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KrisPicman
31-05-2008, 06:23
I am really liking the look of these baddies.
I just have no idea on how to use them.
I have the book and nothing else please do your best in giving me an in-depth explination of this army, because I really want to game with them and have fun but noone I have talked with outside of this site can really help me to understand the concept of this gory army.

p.s. To whom it may concern please do not move this post into my other thread. I would like to keep this thread strictly Vampire Counts so it doesnt get completely confusing thank you.

Heimlich
31-05-2008, 07:27
Alright. with Vampire Counts, you're army is generally based around you're heroes. With being allowed one-hundred points of vampire powers. As well as one hundred points of magic items, you're heroes will be some of the most versatile (so far) in the game. You can pretty much go magic heavy,combat heavy, or have a nice balance of both. The Vampire Lord has some of the best stats in the game, and are also a Lvl 2 Caster. The Thrall, being allowed fifty points of vampire powers, and fifty points of magic items also makes them a pretty bad ass character, with many tricks up their sleeves. Last but not least is the Wight King, with a Toughness of 5 and 3 wounds it is one of the best battle standard bearers in the game.

For you core there are Zombies ( they suck, never pay for them, just raise them, if you really want to spend the power dice....)Skeletons, which generally should be used with hand weapon and shield. Skeletons are pretty cheap, and everything in the army is immune to psychology and causes fear, so try to outnumber and survive most combats.
There are Ghouls, which don't wear armor like the skeletons, but have a toughness of 4, and 2 poisoned attacks each, which makes them a threat to low strength units.
There are Dire Wolves which are fast calv, I generally like to use them in units of 5, to prevent march blocking and units with frenzy running around. There are Bat Swarms which move 10 inches, and are pretty cheap in points too. Last is the Corpse Cart, it comes with a Bound Spell which makes all units within 6 inches ASF. It also has two upgrades, one makes an extra model be raised with Invocation of Nehek, the other gives any enemy casters within 24 inches -1 to their casts.

Now my favourite, the special units :D

Grave Guard, use them with hand weapons and shields, their purpose is not to die. Use their unit champion to accept challenges, its funny when killing blow goes off, and generally when someone challenges a Vampire Lord, it's bad news ( Piranha Blade comes to mind....). There are Black Knights, which are etheral calvary, so you can pop them into terrain, and give your enemy a small nightmare. No pun intended. As for other units, you get Flyers with 2 wounds, they fly 20 inches, but are frail, so hunt down war machines. Then there are Spirit hosts, which are also cool, because they are an etheral swarm.

And Finally, the rare units. You have 4 Options, the varghulf, which is a Vampire Werebat with a crap load of special units. Cairn Wraiths and Tomb Banshee, which is a VERY good unit, since wraiths have a Movement of 6, 3 Strength 5 Attacks, and they are ethereal. You also have the Black Coach, which is a Death Wagon that gets buff throughout the game. Last are the Blood Knights, they are pretty much amazing, Doom Hammer, but they are A LOT of points, so use them wisely.

That is all I can help you with, and I hope I was of service.

sabre4190
31-05-2008, 16:37
As far as strategy is concerned, here are a few things I have found useful while fighting vamps.

Fear is a great bonus. However, if you don't outnumber your enemy, it becomes significantly less effective. This is pretty easy to fix: take big units of skelletons. Hand weapons and shields will ensure that you sustain minimal casualties (this is more for CR than staying alive though). You should always try to get the full +5 modifier before walking into a fight (3 ranks, outnumbering, banner), because you will rarely outfight enemy infantry and need to overwhelm cavalry. Still, the enemy can take big units too, so you need an edge. Thats where vampires come in. Don't go all out on upgrades, just take the most efficient tools possible. Great weapons seems to do the trick in most cases. Even if you lose the early stages of combat, that big block of skellies will not go away.

