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kiron
31-05-2008, 18:44
well since sister may potentially be their own codex, what would you like to improve?

penitent engines reduction in points!
repentia huge reduction in points, maybe down to 15 and generate faith, there are STILL faithful (look at St. Celestine, the x-repentia!)
arco-flag...no idea

Do SOMETHING to celestians, atm they seem redundant.

sisters-one potential suggestion was they lose the power armor for carapace armor (4+AS) though they better get REALLY good compensation (perhaps all bolters/stormbolters loaded with blessed ammo :P)

Make rhinos the same costs as CSM or at least 50 points including smoke and armor since transports got nerfed with 5th ed (Kill pointswise)

make canoness 0-1 choice give 3 faith points instead and increase WS by 1?
Keep the book of st. lucius (at least make it HQ only, but then 12" range)
Make HQ with jump pack able to hit-and-run

Keep faith as is

Give retributers the ability to have blessed ammunition (they got nerfed too bad with torrent of fire rule and when compared to exorcist)

Exorcists stay as is (nice to be 2d6 AP at 24" range :D)

seraphim drop 2 points or increase I to 4 or ability to move after DS but can't assault?

Not much of a powercreep compared to other codexes

Templar Ben
31-05-2008, 19:00
Why don't we put this in the Inquisition wishlist thread?

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145973

Deus Mechanicus
31-05-2008, 19:47
Plastic Sisters
the only thing stopping me from getting a SOB army :(

Harold Zoid
31-05-2008, 21:25
1. rhinos with the same cost as in new csm codex
2. repentia with feel no pain and a rule like that nid power which allows to hit even if model is killed by attacks with higher initiative. same cost.
3. priest - either go down to 20pts with the same rules as now, or 40pts, but gives faith
4. penitent engines cheaper
5. arco-flagellants with feel no pain. And let them use that fnp against their suicide rule. Same cost.
6. basic sisters, retributors, dominions - stay the same. Multi-melta cheaper, 20 points
7. Celestians - 14 points, but get true grit
8. zealots in codex
9. all inquisitorial henchmen get 4+ save.

DullMentalRacket
01-06-2008, 01:11
id like to see repentias get two wounds tbh, i think thatd make them useful. And yeah, faith.

--We're going to probably see the end of the 2+ inv save on the cannoness, so now that she won't be a super tarpit for heavy hitters id like to see something different done with her.
--i'd really like to see a HQ option with 'hit and run'. The rules for keeping your cannoness in a unit of seraphim are just too clunky.
--heavy weapon option for sister squads, and give rets back their heavy flamers
--something will probably be done with the exorcist too, i hope its not something thatll make it useless
--cheaper p. engines
--streamlined rhino prices

Yamagon
01-06-2008, 02:04
Plastic Sisters
the only thing stopping me from getting a SOB army :(

I am with you all the way! That is my major concern, the lack of plastic models.

My other major concern is celestians, and their lack of speciality-ness. I say, increase their Balstic skill, and also their points a little to counter this.

Seraphim I think also need more options, coz twin linked bolt pistols with regular attacks is not really that intimidating. Their holy and angelic right, i say, give them more fire, i.e. in a form of a special weapon each that gives them rending or a special ability in assult (could look cool if they all had brazeirs on sticks). Either that, or make their bolt pistols more powerfull-special amunition or something.

Customisable saints?

TheDarkDuke
01-06-2008, 02:15
Wait there is currently a SoB Codex? Here I thought it was Witch Hunters. So as an above poster mentioned, this should be discussed in the other thread about the Inquisition.

Hicks
01-06-2008, 02:24
I always thought that Faith powers were pretty unbalanced. The fact that there is a tool for every situation kinda removes tactical thinking IMO. The one that grants invulnerable saves in particular is ridiculous considering how cheap sisters are point wise.

I think a better way to handle faith would be trough giving exclusive powers to each units. A bit like in Soulstorm, where different units have different powers. Those powers could be costed accordingly to the unit's strenght and point cost and prevent the more abusive combinations.

I'm sure WH players will want me burnt on a stake for saying this, but I never liked Faith as a game mechanic. I really don't see why SOBs of all things would be more favored by the Emperor, to the point of getting some totally wicked powers.

Chem-Dog
01-06-2008, 02:34
Heroine: Give her the option to Upgrade to Seraphim or Cellestian, it's entirely right that a Cannoness could come from one of these vaunted ranks.

Celestians: Give them the Sarissa as standard, it's totally wasted on a Character Model, given to a squad like the Celestians makes sense.

Ecclesiarchy stuff: Higher Ranking Ecclesiarchy Representative, perhaps bring back the Confessor as a character type.
Arco Flagellants need to have half decent models, after the introduction of Arco Flagellants in Inquisitor the 28MM minis were appauling.
Penitent Engines. these need to be plastic, there's a good reason they're not more popular.

