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View Full Version : Starting Lizardmen, How should I build my Saurus?



The Orange
22-10-2005, 20:47
Hi, as the title suggest I'm starting a small Lizardman force. I just picked up some 20 Saurus Warriors, at a very nice price on ebay :D. At the moment I know very little about WFB, so I was wondering how I should equip my Saurus Warriors.
I plan to make 2 seperate regements of 10 with the Saurus, so to all of you Lizardmen veterans, is it a good idea to make on regement hand weapons and the other spears? Or is one of the configurations just plainly useless? Any other suggestons would be appreciated as well.

m1s1n
22-10-2005, 23:49
I no longer own the Lizardmen book, but as I recall they lose Predatory Fighter if they have a spear. I don't see why you would want them to fight with spears, h/w+s is generally better (depending on style, of course).

Also, I don't know why you would play them in units of 10. Giving up ranks will really hurt.

The Orange
23-10-2005, 00:28
I no longer own the Lizardmen book, but as I recall they lose Predatory Fighter if they have a spear. I don't see why you would want them to fight with spears, h/w+s is generally better (depending on style, of course).

Only those in the 2nd rank lose Predatory Fighter, so I think its still benefitial to have spears. My only questions is wether its worth it to have spears or not? I dont have any experienc in WFB so I'd like some feedback from vetrans.
I play Tau in 40K, and from experience I know that there are almost no benefits with pulse carbines as opposed to pulse rifles. I dont want to run into the mistake of building a unit just to find out that they are utterly useless.



Also, I don't know why you would play them in units of 10. Giving up ranks will really hurt.

Well I plan to add to both of them later. I just want to get 2 units built first.

neXus6
23-10-2005, 01:30
Well I assume from that that you are going to add to them before you play a game, if not go for one of 20 now.
I like the hand weapon shield load out, the 4+ save is pretty nice on 2 attack models, hopefully you will be able to get the charge using skinks to lure units out of position in which case spears arn't worth it.
That said a unit with spears deals out 16 attacks if you have a leader and none of them die, that is pretty damn brutal. I mostly went for the HW Shield because it was cheaper, but if you have the points go for it.

I'd just like to add that I'm not an expert but that's my thoughts.
:)

Snoozer
23-10-2005, 20:26
Well the hw + shield compo is probably better considering it's cheaper and you get more armor save, but I like spears more on saurus, they look better and if they get charged they have lot's of attacks back and to me the spears just seem to go with the lizardmen look and fluff better (at least my armies fluff).

But lizardmen are my second army so I don't think about winning games and how effective the list is so much as just making the army look cool and having a nice feel to it. (al though I have to point out that my lizardmen army is not even nearly finished, so I don't know if it will turn out like I have thought :p)

So basically it's up to you, I think both choices are viable, for what even kind of list your making, but if you're new to WHFB then maybe hand weapons are a safer alternative, you get more armor save and don't pay as much for them.

:D

Flypaper
24-10-2005, 01:09
Running spears means that you'll statistically lose one extra model and deal one extra wound in combat. Worth it? Not with expensive Saurus, in my never-humble opinion. :p

Saurus make better anvils than hammers - and funnily enough, they're better anvils without the theoretically defensive spears.

If spears were free I'd take them (but still not use them 60% of the time!), but as it is they're simply not worth it.

On the fluff issue: Aztec and Inca millitia (which is what Lizzie visuals are based on) were equipped primarily with morningstars, small shields and slings. So the copper maces on the Saurus sprue fit in a bit better than spears - plus hey, they look cool!

fredmundo
24-10-2005, 17:52
Well guys I was about to ask this very same question today so thaks for answering it, i also have another question though (sorry to kinda hi-jack the thread temporaily!).. with skinks what better, javelins or blowpipes? Or is it a 'depends on the plan for them' kinda question? anyway answers on a postcard..

DeathMasterSnikch
24-10-2005, 19:31
Javelins and shields for screens and blowpipes for flankers and scouts is how it usualy works but they work either way almost as well.

As for saurus IMO it depends on when your going to start playing. If you plan on playing soon then build one unit of 20 hand weapon and shield wielding saurus, if you plan on building up your army for a while before your first game then feel free to split the box 10-10. I advise making 2 units of 20 saurus and giving one spears and one HW+shields. Experiement with them and see what style you prefer. After seeing what they are both like build the rest of your army to reflect that by having more with one combo than the other, or making your army completely 50-50 with half your units having spears and half shields.

