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cowzrnomatoh
01-06-2008, 14:24
Well we went to our nearest game store and found the new rule book waiting to be looked at. My friends friend was working there and they played a 2000 point game while.

Some notes as I watched...

-combat lasts like at most 2 turns, mostly only one turn
-the shooting thing everyone is worried about isnt hard to grasp. Alot of things do get cover saves now for not being able to see the whole model. same with vehicles.
-Run isnt a hugh change in everything. The orks player only ran maybe twice. if you run your at risk of being rapid fired to death and so you have to pick your battles.
-blast weapons scattering isnt so bad. Its actually really freaking awesome.
-your whole squad can be shot at if they can see one of your guys.
they use the 'we know your there, we'll just shoot you through that wall' Honestly though. A bolter will shoot through even a concrete wall. Its not all that bad
-Over all the game was shorter.
-deploment was a big change, adds some cool things, the new objectives are cool
-scout and infiltrate are amazing. they now get outflank.
(table edge)

over all just really fun.

DullMentalRacket
01-06-2008, 16:26
really looking forward to july.

Joewrightgm
01-06-2008, 16:28
Combat only lasting 2 turns at most? Oh thank you GW . . . Finally, combat the way it should be: Brutal, short, bloody, decisive. Daddy likes.

Lomax
01-06-2008, 16:33
I have played a game too, only thing I didn't like was Kill points as I was using guard and had 15 units, he was using SW and only had 7, so my 83 point guard squads are worth the same as a 200 points grey hunter squad.

TheRockit
01-06-2008, 16:51
I play Tyranids and am looking forward to the changes coming... some will be really challenging to adapt to at first, some will be advantageous at first but one of my favorite parts of the game is learning and not always having battles which are static.

Sounds like 5th ed. will put some brains back into the equation over just math & dice. Let's hope!

cowzrnomatoh
01-06-2008, 17:37
Ha yeah, The game was Orks Vs. Chaos Iron warriors themed. It was hold the objective.
at turn 5, you roll to see if theres a turn 6 then you can roll again for a turn 7 but after turn 7 (if there is one) the game ends automatically

and its cool because orks really got a cover save against most of the stuff duo to the chaos shooting through his own squads, and partially being able to orks. area cover you can shoot through to other squads but they get a 4+ cover.
everything that was a 5+ cover save is now a 4+.

Only troops can claim objectives. trying to get rid of Min-maxing.
Im just waiting to see a Space marine player take nothing but scouts and CCW and have them outflank and come in from the side table edges.

bassmasterliam
01-06-2008, 17:48
These new rules will probebly inspire me to play more often(my LGS is in harlow and i live in chingford), another of the reasons i don't play is because i gety confused because of my dyslexia and my opponent gets annoyed :cries:. but these new rules are welcomed by me!

big squig
01-06-2008, 20:47
I have played a game too, only thing I didn't like was Kill points as I was using guard and had 15 units, he was using SW and only had 7, so my 83 point guard squads are worth the same as a 200 points grey hunter squad.
Ditto. I can't stand kill points. They don't work at all. I have half the mind to just use the 4th ed annihilation rules instead.

Lardidar
01-06-2008, 21:45
Ditto. I can't stand kill points. They don't work at all. I have half the mind to just use the 4th ed annihilation rules instead.

Use what ever you want dude, it is your game.

The only time you will have to use KP is in a tournament but for most people thats only a few games a year if any.

On 5th in general I am loving it .... my passion for 40k died over the course of 4th.

I have played a few games since 5th has been in stores and I am absolutaly having a blast again, it is like having a new hobby.

Now all I need is an army to play with ... hmm decisions.

Bloodknight
01-06-2008, 21:53
I guess most tournaments won't really bother with the killpoint system because it is so unbalanced, but use the good old victory points. Actually, the KP system reminds me a bit of the 2nd ed. VP system with 1VP per 100 points of a unit, which for example meant that most Tyranid players played their carnifexes in a 199 or 299 point version to not surrender another VP.

Deathraven
01-06-2008, 22:00
How did true los work out for you? Was there nowhere to hide you elite/squishy stuff?

Imladrith
01-06-2008, 22:17
Hmm.. I remember reading in the 'leaked' rulebook that you use true line of sight.. so if you can see something, you can shoot it.. if you can't see it, you can't. That doesn't really match with the 'I know you're there'-thing posted above... There is a part stating that whole squads can be hit when there is one model within range, since the bullets will not stop as soon as they reach the maximum range. This doesn't mean though that bullets can suddenly fly through walls or around corners! I think the friends' friend was mixing this up..

Also, having points for killing scoring units may seem unfair if you have twice as many.. but it also means that in the two other battles you have much more units to score points with! This means that the units that are most desirable in 2/3 of the battles are a disadvantage in the other third! I think this is a good way to discourage players using ridiculous builds to win more battles..