New tank. The immolator shouldn't be a HS choice with armour made out of paper.

GrandReaper
01-06-2008, 06:12
I'm finding myself very confused about my poor sisters right now. I find that they are a little on the weak side against most of the armies I play against. This may be a result of many of the armies where I play being highly "shooty", but I rarely seem to get beyond a minor victory, no matter what I do.

As background, I am a fairly dominant player where I game, playing Chaos, Orks, Tyranid, Tau, Necron and Eldar, each of which I post around an 85% or higher win rate with. As a result, some games end up complete massacres (not my favourite type of game, but relevent here).

My sisters, on the other hand, win around 35% of the time, and all my wins are by the slightest of margins, with losses ranging from minimal to extreme. My favourite games were always against Orks (I wipe a unit of yours, you wipe a unit of mine with a charge, I flambe that unit, you charge and wipe mine, etc). Now, however, I just cannot kill enough of the little 6pt buggers to survive. I could drop my two exorcists and bring 3 units of retributors with heavy bolters, but if I face tanks them I'm buggered.

Now, truth be told, much of my grief is a direct result of the rules for entanglement, which should be going the way of the dodo. However, I still think there is a bit of a point imbalance that the new Ork codex has, if not caused, illuminated. So, the first review would be to drop basic sisters to 10 points (assuming, of course, that Guard are dropping to ~5 pts and Stormtroopers to ~8).

Celestians need....something, and my current idea is to give them all Stormbolters and Sarissa. Suddenly they become very mobile, versatile, and just a little more threatening in CC. I'm not sure on a point value, but something around 14-16 seems reasonable.

Seraphim are wonderful! I think they're perfect as is.

Repentia.....suck. I'm not sure how to fix it, so I'll move on.

Dominions are interesting, but they lack a real identity as well (seeing as no one but me plays with them). I think redefining them as a fast-reaction/flanking/scouting force could be interesting. Maybe combine the mandatory transport with Infiltrate so they can use the flank deployment option? Or scouts? That would give them something, although having an Immolator appear on your flank might be overpowered.

I love the unkillable Canoness, but I realize she is a little overpowered. That T3 does still keep my heart pownding when she's "tieing up" Hive tyrants and whatnot though, and she burns through faith like crazy.

Finally, I'm open to the idea of Faith as a unit upgrade (like a Chaos Mark kindof thing). Interesting. Very interesting.

Cheers,
GrandReaper

TheSilentProphet
01-06-2008, 07:00
This was just a thought I had, but anyone else think it would be cool to give the Immolator an inferno cannon when the next sisters update comes in 200 years?

I figure it would do justice to the fact that the sisters are almost entirely flame and melta based, and wouldn't be too unrealistic with the appropriate increase in points.

WorLord
01-06-2008, 07:11
Sounds good to me. I liked the 2nd edition version of the immolator rules better - 2 side-by-side heavy flamer templates could make a real impression on horde armies and swarms...:D

TheSilentProphet
01-06-2008, 07:53
Lets see here...

Fix repentia and penitent engines as mentioned above
plastic models please
an immolator with inferno cannon?
deepstriking capability with seraphim (not having to take assault marines to be able to ds)
longer ranged anti-tank (other than the exorcist) such as lascannons
keep faith as is

Kettu
01-06-2008, 08:45
As a question of Faith I have to ask what is wrong with it?

The acts of faith I've never considered to be over-powered and considering how much faith points I have to play with I've never seen it as necessary part of my strategy. I work out how to fight the enemy without faith and use it as a handy extra, something to compliment my girls and not supplement.

The only person I've seen who considers their faith overpowered is the local necron player and it isn't very hard to beat him, just ignore the monoliths and destroyers and concentrate on his warriors till phase out.

Repentia: Make cheaper, Feel no Pain, ride in transports (What, they walk from the cloister to the battlefield?) and Holy Rage all the time but whilst the Mistress is alive test against her LD to make them act normally.
I know she's there to drive them forwards but she's also there to lead them and govern their movements as so they match the battle-plan.

Arcos-Flags: What is with the Drugs killing them??? Fix that and they almost become useful.
Also, perhaps if they could start the mission in a rhino? (Again, they walk there?)

Penitents: Make them MC and not machines, it just seems to fit better and give them a potential to survive long enough to get into CC or at least Flamer range.

Sarissa: Squad option, not IC.

Brazier of fire: Make a power-weapon. Kinda over-costed for a use once flamer and ccw.

Book of St. L: Keep as is.

Celestians: Perhaps an option to replace their bolters with power-weapons and Shields? (Paradisum Protectiva?)

Seraphim: Me thinks their gonna be gimped by the new Hit'nRun rules. Lower cost, higher I or ignore the new I test all together to leave combat.

