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DullMentalRacket
02-06-2008, 02:20
I was thinking 3,

4's tempting but expensive.

2's also tempting, but they might not be able to accomplish much, i guess when in doubt,

2 units of 2 would be as good as 4. Better tbh.

theunwantedbeing
02-06-2008, 02:23
2 of them will break ranks.
Run them down the flank and they'll easily flatten a fully ranked unit.

4 starts to get seriously expensive.
2 unit's of 2 would be well worth having if you can afford the rare slots.

thenurgler
02-06-2008, 03:27
14, Use them as an Anchor in the center of your line.

Embalmed
02-06-2008, 09:19
3 is quite expensive too :P. I guess it depends what you see their role as being. I'm thinking if you go for 2 * 2 and you have Epidemius they could quickly accumulate the kills for a 4+ poison. Pretty wicked.

shartmatau
02-06-2008, 13:50
i use either a unit of 2 and a unit of 1 or one unit of 3. The unit of 1 is basically meant for tarpitting a crappy h2h unit, as they can usually live several turns in combat against a poor to decent rank and file unit.

Neknoh
02-06-2008, 14:07
The main problem with Beasts is that they have no clear role but don't do well at what appears to be their intended roles. As I see it, their only use is currently to stand in the way of knights, which, to be honest, Plaguebearer units with heralds in them does better.

The Beast is a tricky part of the new list, instabillity makes it a LOT worse at holding R&F units in place, costing large ammounts of wounds to do so, whilst a relative slow and a random number of attacks diminishes the effect of the beast on the overall game. Furthermore, it's high cost prevents you from taking units of 3 or 4, which, to me, appears to be the ideal, if not minimum unit sizes to keep the beasts effective.

shartmatau
02-06-2008, 14:23
Maybe, but I'm wondering if you ahve played with them yet. In 4 games using 3 beasts in each game I have only lost two of them. thats 2 beasts out of 12. With several games they were tarpitting units for multiple turns.
They mostly take wounds from losing combat. So if a BSB or general is nearby then all is well. The really don't win combat often, unless you do get a flank, but they can hold units very well and are fast enough to get in the face of a choice target.

I use them because the only other unit that can hold a big unit in may army are the plaguebearers with herald. Which are great but a very expensive unit, far more than the beasts.

Lugburz
02-06-2008, 23:04
I used three of them in a unit my last battle, but I can't really say if they are worth it. They charged a unit of Dark Elf spearelves, and got a very nice sum of 17 attacks! 16 of these hit, but no poison, and none of the 16 managed to wound the spearelves.... I then lost the combat by 5 points, and rolled double five on my break test, but I rerolled it since mye bsb was withing 12. The new roll was a double 6, so I only had 1 beast left with two wounds that got molested the next round of combat...

BUT if it wasn't for this insane amouth of *whisper* bad luck, they would be a great flank protector. Strong enough to damage and hold against infantry, and tough enough to hold against a knight charge.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
02-06-2008, 23:17
I don't even think that's statistically possible.

You are telling us you picked up 16 dice...threw them all at once...and not ONE of them was a "3" or better ? Come on. Don't be ridiculous.

Beasts are STR-4 - Dark Elves are T-3 (Spearmen, for sure).


How could you not have generated a single wound with THAT many dice ? :wtf:

Lugburz
02-06-2008, 23:37
I don't even think that's statistically possible.

You are telling us you picked up 16 dice...threw them all at once...and not ONE of them was a "3" or better ? Come on. Don't be ridiculous.

Beasts are STR-4 - Dark Elves are T-3 (Spearmen, for sure).


How could you not have generated a single wound with THAT many dice ? :wtf:


I know. A moment I wanted to cry, but I battled it with humor and I almost died laughing instead. But yes, 16 dice, not a single wound, and not a single poison wound.

Could be the God of Dices cursing me for for faking two of the beasts, using trolls (I only got the spearhead, so I had to fake the beasts, and borrow a regiment of plaguebeares).

I still won tho, the rest of the army did great. My Khorne herald triple killingblowed his highborn.

DullMentalRacket
02-06-2008, 23:40
could have saved the few that wounded :P

akrimpen
09-06-2008, 13:33
Sitting in the train this morning (having played a battle yesterday), an idea/question popped up:

Is a GUO allowed to join an unit of Beasts of Nurgle?

(I must apologize before hand; don't have rule books here available; still desperately seeking answer ;-)

melgorth
09-06-2008, 17:32
No I'm afraid not, greater daemons are not allowed to join units.

snyggejygge
11-06-2008, 00:37
I don't even think that's statistically possible.

You are telling us you picked up 16 dice...threw them all at once...and not ONE of them was a "3" or better ? Come on. Don't be ridiculous.

Beasts are STR-4 - Dark Elves are T-3 (Spearmen, for sure).


How could you not have generated a single wound with THAT many dice ? :wtf:

Actually Iīve seen something like this happen, a friend of mine had 15 archers & when rolling to hit he had rolled 11 1's & 4 2's, we laughed very hard about it, because we didnīt think we would ever see something like it.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
11-06-2008, 01:07
Akrimpen, you brought up something I have discussed at length over at The Daemonic Legion forum. There, I've been saying for a while now (since before the book's release) that one way to help out the GUO and compensate for his low attacks and overall combat ability against ranked-up units, is to give him a "Bodyguard" of 2 Beasts of Nurgle (1 per Rare slot) and have them flank him - essentially forming a unit, even though he's not - per the rules in the Daemon's book (pg-30), ACTUALLY "in a unit with them".