Still, there are more than a few things you need to worry about. The first is guarding your flanks. This can negate all the benefits of the undead and make the casualties really soar. Black Knights work well at this job. With S6 killing blow, you can get rid of other small units of heavy cavalry (use magic movement to get that charge), and your ethereal mounts should help you move through cover easily. I cant tell you what a good unit size for this unit is, but they you dont need a line breaker, just someone who can watch your flank.

Now, the other big threat. Super killy units. Chosen khornate knights come to mind. There are a few good ways to get rid of them. The first is to use your own uber killy units. Lords on dragons are combat monsters when give hatred, a lance and red fury. Still, this is a pretty pricy combo, and you cant use it until 2000 points. The best way to get rid of threating units is to use our good friends, the zombies. Raise a unit in front of the enemy units, but do so at an angle. when they charge in, kill the small unit, they will pursue at the same angle. You can then nail them in the flank. They will become alot less scary, beleive me.

I hope this advice helped, and best of luck against your living adversaries!

Grontik
02-06-2008, 14:17
As long as you guys are 'esplainin things, somebody want to tell me why everyone thinks Vamps are cheesy or overpowered? I bought about 2500 points that I am still puttting them together and I keep seeing references to how they are broken or something. I haven't played them yet and I like to play for fun so I would like to make sure I don't build a list that is seen as power gamer. I don't think I'll have that problem as I like to include as much variety in my armies as possible and won't be going all ghoul like I hear alot of people doing. Thanks for any feedback ...

Cartoon
02-06-2008, 15:55
I think it's more of a case of where people just needed to get used to playing them. When a new book comes out it takes a little while to develop strategies to deal with the army. Vampires are certainly competitive, but the whole backlash about them being broken will die down as people learn how to play against them. That's my opinion, anyway.

Tarliyn
03-06-2008, 02:11
the book as been out long enough where people should be used it so I don't think that is the issue

While I don't think the army is completely ridiculous when placed in a tournament setting (where you see lots of cheese list) imo the army book has almost no place in friendly games unless the vc player puts many many restrictions on himself

there is a vc player in our group and she has to put restrictions on herself or we might as well not play cause the game gets frustrating for whoever plays against her... and we have a decent sized group

don't know, I just think the book lends itself to cheese without the army builder even trying

slave_to_darkness
03-06-2008, 08:19
with VC i've always thorght there are two main ways to go...

Shock Assult
The first tactic is the hard hitting shock assult tactic. It involves taking units of black nights, bl0od nights, rock hard mounted charicters with the red fury power and possibly varghulfs as well as an ample helping of necromancers equiped with vanhels dance macabre and a few power stones. The tactics for such a force are simplicity its self. Turn one = move into position using dire wolves to screen your valuable units
Turn Two = Charge! Use ure power stones to repetedly cast vanhels to get as many of your hard hitting units into combat as possible. Whilst doing this attempt to get your dire woles round the side and rear of the opposing armies lines.
Turn Three = win....hopefully

The Horde
The other main tactic is less competative imo but a lot less cheesy. Simply go for loads of blocks of zobies and other cheap infantry and attempt to wear the opposing army down using attrition.

of these two tacitcs i preffer the later 'cos the first tends not to win you any friends...

silverstu
03-06-2008, 09:05
) imo the army book has almost no place in friendly games unless the vc player puts many many restrictions on himself

there is a vc player in our group and she has to put restrictions on herself or we might as well not play cause the game gets frustrating for whoever plays against her... and we have a decent sized group

don't know, I just think the book lends itself to cheese without the army builder even trying

In what way? It would be helpful to know what is cheesy/frustrating about the list. Is it the magic phase or troop types? I'm considering VC - i have the book and graveguard[brilliant kit] but like the poster I don't want an over powered list which is no fun to play against.

Tarliyn
03-06-2008, 17:52
In what way? It would be helpful to know what is cheesy/frustrating about the list. Is it the magic phase or troop types? I'm considering VC - i have the book and graveguard[brilliant kit] but like the poster I don't want an over powered list which is no fun to play against.

