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Conotor
03-06-2008, 12:40
I just finished a slann and 10 temple guard. I also have 16 sarri. I have never fielded sarri before, (I used cav+krox) and I want to try it out now.

I want to try a 2nd gen slann, with diadem and tepoc, as i have never before experienced waiting on my side of the table.

Now, the unit has 2 slots for standards (TG and slann) and 3 standards I want: Prophasy (for anti-fear) Huanchi (for moving a skink screen and then chargeing threw it) and Chotec (To survive shooting)
I can take 1 of 2 sacred placks: the 5+ ranged ward for unit, or 2+ ranged for slann. Which one should it be?

For the sarri, Im thinking quetzle, but maybe tlazcotal.

My main enemies are Orcs, VC, and High elves.

EDIT: Do you think it would be a good idea to put a vet with a great weopon and gleaming pendent in the unit, and hide it behind skinks?

So, what should I do?

Malorian
03-06-2008, 14:41
If you are up against a lot of warmachines the 2+ ward is a must. Other than that I wouldn't take anything else.

You can rack up a lot of points taking these spawnings and magical standards and it's just not worth it in the end. You're better off just getting more saurus/templeguard.

Don't forget to make your slann a BSB though.

Oenghus
03-06-2008, 14:42
I tend to give my Slann the anti-fear banner, and leave the temple guard without a magic banner of their own. The damn unit is expensive enough as it is. I guess that's faulty logic, but there you go.

As for the Slann's magic items, I generally give him the 2+ ranged wardsave (don't want a cannonball or bolt-thrower or mage -- or several of each -- taking his head off), the Tepok plaque, and the diadem. Seems to work alright so far.

Tarian
04-06-2008, 00:09
Make sure you have a Dispel Scroll or 2 squirreled away. Pit of Shades makes a mess out of Slaan and the Temple Guard.

Kongen
04-06-2008, 00:21
I play against woodelves, darkelves, beastmen and TK, adn I always take a 2nd gen slann with plauge for 2+ ward save, banehead and tepoc. I give him BSB and Totem of Prophecy (fearcausing). Then on my 21 model unit of TG i place a champion, standard (warbanner) and musician. That block is ROCK-solid! I've been totally surrounded several times, but they have never fled! Because of your high CR before the battle (if all goes well: 4 ranks + 3 banners + outnumber = 8) u normally win, and if u are fighting something that isnt causing fear or terror, or is immune to psykologi, then they need snake eyes to stay! Works brilliantly for me :D

Plus, if I can, I tend to cast the spell that gives +4 ward save against shooting, (from the lore of heavens) with my skink priest, at my TG unit. Then they can shoot all they want! :P

Then march the whole thing up one side, and thereby deny one of your flanks, and then get into combat! Ofc while your slann is doing his thing ;) My warhammer-group don't know how to overcome this block yet :P

kroq'gar
04-06-2008, 04:10
Then march the whole thing up one side, and thereby deny one of your flanks, and then get into combat! Ofc while your slann is doing his thing ;) My warhammer-group don't know how to overcome this block yet :P

Pit of shades. 3+ your slanns instantly dead. 2+ any templeguard caught are instantly dead. No wounds, no wards.

2nd gen i rarely find worth it, much better with 4th, and taking an extra skink to hold that diadem. This also frees up a rareslot for stegadons (very useful to draw away fire from thh slann, with his wardsave people prefer to wound the unarmoured).

If you want to though- give the templeguard +d6 movement banner for a turn. This banner is the most hated item in the list (and ironically the best).

EDIT: and if you DO take a 2nd gen, NEVER forget to cast drain magic on the pit of shades character, EVER.

Kongen
04-06-2008, 08:19
Pfff.. Everyone talks about how dangerous pit of shades is. But I have never seen it go off against me. Why? Because my skink priest has 2xdispell scroll and I have targeted the wizard with bane head ofc. So its a no brainer. Plus he has to be lucky to get the spell. And as kroq'gar said, u just cast drain magic on him. No problemo amigo

Condottiere
04-06-2008, 09:31
Pfff.. Everyone talks about how dangerous pit of shades is. But I have never seen it go off against me. Why? Because my skink priest has 2xdispell scroll and I have targeted the wizard with bane head ofc. So its a no brainer. Plus he has to be lucky to get the spell. And as kroq'gar said, u just cast drain magic on him. No problemo amigo

Yes, but if you didn't fear its effect, you wouldn't have made careful provision for it.:evilgrin:

Malorian
04-06-2008, 15:53
I think it's fair to say that all LM players with a slann also take at least 1 dispel scroll (or at least 99% of them). And after the first time the opponent goes for it (if they even get it off) you'll be all over him.

