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jpf1982
03-06-2008, 12:51
Okay I would like peoples opinions. Should I play Dwarfs or not. I hear they are powerful and get much hate because of guns, but I also hear that they can win without guns due to their great infantry stats. Expand my view please. :D

Thoughts/opinions?

==Me==
03-06-2008, 13:56
Not-not Dwarf things, play Skaven :p

I like the Dwarf background and some of the models, they are very characterful and "iconic" for Warhammer. I just can't play them, they are slow as hardened molasses and I prefer some mobility in an army.

Dwarfs are a fun army to play against if you don't max out on the shooting and use Thorek, their infantry blocks are indeed rock solid and are surprisingly under-used.

Malcador
03-06-2008, 13:57
The main question you have to answer yourself is: Do I like the models enough to paint up an entire army of them?

Dwarfs can be a very powerful army, a gunline is very hard to beat. Their infantry is ace, as long as you don't have to move. People always complain if the get beaten, and dwarfs are hard to beat, but so is every other army that's being handled by a good player. Dwarfs have a weakness, they are slow and so can be outmanouvered (speling?).

They have very good guns: organ guns and flame cannons are ace, so are thunderers and runed upp bolt throwers.

Infantry is very good, woth everything haveing an armour save of at least 3+ in combat, a leadership of 9 and toughness 4, they aren't going anywhere.
That's their weakness though, get around these units and you have reached the warmachines, which are easy victory points.

In short: they are powerful, but not too powerful, but not overpowered, unless you play a thorek ironbrow gunline, now that's beardy, but every army has a build like that, so hey, who cares?

Froth
03-06-2008, 16:05
Dwarfs? Of course you should! But then I would say that, I'm just a little bit biased.

I'd agree with the previous posters. The stunties don't win any prizes for the 100 yard dash. But then you don't need to hurry about the place when you know you're going to win. ;) (Yeah, I wish it was the case!)

There are a couple of 'fast' things that can create more tactical options.
Gyrocopters can give you the ability to go surging up the board and cause the enemy some hassle. And the Miners can pop up pretty much wherever you want, just not whenever you want. And there are Rangers, but I haven't used them, so I can't say what they're like. That's as far as your 'deep-striking' abilities go.
And I doubt we're gonna see Grudge Pony cavalry anytime soon. :b

I find I have most trouble when facing horde armies.
You have to be canny not to be overwhelmed by their sheer numbers, and most balanced lists lack the amount of firepower needed to signifigantly thin them out.
(Yes, gunlines are easily feasible, but not very fun to play against.)

But then that's why your basic Dwarf is as tough as old boots. As long as you can hold on; make enough armour saves and pass the break test, you should have had enough time to get another unit into help out.

Not all the infantry units have the awesome 3+ in combat save, Miners and Warriors with great weapons, for example, get 5+ from their heavy armour. Though the sturdy Ironbreakers do get 2+ in combat.
These guys are often my game winners. Just make sure of your Runes.
Mmmmm...Runes!

Brimweave
03-06-2008, 17:06
Simply, you could compare Dwarfs to a Stone Wall. They are tough, very hard to break (slayers are unbreakable) but like a stone Wall Dwarfs are very slow (I know stone Walls don't move at all :p).

People will player you as long as you don't use a Gunline (all ranged troops, organ guns, bolt throwers, no infantry) as it does become a very boring game.

Dwarf can use runes which you have a huge collection of to choose from (about 5 pages worth) which can be used on troops, warmachines, banners and all sorts. You can make bolt throwers into chariot killers and cannons re roll misfires.

Pac
03-06-2008, 18:02
Dwarfs are just great, they have the beast infantry in the hole game!!
Don't have magic but is not needed... firepower is just awesome, just set an organ gun into a flank and look at your opponent's face.