OK i will make my list of the things that annoy me the most and if someone can counter them without just saying kill the general then I will concede my point. Killing the general isn't as easy as vc players make it seem and with all the saves and ways to get around a dead general the crumbling effect isn't even THAT devasting anymore. Yes it still hurts but really not that much more then when a normal general dies.

So lets start with the magic-
1- OK every army in the game has to choose between combaty characters or magic characters. Vampire Counts don't. There basic stat line makes them solid in combat while also giving them the abilities of a wizard. Heck just the ability for all the vamps to take arcane items is huge. No thought needs to be considered for magic defense if you are taking a fighty force cause all your vamps give you magic defense. And if you are fielding a magic army than your vamp is still respectable in combat if he somehow gets goaded into fighting (which a half decent general can easily avoid). And before a vamp player comes on here and says you have to pick between magic and fighting no you don't you have to pick between awesome magic and ok fighting, awesome fighting and ok magic, or pretty good fighting and pretty good magic. I know someone will point out cost too. A fully kited out vampire lord on foot cost around 450 points (base cost is around 250 then 100 points of vamp power + 100 points of items) Yes when compared with a Empire character or a orc and goblin yes that is very expensive. When compared with other things that are near his level not that bad. Slanns run more than that. Ogre kingdom tyrants, hordes of chaos magic lords, high elf archmages, highelf dragon princes, and the list goes on all only run about 100 points less. The value of the vampire counts characters are not made up for with the cost.

Now to the casting its self. The spam ability is rediculous. Lets use a magic light army for reference first. So we sit there and you cast ion 5 times. It cast 3 or 4 times. I dispel 1 or 2 so 2d6 of skeletons, zombies, or ghouls are raised. Just neutralized any shooting an enemy army might have had. Or made it where that rank bonus that you finally got rid of is back in bulk. Yep that sure is fun for your opponent. Have you ever been working on a task where you can see no progress from it, that is what fighting the vc is like. Oh not to mention you still have between 3-5 powerdice and your opponent is most likely out of dispel dice. So you can raise more guys in other units, danse something, or cast one of this bigger spells you have just for fun. Your opponent could save dispel dice for other spells too but then you would have raised 5d6 skeletons, zombies, or ghouls; also not a good alterative

OK now on to other things, ethereal is ridiculous on mounts and guys. OK so these guys I can't hurt with my infantry get 3 str 5 attacks, mounts ingore all terrain thats great for you, makes it pretty hard for me to guard my flanks atleast you still need los to charge out of forests. The banshee and spirit hosts aren't that bad though I will say.

If you ignore the vampires then the special and rare choices aren't that bad. Same with the core choices. But vampires can't be ignored, with vampires thrown into the mix then the strong things like graveguard become awesome at winning combats and the things like zombies and skeletons become decent at winning combats. And if your vampire is geared for magic and not combat than through magic you can make the combat last forever; normally more than enough time for the few wounds that the the skeletons and zombies do get through a turn to earn some vps. This doesn't even take into consideration the ease with which you can get flank charges due to raise undead horde and danse.

Basically if you don't take 4 characters in 2k and make your guys balanced at bother combat and casting (rather then min maxing) you may have some fun games with your friends. But if you don't want to put any restrictions on yourself then your friends will get frustrated. You will win a lot but will probably gradually loose people to play.

I am lucky that our vc player likes to make balanced things rather than maxing out certain things in the list.

Notice I have not said vc are unbeatable. They are not unbeatable but I don't think they are the most fun army to play against. I also feel like they don't require the most forethought to play with.

I am open to discussion too. I don't mind having friendly disagreements with people. So if someone reads something they disagree with please say something and I will try my best to explain my thoughts further : )

Vandur Last
03-06-2008, 19:11
Nice post. I think youve almost convinced me to start a VC army myself.
If i wanted to go the way of Skellie/Zombie hordes id want to be fairly magic heavy as well right? So Necrarchs + lots of Skellies, are they considred one of the "cheesy" builds?

