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Aristone
22-10-2005, 10:10
I have a question that has been bugging me for a while, but my rulebook was recently stolen, so I can't look the actual wording of the rule. I believe is says something along the lines of (If a fear causing unit is in combat, and the enemy is outnumbered, they dont need to make a break test, but automaticall count as failing) [not what it says, just how I understand it to be]. So, if you were to have a character with an item (or mark or something) that made it cause fear, join a unit that doesn't cause fear, win combat and outnumber the enemy unit. [say, a skink chief with that dagger of "fear to skaven", in a unit of a bunch of skins, beats skaven in combat and outnumbers, does the skaven auto-flee?]

Snoozer
22-10-2005, 10:14
I would say yes, they would auto-flee, because they fear the character and they have to flee from him, but I'm no expert of the fear rules so I'm not 100% sure.

:D

Atrahasis
22-10-2005, 10:36
long run-on sentence of doom

To autobreak from combat due to fear, a losing unit must be outnumbered by models that they fear. If the only fear-causing model is a character, then that will rarely be sufficient to autobreak any unit, as a character's US is at most 7 (if mounted on a dragon).

T10
22-10-2005, 10:44
The unit (if subject to Fear) will automatically break if defeated in combat and outnumbered by Fear-causing enemies.

Outnumbering is based on the unit strength, and in this instance only those models that cause Fear are counted.

There are banners that make the unit that carry it cause Fear. An item given to a character that has the same effect would be rather powerful.


GW has also ruled that this is worked out differently from the +1 to combat resolution for outnumbering. Instead, each unit that was defeated in the combat counts compares its own unit strength against those units it is in direct contact with.

Thus if two units with a Unit Strength of 10 each is defeated by a single Fear-causing unit with a Unit Strength of 12, then both defeated units automatically fail their break tests.

-T10

T10
22-10-2005, 10:48
Side note:

An Empire Captain takes the Helm of the Skaven Slayer (cause fear in Skaven models) and rides a Pegasus. The model has a Unit Strength of 4 (pegasus 3, +1 for the character), but when working out Fear does it count as US 1 or US 4?

-T10

Festus
22-10-2005, 11:04
Hi

It is US4: As the model as a whole causes fear, the model is counted, not its constituents.

Same with character on mount: It is US of mount +1, even if the rider doesn't cause fear itself.

Greetings
Festus

T10
22-10-2005, 16:51
Good point!

Which means that under the right circumstances it can be a real asset, such as when trying to take down smaller units of skirmishers and the like. Throw in some Ogres and you actually have something going on!

-T10

Izram
22-10-2005, 17:05
as a character's US is at most 7 (if mounted on a dragon).

GUO :P

Side question: Does having a character that causes fear in a non-fear causing unit make that unit immune to autobreaking from fear themselves? I would assume that a mixed unit with fear and not fear would not be able to autobreak, otherwise a character without fear joining a fear causing unit would make that unit liable for auto breaks?

Atrahasis
22-10-2005, 17:56
GUO :PBah...


Side question: Does having a character that causes fear in a non-fear causing unit make that unit immune to autobreaking from fear themselves? I would assume that a mixed unit with fear and not fear would not be able to autobreak, otherwise a character without fear joining a fear causing unit would make that unit liable for auto breaks?

A character who joins a unit is subject to that unit's psychology. If he is immune to fear, he will not confer that immunity to the unit. However, if the unit is immune and the character not, then the character can benefit from the immunity of the unit.

T10
22-10-2005, 21:29
GUO :P
PLIWT. 7: Nuff sedd.


Side question: Does having a character that causes fear in a non-fear causing unit make that unit immune to autobreaking from fear themselves? I would assume that a mixed unit with fear and not fear would not be able to autobreak, otherwise a character without fear joining a fear causing unit would make that unit liable for auto breaks?

There is some controversy on this point. However, the ruling appears to be* that whereas "models" are referred to in the rules, the intent was that this applies where naturally Fear-causing models are accompanied by non-Fear-causing models as a part of the standard unit structure.

E.g. a unit of Rat Ogres (cause Fear) and their Skaven handlers (subject to Fear) is not subject to Fear.

The ruling precludes the option of joining a Fear-causing character into a starndard unit to achieve the effects.

E.g. a Champion of Nurgle in a unit of Marauders would not render the unit immune to Fear.

-T10

*) I am sure someone can quote the appropriate "scripture" on this...

samw
23-10-2005, 03:40
I was under the impression that monsters, but not characters caused a unit to become immune. E.g. a Dark Elf Lord with a terror causing mask joining a spearman unit does not make them immune, a Lord on a Dragon joining the same unit would.
Makes sense to me. Your leader having some scary trinket would not make you feel any braver when faced with a unit of ogres, trolls etc, but having a dragon on your side would!

MarcoPollo
26-10-2005, 00:19
I remember there being a line in one of the rule sections either in Chronicles or BRB that said that the unit is emoblended by the presence of a fear causing character and is no longer subject to fear or something like that.

I like to interpret it that way. I wonder how tournaments make this ruling.

Wickerman71
26-10-2005, 04:24
E.g. a unit of Rat Ogres (cause Fear) and their Skaven handlers (subject to Fear) is not subject to Fear.

Not quite, the Rat Ogre & Handlers is a single Unit entry "Mixxed Unit". The Rules apply to all models in the unit hence the unit causes Fear & is immune to it aswell. A character joining a unit still causes Fear himself but passes none of those benifits over to the unit that does not cause Fear. Riding a Fear or Terror causing beasty is not going to help the Hero when that unit Auto Breaks.