They too have almost the best magic items, things like the rune of challenge or the Rune of fear/rune that doubles your unit power combo are great and the person in front of you dont even expect it.

bork da basher
04-06-2008, 09:06
ive just started with dwarfs myself. i think a balance between huge firepower and sturdy rock hard infantry is key. backed up by miners and gyrocopters for some movement you still have mobility enough to challenge your enemies plans. letting the enemy come to you is a wonderful thing because it negates a huge portion of his standard tactics he would use on any other army he would face. there is little manouvreing to do so he cant really hope to outflank you mid table and take you apart there, nor can he sit back and hope to outshoot you, you have the range and firepower to pulverise him at range, he has to simply march (or not march if you use your gyro and miners correctly) into the teeth of your guns and hope to come out with enough guys to challenge your immensely tough infantry which in my case consists of 20 warriors, 20 longbeards and 20 ironbreakers with lord, thane BSB and runesmith. if your shooting has gone well i dont really know of much that could stand upto that calibre of infantry and come out on top.

ive played against dwarfs many times and they always gave me the most trouble, their toughness and armour means you wont be killing many of them and they have the LD and ranks to hold against anything. they give you little options but to chip away at them and try and somehow get on their flanks or rear.

Conotor
04-06-2008, 12:40
No, dwarves need guns to win. They have good stats, but the only way they can use thoes is if u shoot so much the enemy is too desperate to get into combat to walk around your flank.

Conotor
04-06-2008, 12:43
And I doubt we're gonna see Grudge Pony cavalry anytime soon. :b


They should SOOOOOOOO have dwarves riding giant mountain goats! That would be awsome! 1+ save, 6 movement, 1 impact hit...

Bombot
04-06-2008, 12:45
Dwarfs are just great, they have the beast infantry in the hole game!!

You've been watching animal troops play golf?!

chrisloomis13
04-06-2008, 13:05
As mentioned, Dwarfs can form a great gun line. However, I would not say they are immobile. If you do choose to take the fight to them there are units and runes to help you, and the most important thing is to watch your flanks. As long as your rank and file get charged in the front and the BSB is nearby you should hold and eventually turn the combat based on static combat resolution. I've run armies with just 2 bolt throwers and 10 thunderers as my only missile and the rest was rock hard infantry, and anvil to scoot'em about, and unit(s) of rangers, gyros and miners.

I had a first turn charge with my rangers one game against some wood elves. I actually beat the snot out of him, but I found out later that all his points were in one unit that teleported between trees so I lost the match on points.. or it was a draw I cannot recall.

Anyways, the best advice I can give you is protect your center line which will probably be warriors with a BSB and some longbeards, and get something hard for the flank, slayers or hammers, and the other flank hold with terrain or table edge. Faith in the Dwarf Warrior is key.

isidril93
04-06-2008, 18:56
Infantry is very good, woth everything haveing an armour save of at least 3+ in combat, a leadership of 9 and toughness 4, they aren't going anywhere.
That's their weakness though, get around these units and you have reached the warmachines, which are easy victory points.




how do they get a 3+ AS?
i know warriors have heavy armour and shield and thunderers have light armour but what about the other units?

Pavic
05-06-2008, 01:57
how do they get a 3+ AS?
i know warriors have heavy armour and shield and thunderers have light armour but what about the other units?

In HtH and assuming that they are using hand weapon and shield and not fighting to the flank/rear, the following units have a 3+ AS: Warriors, Longbeards, and Hammerers. Ironbreakers have a 2+ AS if the above apply.

jpf1982
05-06-2008, 16:34
I was thinking of diong a Bugmans Brewmaster Army theme, but Bugman makes your army way too expensive. He forces you to take longbeards and if that wasn't bad enough they have to be rangers. Ugh... However if I did do this what do you folks think would be a good choice of outfit? I was thinking multiple quarellers instead of handguns and maybe a bolt thrower or two, but I don't think cannons would fit.

redbaron998
05-06-2008, 18:17
I was thinking of diong a Bugmans Brewmaster Army theme, but Bugman makes your army way too expensive. He forces you to take longbeards and if that wasn't bad enough they have to be rangers. Ugh... However if I did do this what do you folks think would be a good choice of outfit? I was thinking multiple quarellers instead of handguns and maybe a bolt thrower or two, but I don't think cannons would fit.

Well I dont know abuot Bugsmens because I didnt like that, but if I did I would avoid most artillary all toghther, since its supposed to be a ranger army (though you could model some multi-part Bolt Throwers that are carried around by a group like a WW1 machine gun.

There are alot of different themes to dwarfs other than the common gunlines and such, for instance mine is a norse themed dwarf army.

Lots of runes due to thier seperation and thus ability to retain better runetech instead of engineer tech, no gunpowder. (PM if u wanna see the list)

You can do a Zhufbar engineer themed army, slayer themed, rune themed armies, etc.. etc...