Dominions: I had an idea for an infiltration unit for sisters equipped akin to Seraphim (twin bolt-pistols) but with options to exchange for various other weapons, no jump pack but infiltrate and possibly a rhino and/or immolator.
A kind of secret police, if you will, deployed to rapidly breech and purge known groups of heretics and the like.
This could easily be mixed into the current role of Dominions and whilst an Immolator Tank with scout and/or infiltrate may seem ott, it really isn't. 11 front amour, rumoured cc with tanks hitting rear armour (10), etc...

Immolator: Having one in the HS spot had uses as a non-dedicated transport which I utilized many times but with 'dedicated' transports going out the window this isn't needed any more. Or, give it inferno cannon or twin twin-linked heavy bolter or some form of Mega-Multi-Melta and remove transportation (Heavy Flamer Sponsons?). We get a flexible MBT to support our forces along side the Exorcists Artillery role and the Retributions Fire support role


Exorcists: Leave as is or be able to sacrifice the d6 shots for a single large blast.

Retributions: I had an idea for a tactical Exorcist launcher: 36" range S8 AP1 Heavy 1. Only one per Retribution squad.
Give a nice bit of anti-tank and an occasional insta-kill.
Taking a full Exorcist is still better then min-maxing a squad of Retributions but for smaller battles or just for the extra punch on the side I can see it being very useful.

Make-a-Saint: Perhaps a Living Saint as a HQ choice as well? (Keeping Celestine special, of course)

Keep the Banner Bearer and bring back the model.

And the most important thing...

Plastic Sisters.

Looking at the Chaos SM squad we could easily have ten sisters, twenty heads (ten without and ten with helmets), Bolters, 1 flamer, 1 melta, 1 storm-bolter, 1 Heavy flamer, 1 Multi-melta and 1 Heavy Bolter, 1 Sister superior helmet, 1 bolt-pistol, 1 chainsword/eviserator, 1 Brazier of flame and assorted scrolls, purity seals and the such.
It covers four entries for the codex straight off the bat and with a majority of their options represented.

sly_dog
01-06-2008, 10:04
As posters above me said, Celestians with True Grit or Sarissas would be nice to see. But the one thing I would love to see on sisters is if they got Stubborn, which makes sense, and is pretty much what we do with them now anyway.

Sister_Sin
01-06-2008, 11:21
Keep Power Armor, it's part of who they've always been.
Plastic would be nice but ONLY if they are very high quality.
Change the Repentia to the original Citadel Journal versions, remove the B&D gang.
Some kind of scouting or infiltrating unit; I know of no military group that doesn't have at least some of this kind of troop...can't see why Sisters wouldn't use them.
Leave the ability to take a pure Sisters army intact; I'm not interested in being forced to use other Ecclesiarchy or Inquisition units. I have a pure Sisters army and I like it that way.

Just my take on things.

Sister Sin

Christine
01-06-2008, 11:26
Plastic Sisters all the way at the moment they are just too darn expensive...

The Highlander
01-06-2008, 11:38
I don't see what everone's problem is with celestians. You pay 2 points a model for +1 WS, +1I, alway faithfull, better weapon options, better transport options and always hit on a 3+. They are the best value elites in the game (compaired to the basic unit).

BTW, my SOB army has lost only 1 battle (out of about 15), and that was in a doubles game with a frend's SM.

Kettu
01-06-2008, 16:34
I don't see what everone's problem is with celestians. You pay 2 points a model for +1 WS, +1I, alway faithfull, better weapon options, better transport options and always hit on a 3+. They are the best value elites in the game (compaired to the basic unit).

BTW, my SOB army has lost only 1 battle (out of about 15), and that was in a doubles game with a frend's SM.

Good WS and I =\= good cc unit.

For the points you pay they are slightly better then the standard sisters unit but lack of dedicated cc options doesn't really make them better.

Being able to take a heavy weapon makes them slightly more flexible but they are really only worth it as body guards of the Sisters Commander and not a squad on their own.

Give them power weapons or sarissa or bolt-pistols and ccws or something.
I think they weren’t given any real cc options so they wouldn't conflict with the Repentia and Arcos, Both are dedicated cc units and both are utter tripe with several inbred weaknesses as so the dangerous and capable sounding Chainfists or d6 power weapons didn't make the enemy run in fear, cause really, make the Sisters of Battle decent? Their only girls after all.

I used Repentia quite a bit when I first started (I was dumb enough to think their anti-tank combat talent made them a good choice) but the only time they were even remotely useful was when my opponent was stupid enough to think they couldn't bust his termi filled raider and so left it unguarded.

As for the Arcos? Squad size six maximum, no transport, no ranged attack, combat drugs almost certain to claim at least one of the guys and a very, very large sign that says SHOOT ME! I DON'T LIKE LIVING.

For an army that almost exclusively operates in 12" range, they certainly suck at combat and the only solutions are broken or can only operate as a counter-attack unit.