Also, how essential are Dire Wolves and Bats, would i be severely handicapping myself by not having any? Im not crazy on the idea of these, the Undead-yness of the army would be alot cooler without em IMO.

silverstu
03-06-2008, 19:13
cheers for that- that's pretty much what put me off- very powerful characters and relentless magic- I agree it sounds like a pain to play against. I guess though through conscious choices you could field a fun list? I don't like fielding uber characters anyway- gives me something to think about. The other consideration is wether I can enjoy painting them- but that's a different proposition!!

Andrew Luke
03-06-2008, 19:29
Vamps are not cheesy, just different. People jsut can't get over the fact that they don't break and are ITP and stop thinking about tactics and instead bitch about 'cheese' or 'broken.' VCs change some of the fundamentals of the game, the same way High Elves change the game with ASF. This doesn't mean they are broken, it just means you gotta change your plans a little.

For VC, their troops all suck! Zombies can kill literally nothing, so I won't even go there. Skellies cost 8 points. 8 points for WS 2! What a joke! Night goblins can kick their ass for crying out loud and you ppl cry cheese...

To beat my VC army all you need to do is the following:
1. prevent me from easily casting IoN on one dice. All this requires is pretty much anything with -1 to cast, or 5+ DD. You don't have to stop them all, just a few, it will make all the difference, because your infantry beats mine point for point, so any combats I can't get enough IoNs on I will lose.
2. Don't forget Vanhels! If your knights get charged cuz you forgot to save a scroll for vanhels, well you deserve to lose, end of story.
3. Remember, I can't flee. This means you can own the movement phase, because I can't flee your charges.

Condottiere
03-06-2008, 19:34
1. prevent me from easily casting IoN on one dice. All this requires is pretty much anything with -1 to cast, or 5+ DD. You don't have to stop them all, just a few, it will make all the difference, because your infantry beats mine point for point, so any combats I can't get enough IoNs on I will lose.


Drain magic comes to mind.:)

dinobot
03-06-2008, 21:30
blah blah blah

That's actually very well said. I'm a VC player myself and even I think they're overpowered. 8 point skeletons and zombies are fine, but raisable ghouls and graveguard aren't.

Personally I don't think the vampires themselves are overpowered or under priced though. While they can summon lots of troops, they're also very vulnerable to character assassination (the hero ones anyways) and certain things like the banner of sundering can really hurt them. And raising lots of weak skeletons is fine, but as I said before, raising graveguard d6 at a time is very over the top. They should've made it so graveguard are summoned d3 at a time or something. So graveguard and ghouls pretty much ruined the whole army:)

Also, you said something about VC getting a cheap magical defense. While we can get lots of dispel dice, we can't really do better then that. Sure there are corpse carts that give -1 to casting, but those are 100 points a piece and the daemons can do the same thing with a 50-75 point banner.

Malorian
03-06-2008, 21:50
VC play like the pictures show: A horde of undead being held together by a powerful vampire. The infantry are easily beaten but they keep coming back, so you're only hope is to kill the vampire or concentrate on an area.

That's the reason I see people getting frustrated with them: they will never break. People are used to their uber unit charging in and smashing everything in it's path. Now it hits a unit of skeletons and if you don't kill them all (through staight damage and from crumbling) than you are locked for the long fight. Then while you are trapped in combat the VC player can bring in his hammer units to finish you off or just keep raising troops and trap you in combat forever.

I could get into the 'are vc overpowered?' thing, but that's been talked to death already and I think most of us are bored of it.

Tarliyn
03-06-2008, 23:02
cheers for that- that's pretty much what put me off- very powerful characters and relentless magic- I agree it sounds like a pain to play against. I guess though through conscious choices you could field a fun list? I don't like fielding uber characters anyway- gives me something to think about.

With some self imposed restrictions you can certainly have some very fun games with your friends. I know I enjoy playing a game with my friend who plays vc. For more info on how she builds her list feel free to pm me.