I know pit of shades CAN be dangerous, but I don't fear it.

Kroq'gar: How can you say the 2nd gen isn't worth it? The PD/point ratio is impossible to ignore.

Conotor
04-06-2008, 22:04
Pit of shades: what armies can get this spell? I have never encountered it, and all I know about ti is that it is the 6th shadow spell and uses a big template.

Malorian
04-06-2008, 22:21
A lot of armies have access to it (empire, HE, DE, chaos, vampires, LM...) but first you have to roll for it to actually have it, then you have to be in range, then you have to actually cast it (I think it's a 12+) and this you have to hope it's not dispelled.

It's just not worth thinking about.

Conotor
05-06-2008, 00:14
Ok. If I take a ward plack, ill have no scrolls, though.

Also, what do you think putting a vet with gleaming pendent in the unit?

kroq'gar
05-06-2008, 03:56
I think it's fair to say that all LM players with a slann also take at least 1 dispel scroll (or at least 99% of them). And after the first time the opponent goes for it (if they even get it off) you'll be all over him.

I know pit of shades CAN be dangerous, but I don't fear it.

Kroq'gar: How can you say the 2nd gen isn't worth it? The PD/point ratio is impossible to ignore.

two words- total power. Turn one i lost my 2nd gen slan, and 5 templeguard.

You've laid out over a 3rd of your armys point in one character, or over half if hes in temple guard.

What have you got? A fat toad that can be autobroken.

Rodman49
05-06-2008, 04:03
two words- total power. Turn one i lost my 2nd gen slan, and 5 templeguard.

You've laid out over a 3rd of your armys point in one character, or over half if hes in temple guard.

What have you got? A fat toad that can be autobroken.

Your fear is irrational. Take the 2nd Gen Slann, he will dominate the magic phase - don't bother with the Temple Guard and guard the Slann's flanks with other units. I wouldn't even bother with the 2+ save, he can eat a few cannonball shots and be fine.

kroq'gar
05-06-2008, 04:44
Your fear is irrational. Take the 2nd Gen Slann

Irrantional? I didnt make that up, a HE w/seer opened a whole underneath him. Being a large target means short of dumping your highly pricey lord in the woods, he can be targeted.

Last time i fielded a 2nd gen slann without TG he terrored off the board from a flying ethreal black coach that was eating many of his PD.

Take it from somone with two slann models (three if you include my old edition) and 20 templeguard- They arnt worth it.

Keep them cheap & utalise their natural abilities. Always make the slann the BSB.

Condottiere
05-06-2008, 06:51
Irrantional? I didnt make that up, a HE w/seer opened a whole underneath him. Being a large target means short of dumping your highly pricey lord in the woods, he can be targeted.

Last time i fielded a 2nd gen slann without TG he terrored off the board from a flying ethreal black coach that was eating many of his PD.

Take it from somone with two slann models (three if you include my old edition) and 20 templeguard- They arnt worth it.

Keep them cheap & utalise their natural abilities. Always make the slann the BSB.

I think my friend has come to the same conclusion. He's stopped using his slann and reconfigured his LM army as combat orientated, with some cheap shamans as backup.:eyebrows:

Toltoļ
05-06-2008, 16:09
I almost always use my Slann because the model is great, and for the Ld9 Battle Standard... I try to keep it cheap, 5th generation is the norm for me at 2000pts. I give him the Sacred Plaque of Domination, and what I hate but have no choice, the Totem of Prophecy. Each time I play a tournament without the Totem I happen to be very unlucky and lose him because of a Fear causing enemy. I put him in a 12 Temple Guard unit with champion and musician, that make a 700 pts unit. I would prefer to have a banner "Immune to Psychology", but the only way to get this is by putting the Slann into a Tlazcoatl Saurus unit. It would be cheaper, but they lose Stubborn, are lesser fighters, and take a special slot.

I don't bother with the Chotec Standard, 40pts is too much. The Huanchi Totem is cool, but very situational, risky, and again too pricy.

I like the Vet with Gleaming Pendant. I already try this into a 4 Kroxigors unit. Let the Skinks die in front of them, the Knights of Horrible Death overun into you, and then SURPRISE! 16 S7 attacks ASF! Of course next time he will think twice before charging your Skinks when you have a Vet with your Kroxigors...

One-S
05-06-2008, 16:45
I always play my slann on his own, so you'll never see me fielding temple guard.
But if I had to make a choice, I'd play him with a unit of krox or Sarri.
I'd also give the huanchi totem to the slann.
If there's no temple guard you can play your slann in any unit you like.
Combine this with the huanchi totem and your opponent can get ready for a nice surprice.
For instance, place a unit of sarri in the middle flanked by 2 units of krox. Join the sarri. If your opponent gets ready to charge any of those units, move into a flanking position with one of the other units, join it with the toad and trigger the totem. There you go, a nasty flankcharge.
It would work even better if you've got a unit of saurus cav with (war)banner moving around. Your opponent will think that the totem is on them and won't expect your toad is carrying it.