Imladrith.

cowzrnomatoh
01-06-2008, 23:24
Well it wasnt the theory of bullets going around corners.
it was the theory of bullets going through objects to reach the enemy.
You were saying that even though the bullets dont stop at maxium range. Which is all true. But theres a difference of only having one model in RANGE. Im talking about models that are behind terrain(in range) that you can only see one guy of the squad.

But yeah. Your elite units...well....theres no ultimate way to protect them.
That unit is going to be shot at most of the time no matter what. but you can hide them behind cover, or behind your own units, or tanks or what not.
Transports can get the infiltrate if the unit inside has them so
Example of Striking Scorpions in a wave serpent and infiltrating.
The transport gets it too.

I guess youll have to destroy what you dont like before you bring the other units up... Idk.

And understand I was watching Orks flow over a hill to grab 3 objectives against iron warriors.
it ended in a draw.
the orks had a force field so they already got a cover save.

Melchor
01-06-2008, 23:46
I'm wondering... Everybody talks about Infiltrators being able to 'flank'. How about straightforward infiltrating like the do in 4th? Will they still be able to do so?

IronNerd
02-06-2008, 00:04
So I was the Iron Warriors player involved in this game, figured I'd chime in with my opinions.

-Run didn't make as much of a difference as I expected... strangely it rarely happened...
-The new combat is pure win... I really like it... and the fact that you can't consolidate into a fresh enemy keeps the scales balanced.
-The cover save thing was interesting to deal with... I could see 'nids being hard to deal with... What's that? Gaunts aren't worthless?
-New deployment means we re-learn a lot of the game. That change is huge, there's no way else to put it.

We didn't play with a lot of solid cover, so true LoS didn't come into play much. Word on the street is our LGS is going to be getting a bunch of new terrain to get ready for 5th Ed.

Overall, the game went very smoothly. I was hesitant about the new rules, but so far I like 'em.

cowzrnomatoh
02-06-2008, 00:36
I'm wondering... Everybody talks about Infiltrators being able to 'flank'. How about straightforward infiltrating like the do in 4th? Will they still be able to do so?

Yes you can still do it normally.

And As IronNerd said. He did all the battling.

Stezerok
02-06-2008, 00:48
Transports can get the infiltrate if the unit inside has them so
Example of Striking Scorpions in a wave serpent and infiltrating.
The transport gets it too.


are you sure of this? Is this confirmed or what? If so I'm really going to be liking my Scorpions...

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Mouldsta
02-06-2008, 01:35
Hmm.. I remember reading in the 'leaked' rulebook that you use true line of sight.. so if you can see something, you can shoot it.. if you can't see it, you can't. That doesn't really match with the 'I know you're there'-thing posted above... There is a part stating that whole squads can be hit when there is one model within range, since the bullets will not stop as soon as they reach the maximum range. This doesn't mean though that bullets can suddenly fly through walls or around corners! I think the friends' friend was mixing this up..


Well he isn't mixing it up, that's the true rules. Casulaties can be taken from anywhere in the squad.
The problem with 'leaked' rulebooks is that they're not the final version leaked, so they're only about 90% correct. The last 10% that change are they key subtle differences that change everything.

Ironically reading the leaked one makes learning the real one harder since you have to go check every single last sentance to see if it's altered slightly.

neophryte
02-06-2008, 01:48
Though really, since it is a new edition you should read every sentence anyway ;-)

I am loving me some 5th edition! I just came from a 1750 game with my Templars vs Imperial Guard. A real blast of a game!

A couple of interesting things came up that I can't wait to actually sit down with the rulebook and look up - for instance, if I am doing charging 2 units and one is in difficult cover and the other isn't does my I drop down to 1 for the guys that didn't have to go through cover. We played it did, but I am curious to see the final on it.

zeqe
02-06-2008, 01:54
Though really, since it is a new edition you should read every sentence anyway ;-)

I am loving me some 5th edition! I just came from a 1750 game with my Templars vs Imperial Guard. A real blast of a game!

A couple of interesting things came up that I can't wait to actually sit down with the rulebook and look up - for instance, if I am doing charging 2 units and one is in difficult cover and the other isn't does my I drop down to 1 for the guys that didn't have to go through cover. We played it did, but I am curious to see the final on it.

Movement is done as a unit, according to the section regarding charging if the unit moves through difficult terrain to charge the enemy then the entire unit is effected.

SwordJon
02-06-2008, 06:03
I was fortunate enough to be the Ork player that participated in the battle, and let me tell you: 5th edition is a *******' blast. I'm sure after a few games and getting used to the new cover rules/deployment, that games will go even faster than they used to. And this is all a good thing; units get absolutely WRECKED in close combat. And of course, the faster things die, the faster the game will go.

