orkified tanks are definitely in, you Bad Moon heavy weapons would probably do duty as Lootas or perhaps as Flash Gitz.

The Clairvoyant
30-05-2008, 19:08
I always hated vortex grenades. Not as much as virus grenades, mind!
Damn you painboy for forgetting to take the vaxxine squig! :D

I'm glad that my ork boyz will still be usable in some guise. Shame about the tyranid warriors though as i have several armed with boneswords :(

I think my biggest gripes in my intro game to 3rd was that the howling banshees i was using weren't allowed a 'its gonna blow' move after blatting a predator (and consequently got blown up) and that the lascannon on platform with the guardians was forced to move when i decided to move them to get their shurikens in range. *shakes fist*

neophryte
30-05-2008, 19:31
There are some h2h tyranid upgrades that you could count the bone swords as (don't remember the exact name, but either give them rending or make them count each wound as 2) so it isn't too terrible.

leonmallett
30-05-2008, 19:33
There are some h2h tyranid upgrades that you could count the bone swords as (don't remember the exact name, but either give them rending or make them count each wound as 2) so it isn't too terrible.

Scything Talons and Rending Claws are the main two, although Warriors can also take Lash Whips.

I'd be tempted to snip off the swords, reverse the blade to come down from the handle part/hilt/basket and count them as Scything Talons.

carlisimo
30-05-2008, 20:13
I think my biggest gripes in my intro game to 3rd was that the howling banshees i was using weren't allowed a 'its gonna blow' move after blatting a predator (and consequently got blown up) and that the lascannon on platform with the guardians was forced to move when i decided to move them to get their shurikens in range. *shakes fist*

I don't think either case will be changing. The first one is one of those finicky rules that they've really cut down to keep things simple, for better or worse. There are simply fewer bonus moves, less second-chance rules. But vehicles don't blow up nearly as badly as in 2nd edition.

As for the second issue... 40k is now a game about squads, not individuals who have to maintain coherency. I'm reminded of the time my Vyper pilot was killed, the gunner tried to take his place at the helm but failed a roll and fell to the ground and became a unit of 1. The new rules would hate that kind of thing! Squad-based thinking did speed up the game quite a bit.

keatsmeister
30-05-2008, 21:39
My big gripe going from 2nd to 3rd, and to an extent 4th was the depth of detail you could use, and the variety open to you. As previously replied, it's a lot quicker now, long gone are the days a 1500pt game would get a turn a piece in the hour you had after school/work. I think you'll be pretty pleased overall with 5th ed.

Painnen
30-05-2008, 22:03
Guess I'm not the only one coming back to 40k now that the gameplay has taken a change for my liking.

I too played 2nd Ed. Though the armies are long gone, (5k orcs, 5k eldar) the fast pace of 5th seems to be what the doctor ordered. I'll be playing 'Nids now though. With all that consolidating crap gone, we get some pure cause and effect, skill based assaults.

Durath
30-05-2008, 22:23
I always hated vortex grenades. Not as much as virus grenades, mind!
Damn you painboy for forgetting to take the vaxxine squig! :D

Actually, you won't have to worry about the Vortex Grenade unless you play Apocalypse... which brings up a point I don't think anyone else has touched on...

The 40k of (imminently) 5th edition is actually comprised of two separate games...

For the competative player, whom Tournament play is their mainstay, the core rules and Codex(es) are what you have.

For the fluffy, thematic oriented gamer that wants to see massive carnage, or titanic battles with epic sized armies, you have Apocalypse.

Many of the 2nd edition rules are reinvented in Apocalypse. As such, there is a tinge of the same 2nd edition un-balance in them. Bear in mind, Apocalypse was made with "fun" in mind. Not balance per se.

Thus, the vortex grenade is back, as are "Strategy Cards" (Now known as Strategic Assets)...

Anyhow, if you liked 2nd, play apoc. If you thought it was too imbalanced, stick with tourney play.

The Clairvoyant
30-05-2008, 23:26
My big gripe going from 2nd to 3rd, and to an extent 4th was the depth of detail you could use, and the variety open to you. As previously replied, it's a lot quicker now, long gone are the days a 1500pt game would get a turn a piece in the hour you had after school/work. I think you'll be pretty pleased overall with 5th ed.

well this is the thing. I never found 2nd ed slow.

We'd play a 10k point game in a day. A 1500pt game we'd play in our school lunch hours and get 4 turns done.

Mind you, we had our blanket statements that made things quicker - "Everything is on overwatch unless it moves or shoots" which is what the basic rules were anyway. If you moved or shot, you lost your overwatch, so much easier to just say everything was on overwatch and then cancel it by either moving or shooting.
Similarly "Everything starts the gane hiding if its in cover"

Also with a lot of the combats, it was quick - "This terminator vs that ork, oh the marine won, thunder hammer so no roll to wound, you have no save. Dead. Next!"

Also we'd tend towards declaring charges and moving chargers in one go unless it was likely trhat someone else charging could interfere, or some compulsory movement.
The way we played, 40k was a bloody fast game and the streamlining just seemed unnecessary.