How is this accomplished ? Here's what I presented at D-Legion on the idea:

----------------

(Posted May 9th, 2008)
I've been arguing for their use as "Bodyguards" for the Great Unclean One.

I am curious to hear from people if this is possible - as I see nothing in the main rulebook which ever addresses it.


Basically, this is going to work best in a mono-Nurgle force, or one in which you are okay with taking Beasts for both your Rare choices.


Rare: 1 Beast of Nurgle (or more, but 1 is best for base-to-base reasons)

Rare: 1 Beast of Nurgle ( ditto )

Lord: Great Unclean One

------------

During deployment, place one beast of Nurgle down...then leave appx. 50-mm space (2-inches give-or-take) between him and place your second Beast of Nurgle down.


So you would have BEAST----BEAST (where the ---- represents 50-millimeters)


Then at the end of deployment, when you place all your characters, plop the GUO down between them with a sickening squish and begin play.


The idea here is that when the GUO is advancing 6-inches/12-inches (march), the Beasts are able to keep perfect pace with him since they also move 6.

Additionally, the main benefit is that they serve as vital Combat Resolution-through-Kills modifiers for when the GUO is forced (or wants) to fight a ranked-up enemy unit.

Normally, the GUO is only going to get a max of +4 for Combat Resolution, due to his being limited to just 4-attacks in the new book. With the Static Combat Resolution factor for most enemy blocks (+5 usually), you would always be losing the combat and have to test for Instability. With the Beasts of Nurgle, the formula changes since you would be able to get the GUO, and BOTH beasts into base-to-base contact with the front of an enemy unit, even if they are only 5-wide 20-mm's

(your total frontage is 40-mm Beast, 50-mm GUO, 40-mm Beast = 130-mm wide)

(enemy frontage if 5 wide of 20-mm each is = 100-mm wide)

(enemy frontage if 5 wide of 25-mm each is = 125-mm wide)

--------------

Either way, you will match up front to front and have at least corner-to-corner with the Beasts, so they are good to participate in the combat.

Their D6+1 STR-4 Poisoned Attacks, while not a "guaranteed thing", are certainly able to help out the GUO against many enemies, and possible give him another +3-4 kills, which translates to Combat Resolution...and ultimately helps the GUO to have a chance at breaking the ranked-up enemy formation.


It also adds +6 to the Unit Strength of the Daemon side (Beasts are US-3 each, IIRC), meaning your GUO and "Guards" are now US-16....given a few rounds, or against certain enemy units of 15-models or less, you now Outnumber them too, for a further +1 bonus to Combat Resolution.

------------------

I don't see anything in the book that says you can't place friendly models right next to each other like this, ensuring they will all end up contacting an enemy unit at the same time, if charging/charged...correct ?

If there is no prohibition, this seems like a great option for Mono-Nurgle, at least.

* Remember the Beasts have Slime Trail each, and with one on each flank of the formation/GUO - you don't have to worry about enemy's coming up to the sides or behind you - just as long as the GUO also has Slime Trail, that is *


----------------

* * Note that one potential weakness of this formation is that since the Beasts are only 40-mm based models now, they cannot full cover the "rear" edge of the GUO, when placed side by side with him. This means that a clever flying enemy can fly behind you, then charge the rear of your GUO - ONLY - and never have the rear of the two 40-mm Beast bases touching him, thus making it mono-on-mono between your GUO and whatever enemy character/monster/etc. it may be - - - this is not TOO much of a problem, given the way you can beef up the GUO, but it should be considered, in any case * *

DullMentalRacket
11-06-2008, 04:10
ive used 2 units of 2 the last 3 games ive played, and theyve almost always been MVP so far. Theyre a great unit.

samael
11-06-2008, 08:22
4's tempting but expensive.



Fielding that right now.

Yes it's expensive but (until now) impossible to shift.

GUO (general) and Herald with that banner that makes everyone within 12" stubborn (damn don't have my book here) in a unit of 20 Plaguebearers next to them and bobs your uncle.

akrimpen
11-06-2008, 14:47
Thanks for all the reactions and tips!!

(Been offline yesterday - aftershock of the great win of our soccer team ;-)

DullMentalRacket
11-06-2008, 21:53
as they cant get command and all nurgle has no other rare choice i see no real bonuses in take a unit of 4 va 2 units of 2.

Talonz
11-06-2008, 23:54
I just whipped a unit of swordmasters with 2 beasts this morning. Love the beasts.

medevilmike
12-06-2008, 01:21
I usually...up til now have been just maxing out on flamers, BUT i think i may add a unit of 2 beasts instead of one of my flamer units. now all i have to do is get the models and paint em before sunday.

lokigod
12-06-2008, 07:23
I have been using a unit of 3 for the past 15 games or so... They are the greatest point denial in the world! So far I have never lost more than 1 of them and they fufill the role of holding up what ever I dont want to deal with at that moment. They have held up dragons,killed 5 giants, killed 2 units of blood knights, and alot of regular knights! :) Basically If it's nasty I send the beasts to play with it until they deal with it or i can send help!