If i wanted to go the way of Skellie/Zombie hordes id want to be fairly magic heavy as well right? So Necrarchs + lots of Skellies, are they considred one of the "cheesy" builds?

if built right, no. That list can be used and both sides can have a fun time. Just make sure not to stack to much magic imo. Also you don't need dire wolves or bats but they are kinda cool and add something different to the list that isn't unbalanced.


I could get into the 'are vc overpowered?' thing, but that's been talked to death already and I think most of us are bored of it.

not really trying to get into that discussion either. I don't think they are overpowered for tourny play but for friendly games they need a bit of tweaking


For VC, their troops all suck! Zombies can kill literally nothing, so I won't even go there. Skellies cost 8 points. 8 points for WS 2! What a joke! Night goblins can kick their ass for crying out loud and you ppl cry cheese...

To beat my VC army all you need to do is the following:
1. prevent me from easily casting IoN on one dice. All this requires is pretty much anything with -1 to cast, or 5+ DD. You don't have to stop them all, just a few, it will make all the difference, because your infantry beats mine point for point, so any combats I can't get enough IoNs on I will lose.
2. Don't forget Vanhels! If your knights get charged cuz you forgot to save a scroll for vanhels, well you deserve to lose, end of story.
3. Remember, I can't flee. This means you can own the movement phase, because I can't flee your charges.

Your skeletons don't need to do wounds to win combat they just need to deny wounds since the cause fear. Even if you only win by 1 the enemy unit still runs away. So ws2 doesn't really matter and a comparison to basically any other unit in the game is void.

Also even a magic light army will have double the power dice your opponent has dispel dice and will still get atleast 2 ions off on one dice and then 2 danse. Just have to plan them right. Dispel scrolls are not very good against a vc army since they cost so much and the same spell can just get spammed again in the magic phase.

They can march and move due to magic. Also you underestimate a charge big deal! You can still get your unit into combat. And then when they are in combat they never break so you have plenty of time to get that flank charge. A good vc general should have a hard time looseing in all honesty.

Big deal if you can't flee. You can hold the enemy for the flank charge cause even if the unit takes 10 wounds it isn't breaking.

Just my two cents.

Again the army isn't overpowered for tourneys just needs some tweaking and maybe some friendly playing for casual games among friends. By all means play the army it can have some good games. Just remember the goal of a night of warhammer is not to massacre your friends but have some fun with them

good discussion guys keep it up : D

KrisPicman
03-06-2008, 23:03
What do you guys think?
40 Skeletons w/ CMND
40 Zombies w/CMND
20 Ghouls w/ Ghast
2 Corpse Carts w/1 balefire & 1 unholy lodestone
20 grave guard w/MND
20 dire wolves w/Doom wolf
1 vampire w/ blood drinker

all of that for 1500. does that sound like a solid list?

Zoolander
03-06-2008, 23:48
VC are not overpowered. There's just a few combination of things that makes them difficult. The answer, though Tarilyn won't admit it, is to kill the Count. This is rather easy if he's a caster vamp. A caster vamp has very little defense. If your lord can't kill a T5 3W caster, then you seriously need to build better characters! Now if he is a fighty vamp, he will be more difficult, as it should be. To prove how easy it is to kill a vamp, I will show you my last game. Scouting thrall charges a unit of archers in the flank. Due to ASF, the archers strike first and actually wound him. He kills 2, and with a musician, they win combat by one and he crumbles to dust. Should I have taken the chance? Nah, but it was fun. Would this have happened if he were a chaos hero or a wood elf noble? No, probably not.

Tarliyn
04-06-2008, 00:04
VC are not overpowered. There's just a few combination of things that makes them difficult. The answer, though Tarilyn won't admit it, is to kill the Count. This is rather easy if he's a caster vamp. A caster vamp has very little defense. If your lord can't kill a T5 3W caster, then you seriously need to build better characters! Now if he is a fighty vamp, he will be more difficult, as it should be. To prove how easy it is to kill a vamp, I will show you my last game. Scouting thrall charges a unit of archers in the flank. Due to ASF, the archers strike first and actually wound him. He kills 2, and with a musician, they win combat by one and he crumbles to dust. Should I have taken the chance? Nah, but it was fun. Would this have happened if he were a chaos hero or a wood elf noble? No, probably not.