The scar vet with the gleaming pendant.
I like this character, especially with krox (You charge. Next round still in combat? Strike first with great weapons:D).
But my favorite scar vet will always be the "jaguar saurus of death".

The slanns set up.
If you plan on playing him in the open, I'd advice you to go for the 2+ ward save.
You can hide the rest of your army behind skinks, so don't bother taking the 5+ ward vs shooting for a unit.
If your slann gets killed, you'll have a hard time winning the battle. So if you opt for a wardsave vs shooting, then go for the 2+ ward save for your slann.

Malorian
05-06-2008, 16:54
Irrantional? I didnt make that up, a HE w/seer opened a whole underneath him. Being a large target means short of dumping your highly pricey lord in the woods, he can be targeted.

Last time i fielded a 2nd gen slann without TG he terrored off the board from a flying ethreal black coach that was eating many of his PD.

Take it from somone with two slann models (three if you include my old edition) and 20 templeguard- They arnt worth it.

Keep them cheap & utalise their natural abilities. Always make the slann the BSB.

So let me get this straight, you'll pay for a slann (4th gen I assume with at least tepok and protection) but won't pay the extra ~100 points to double his powerdice?

Could you post how you usually setup you slann?

At 3000 I love fielding my 2nd gen slann and 20 temple guard. They can stand up to anything and can put out a world of hurt in the magic phase and in the combat phase. Through in a unit of saurus on either flank and off you go. (Actually I just posted a battle report with this very setup.)

Conotor
05-06-2008, 21:03
So, what does everyone think of the vet with pendent in TG?

Malorian
05-06-2008, 21:08
I like him better in a unit of saurus with spears, but it works just fine with temple guard too.

Just put a unit of skinks infront to take the charge and be slaughtered. The opponent laughs as they overrun into your temple guard, then they suddenly stop laughing when you use that item on your turn and crush them ; )

Disciple of Nagash
05-06-2008, 22:38
I agree that the Pit of Shades is something you should be worried about, not all casters are easy to take out, I play VC and its a different story going mage hunting when its a vampire lord on the other end, an VC player worth their salt knows how to keep their general protected for obvious reasons. Not only that but a Grave Guard unit with the Drakenhof banner will go toe to toe with the Temple Guard unit and will let the vamp be nicely in rage even if lurking behind them.
As for making sure you dispel it, well its quite easy for VC to get 17PD in a 2000pt army so you can save to DD for Pit whioch means IoN is getting through. So my advice is take the scroll, maybe even two because as soon as the VC player see's a slann sitting in that unit and he's got Forbidden Lore he will just choose shadows (FL gives him all the spells so he guaranteed Pit of shades)

Malorian
05-06-2008, 22:44
Then again if a VC character is using forbidden lore and using all those dice to try and get pit of shades off, you are already limiting the IoN you are going to be casting anyway.

How many dice do you figure you need to use to ensure you will get pit of shades off? You'd have to be pretty lucky with 2, 3 won't usually work, and even 4 is a gamble. Then you have to really worry about miscasting too.

Disciple of Nagash
05-06-2008, 22:50
Your forgetting I can take 3 other vampires with master of the Black Arts each, so that's a total of nine PD between them, still plenty for IoN

Malorian
05-06-2008, 22:54
But I haven't lost anything. You have 1 vampire trying to get off this 1 spell (it's a 12+ isn't it?) and all I have to do is wait for it to go off and then scroll it. Meanwhile there is a better chance you will miscast (and do god knows what to you) then an irresistable force. And I still have all my DD to stop IoN.

Disciple of Nagash
05-06-2008, 23:00
That's what my advice is - take the dispel scroll! Your taking the Dispel Scroll to counter something like the Pit of Shades then its something to be concerned about, which is exactly my point.......

Conotor
06-06-2008, 21:36
Meanwhile there is a better chance you will miscast (and do god knows what to you) then an irresistable force. And I still have all my DD to stop IoN.

Hu? Arn't both Misscast and irresistable on 2 1s or 6s respectively? Isn't that an equal chance for both?

Malorian
07-06-2008, 00:24
Equal except that if you get two 1s and two 6s it's still a miscast, and you basically have to use 4 dice if you want to get this off more than half the time.

Condottiere
07-06-2008, 04:44
Equal except that if you get two 1s and two 6s it's still a miscast, and you basically have to use 4 dice if you want to get this off more than half the time.

In the game you can usually afford one miscast.:p