Overall, however, the game seems to give a lot more choices to the players. Things seem to have shifted to put the movement phase being just as important (if not more important) than the shooting and assault phases (and in my opinion the shooting phase was the most important in 4th ed).

Although I can easily say that the most important changes are these:
1) Changes to deployment
2) Inability to consolidate into new units
3) COVER SAVES EVERYWHERE WOOOOOOO

Of course, that's... all in my opinion. Which is right. And you are wrong.

So suck it.

Nurgling Chieftain
02-06-2008, 08:11
Movement is done as a unit, according to the section regarding charging if the unit moves through difficult terrain to charge the enemy then the entire unit is effected.

More specifically, if you have to roll for difficult terrain, you're going at I1 (subject to grenades, etc.). Whether any given model is actually behind cover or not is immaterial; if you roll the dice, you go last.

SwordJon
02-06-2008, 08:31
More specifically, if you have to roll for difficult terrain, you're going at I1 (subject to grenades, etc.). Whether any given model is actually behind cover or not is immaterial; if you roll the dice, you go last.

To add a little insight: since units being charged get a reaction move, this rule is (partially, at least) to prevent models who are "dragged" out of cover during their counter-assault movement getting screwed over on their initiative.

Huw_Dawson
02-06-2008, 08:48
3) COVER SAVES EVERYWHERE WOOOOOOO

That's just because you're an Ork player that just discovered his units can now survive a turn or two of shooting if you're clever, right? :p

I'm grabbing this new rulebook. 40k sounds fun again.

That won't stop me overcoming my only real problem I have wargaming though - the only gaming group I know of around where I live is full of 14 year olds screaming and argueing.

- Huw

SwordJon
02-06-2008, 09:13
That's just because you're an Ork player that just discovered his units can now survive a turn or two of shooting if you're clever, right? :p


Nah, it probably helps my opponents more. Now my rokkits do a tad bit less damage. I always use a Kustom Force Field in my armies so I already know what it's like to get cover saves 99% of the time.

IronNerd
02-06-2008, 13:20
Truely, the cover saves from shooting through units helped his orks little more than the KFF. It wasn't a problem for me (the problem was that there were 34039249203432 orks on the table...). I'm kinda scared to see a good tyranid player though... Screening = pure gold for an army like that...

x-esiv-4c
02-06-2008, 13:22
Sounds good so far.

SwordJon
02-06-2008, 18:24
Truely, the cover saves from shooting through units helped his orks little more than the KFF. It wasn't a problem for me (the problem was that there were 34039249203432 orks on the table...). I'm kinda scared to see a good tyranid player though... Screening = pure gold for an army like that...

60 Termagaunts, 40 genestealers, lictors and carnifexes. Mmm.

nathonicus
02-06-2008, 19:59
I've played 2 games (IG vs. Chaos, IG vs. Eldar) and had a good time with 5th. The first was a bloody draw that was really quite exciting, in the second I lost by failing to focus on the objective.

I haven't tried KP yet, and I know I will hate it as guard. All in all, the game is not drastically overhauled, but plays in a much more fun way, with units able to do a lot more. The objective based missions also keep things interesting. In my last battle Vs. Eldar, I was pounding my opponent for the first few turns and it was looking grim, but in the last turn he managed to get a squad in by my objective and contest it, while I had nothing in his zone. (D'oh, forgot the mission.) It made the battle a lot more cinematic, and kept it interesting up to the last.

It's going to take me a while to learn the ins and outs of 5th, as the shape of the battlefield has changed, what with terrain being wsywig. Constructing effective firelans in 5th will be a learning process.

Oh, one last thing, the new template rules are BRUTAL. My opponent leaves in FEAR of my Basilisk. >:D

lethlis
02-06-2008, 21:31
and guys remember only troops can claim objectives but every scoring unit can contest them. also monsters cant be screened by models in front of them unless they obscure line of sight. So shooting thru infantry to infantry gives cover save. shooting at monster does not. unless the monster is short or the screening models are on higher ground.

Also as far as infiltrating goes. the vehicles dont get to infiltrate normally but can do the outflank. The troops however must be deployed in the vehicle when they outflank so no sudden charges. this also only applies to dedicated transports

Joewrightgm
02-06-2008, 23:53
Even with the new vehicle damage table, and the -2 to glance, my Necrons are going to have some new life (pun intended).

Splata
03-06-2008, 01:14
While the monsterous thing is partially true you left out one key factor.

Because they are a monstorous creature they are basically counted as a wall. Hence giving the model behind an "obscured by cover" save.

So they will still get their 4+ in most circumstances.