That is a bad example to go off of as you charged a lone guy into a unit (or did he have other scouts with him, I didn't think the list had scouts)

A caster vampire can be kept out of los and combat easily. I do it all the time with my empire wizards and my skinks. The only thing they need los for are magic missiles and for the most part vamps will not be casting magic missles. And a combaty vampire is tough to kill as they have high weapon skill, armour, and sometimes a ward (can they have regeneration? I think they can). And a fighty vamp can even make units of zombies win combat.

As far as shooting a vamp out of a unit. Everything besides the hoch longrifle allows look out sir rules and if you fail that, it isn't strategy beating the vc player but luck.

Sorry if I struck a nerve with you Zoolander, I think they are a fine tourney army and with tweaking are an excellent causal army. For casual games the army builder just needs to show some polite restraint.



What do you guys think?
40 Skeletons w/ CMND
40 Zombies w/CMND
20 Ghouls w/ Ghast
2 Corpse Carts w/1 balefire & 1 unholy lodestone
20 grave guard w/MND
20 dire wolves w/Doom wolf
1 vampire w/ blood drinker

all of that for 1500. does that sound like a solid list?


kinda a small force, maybe cut the units into two units and then raise them up to a larger size
try to take a second vampire too so marching is easier

Then play test it and adjust it after a few games. People with more experience with the list may be better equipped to help you out. Put there is some of my input

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 05:11
kinda a small force, maybe cut the units into two units and then raise them up to a larger size
try to take a second vampire too so marching is easier

Then play test it and adjust it after a few games. People with more experience with the list may be better equipped to help you out. Put there is some of my input

Small? Thats roughly $310 worth of models. What would a good sized VC force contain? For example which units and how many per regiment and which characters and how many of each? Im just looking for an estimate. I don't need someone to build my list for me I just need a good push in the right direction.

Tarliyn
05-06-2008, 05:56
Small? Thats roughly $310 worth of models. What would a good sized VC force contain? For example which units and how many per regiment and which characters and how many of each? Im just looking for an estimate. I don't need someone to build my list for me I just need a good push in the right direction.

Yeah you wouldn't need to buy any more models just cut the two units of 40 in half. A unit size of 40 is huge no matter which army you play. That is the biggest thing I see. 2 units of 20 skeletons is much much better than one unit of 40 especially when you can raise more skeletons every turn. The same is true of zombies. My comment about a second vampire has to do with the fact that you have built a more combat oriented list so you are going to want to be able to march your whole line so your army moves at the same pace.

Other than that I thought it looked like a great list. Very easy to expand to 2k too once that time comes. Basically just grab another heavy hitter unit and you have a 2k list.

Hope this helps, not meaning to write the list for ya...just give some tips

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 06:18
This is the way my army would look sorry for posting it confusingly before.
40 Skeletons w/ CMND
( 2 units of 20 each with full command added in )
40 Zombies w/CMND
( 2 units of 20 each with full command added in )
20 Ghouls w/ Ghast
( 2 units of 10 with a ghast for each added in )
2 Corpse Carts w/1 balefire & 1 unholy lodestone
( self-explanitory )
20 grave guard w/CMND
( 1 unit of 20 with full command added in )
20 dire wolves w/Doom wolf
( 2 units of 10 with a doom wolf for each added in )
1 vampire w/ blood drinker
( He would stay back and summon/support the rest of my army )

My whole over veiw is to set up like this


I would have my Wolves rushing foward to harass my enemy's line and/or warmachines,wizards,screening my weaker units such as zombies and skeletons,etc. While marching everything up as one whole unifed force. Once I get into charge range with as many units as possible I go for ot and charge/get charged. So as I hopefully have the grave guard skeletons and zombies in combat I use my ghouls to flank,charge a different unit, protect my bigger units flanks.

Tarliyn
05-06-2008, 06:23
ahh ok lol, yeah looks good try it out in a game. I personally would still be a little concerned about the marching thing but if you play a game and it works then more power to ya!

Are you going to put your vampire in a unit? I assume yes. Which one?

edit: oops just saw your note about your vamp lol.....Make sure to keep him out of los of things like cannons, bolt throwers, long rifles, etc. If your opponent is using one of these you may want to stick him in a unit so he gets a look out sir roll

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 06:37
Yeah you wouldn't need to buy any more models just cut the two units of 40 in half. A unit size of 40 is huge no matter which army you play. That is the biggest thing I see. 2 units of 20 skeletons is much much better than one unit of 40 especially when you can raise more skeletons every turn. The same is true of zombies. My comment about a second vampire has to do with the fact that you have built a more combat oriented list so you are going to want to be able to march your whole line so your army moves at the same pace.

Other than that I thought it looked like a great list. Very easy to expand to 2k too once that time comes. Basically just grab another heavy hitter unit and you have a 2k list.

Hope this helps, not meaning to write the list for ya...just give some tips

Ok I was just a bit confused. Im just trying to figure something out before I go and buy everything so that I know what I want to go with before anything else.
Im leaning towards some black knights once I have already bought/painted all of this. and along with that purchase. As for right now what I have listed before is what I intend to buy but I do feel the need to add in some some more characters but that would tip the scale towards the 2000pt mark and Im not too sure I can really make an investment that big as of right now. I seem to think to myself maybe converting some of my left over Bretonian knights and peasants into black/blood knights and zombies. Back to what I was saying though, characters, what should I add?
Necromancers? More Vampires?
Btw Im open to any tips. So feel free to enlighten me on whatever you wish to impart to me.
On a different note how are Vampire Counts ranking in painting? Some of what I have seen looks difficult. What is your opinion? What paints should I stock up on? What would be a good primer for Zombies & Skeletons? Vampires/Other Characters? I would like to give my army a winter theme and make them look as gory and dirty as possible what would be a good approach for that theme?

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 06:42
ahh ok lol, yeah looks good try it out in a game. I personally would still be a little concerned about the marching thing but if you play a game and it works then more power to ya!

Are you going to put your vampire in a unit? I assume yes. Which one?

edit: oops just saw your note about your vamp lol.....Make sure to keep him out of los of things like cannons, bolt throwers, long rifles, etc. If your opponent is using one of these you may want to stick him in a unit so he gets a look out sir roll

Im on the fence when it comes to putting my Vampire in a unit. I was thinking throwing him in the Grave guard to round that unit out pretty solidly but wouldnt that prevent him from raising new units if he were to locked in combat?
Although having him run around by his lonesome will expose him to the threats you have already mentioned.
I am truly on the fence when it comes to this. I believe I should try both approaches and see how he fairs.

Tarliyn
05-06-2008, 06:51
Let me dig out my old 6th ed vamps book. It had some good tips on painting skeletons and zombies in it if I recall correctly. As for the second character thing I would diff go with a second vamp due to the march thing. A necro is nice since it allows you to guarantee atleast one character has danse but I personally still think the second vamp would be more valuable. Remeber your characters can't march unless within 6" of one of those buggers. My friend screwed herself over one game but putting one of her units to far away from her vamp. Created a hole in her line I was able to exploit using fast cav.

Yeah black knights are super expensive so converting them may not be a bad call atleast until you get some extra cash. They are really cool models though. Not sure what from vamps could be comverted into a Vampire guy though. That one is a bit more tricky.

Oh here is another thing that may be helpful. The Empire Battle Wizard box set has a bunch of different options in it and you can make two nice looking Necromancers out of it for only 17 bucks. They look much better then the current Necromancer models imo and are a joy to paint.

Tarliyn
05-06-2008, 07:00
Im on the fence when it comes to putting my Vampire in a unit. I was thinking throwing him in the Grave guard to round that unit out pretty solidly but wouldnt that prevent him from raising new units if he were to locked in combat?
Although having him run around by his lonesome will expose him to the threats you have already mentioned.
I am truly on the fence when it comes to this. I believe I should try both approaches and see how he fairs.

yeah if you are careful with characters you can keep them alive. But warmachines on hills make it very hard to protect them sometimes. Does your group play with terrain? How much? Do you guys often put hills in the deployment zone. My gaming group rolls a dice before every game. On a 4+ you can put hills in deployment zones on anything else you can't. Helps us develop different tatics and stuff.

Try both ways see which is more effective.

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 07:05
Ok cool i have the 6th edition book to so Il take a look through that. I might give the Wizard box a try. Paying 17 for 2 beats paying 12 or 10 for 1.
I sure do wish that they had cooler bat models though.
The current VC bats looks like some tacky piece of plastic someone took off of a halloween cupcake.

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 07:08
My group doesnt have terrain and you have to take an hour long bus to the nearest GW retailer. So that subject hasnt crossed my mind but, I am going to steal your idea once we aquire some terrain, very good idea. Kudos to whoever thought of that one.

Tarliyn
05-06-2008, 07:18
yeah that was my problem with the vc... some of the models look amazing and some are complete rubbish lol

if you need any general advice on painting just send me a pm...I am not the greatest painter ever but certainly not the worst either : )

we tried alot of different systems for terrain and finally came up with this one.

Do the hill roll before anything else (that 4+ one I already mentioned)
then we roll a artillery dice for hills, forests, and water features

we divide the artillery dice result by two and that is how many possible can be on the board.

So for instance we say hills roll the artillery dice, lets say a 6 shows up. We can deploy 3 hills during terrain deployment.

From there we follow the rules presented in the brb. Each player rolls highest player goes first. Picks 1 of the terrain features from the pool of possible ones (we had just formed the pool of possible ones using artillery dice) and we go till someone passes.

Wow the system is really alot simpler then my typeing it out conveys lol

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 07:35
Lol yeah I know thats a petition we should make and send to GW. I can just see it now.....

MAKE COOLER BATS OR WE START PLAYING VOID!

Now yes I am open to anything about painting Im used to painting dwarves. So my collection of paints mostly consisted of Metals, Oranges, Greys, Black, Blondish yellow mixes.

What I would really like to see would be some speedy tactics on painting Vampire Count armies (newest edition)
Maybe we should start a thread in the Hobby part of WS, any thoughts?

KrisPicman
05-06-2008, 07:36
Yes that does sound like a simple system.
It will be used many times over by my group once we have the terrain.

Tarliyn
05-06-2008, 07:58
Yes that does sound like a simple system.
It will be used many times over by my group once we have the terrain.

oh forgot to mention if a misfire is rolled when rolling to see how many then none of that particular type of terrain can be on the board. It makes it where you aren't always going to be guaranteed to be able to take every kinda of terrain piece every game

Heimlich
06-06-2008, 05:46
Only use the Dire Wolves in units of 5

valdrog
06-06-2008, 13:47
Compared to the other undead army in the game, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts are ridiculosly overpowered.
TKs dont get to raise nowhere near as many per unit.
TKs cant raise new units.
We dont get regen or ward saves against cumble,
We cant march..EVER,
We cannot put a magic banner in all our skel units
Yes incantations always go off, but their range is just 12 inches, and our magic defense is horrible.
NO ethereal units
Our magic item list is a joke.

Im hoping that when/if TKs get redone they bring them to par with the crazines that is VCs.

Shadowsinner
06-06-2008, 17:46
you know what a fun general is???

vampire lord- lvl 3
master of black arts
forbidden lore with lore of beasts
summon ghouls (for a themed list)
flayed hauberk
gem of blood
black periapt
helm of commandment...

if you get off bears anger in combat you have...

a t6 s7 lord with 7 attacks, a 2+ AS and the ability to inflict a rebounded wound on anyone, not to mention he has 5-6 PD and the ability to transfer ws7 to a nearby unit...