PS: If your bothered about losing a bit of an armour save you can always take the sacred spawning of quetzl. True your unit becomes special choice and with HW+S you could have had an even better save but im just trying to point out you could improve the save of the sauruses without making tehm all have HW+S.

There is also the sarcred spawning army lists that can be found on the GW website where your entire army has one type of spawning but your units don't become special choices etc.

Snoozer
24-10-2005, 20:53
with skinks what better, javelins or blowpipes?

Well like DeathMasterSnikch said, javelins are better for screening (because of the armor save and you don't get any 'to hit' penalty for moving, which is what a screen does) and blowpipes are better when scouting (because you can get to the right spot faster and don't necessarily have to move in order to shot)

And javelins are better against skirmishers, you won't be hitting 'em with blowpipes, which is always a good thing to remember :p

:D

The Orange
25-10-2005, 02:19
Thanks for all the help. As long as both choices are viable I'll try both out. I compleatly forgot that you only get the extra +1 to the save with only hand weapons and shields. But that brings up another quiestion, how does this work with cold-one riders who have both spears and handweapons? If they charge do they not get the +1 for using spears, and then get the +1 on other turns as they arnt using the spears then? Or are they excluded from getting the 1+ bonus? Agains Im still unfarmiliar with the rules, many thanks for any help :angel: .

Scythe
25-10-2005, 10:16
Cold one riders are cavalry, and cavalry never gets the bonus +1 armour save when using a hand weapon and shield in combat. Only infantry benefits from the bonus.

DJ_Silverpig
25-10-2005, 14:00
Unit of Saurus with spears cost a little too much.
You must pay 2 points (!) for each saurus you have in that unit and still only 4 gets one additional attack though it cannot be prevented by killing the front rank. This means that you should let the opponent charge to use every point in your advantage, otherwise you can't use the spears and if you do this and enemy slices your front rank, you get only 4-5 attacks rather than those 8-10 from front rank if you charge. Yes, saurus are slow, but if equipped with spears, it turn them to completely static unit. Saurus with spears get ONLY that one attack from the second rank when fighting with spears, 'cause the predatory fighters rule. Saurus are very tough against anything that come towards, but still it isn't good to just wait your enemy to attack. He won't charge if your saurus look too frightening, so if you use saurus with spears, paint 'em pink or something.

A box of skinks is a good purchase. You get two effective (One skink is more powerful than a horde: "A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn") skink units as compulsory core units of 1k army that is good at beginning.

DeathMasterSnikch
25-10-2005, 14:03
They get the bonus when charging then they switch to using hand weapon + shields for the remainder of the fight.

MarcoPollo
25-10-2005, 23:34
You can't change in the middle of the combat from hw/shield to spears. You must choose one or the other for the combat. Therefor, shields become the more obvious choice as you can still afford heavy ranks only costing 12 pts each, but at 14 pts each spears start to add up.

Besides, your saurus only have initiative 1 and will most always be striking last so you want them to stick around and provide combat resolution in terms or ranks and numbers as well as attacks.

I think I would only use spears in a unit of 10 so that those points don't go to waste.

Scythe
26-10-2005, 09:58
In units of 10 the whole point of spears is negated after only a few missle casualties...

Vandur Last
28-10-2005, 22:34
I agree with those who say units of Saurus should be left with handweapons and shields. The only way i think spears would be significantly better is if your opponent is unbreakable or stubborn. Then the CR and saving your models dont matter as much as dealing out the maximum number of wounds per turn.

Saurus with Hw&S are IMHO the best heavy infantry in the game.
Good toughness and saves? check
multiple attacks and good strength? check
rock solid leadership? check
faster movement than a dwarf? check
reasonable points cost? considering the above, check

If the Empire had anything even remotely like this id be ecstatic...and invincible!

slan
28-10-2005, 23:30
hand weapon shield , mark of quetzl and ful comand.

DJ_Silverpig
29-10-2005, 09:21
hand weapon shield , mark of quetzl and ful comand.
Yup, this is propably the toughest infantry unit in the game. (cheap points cost)

Still there must be at least 2 units saurus in your army or no saurus at all. One unit is a bit clumsy and easy to dodge. Three units maybe cost too much but two is good when playing up to 2k games.

oma
04-11-2005, 12:04
the saurus kavelery with 1 lord, and 3 heroes in it (2000 match) is a killer kombo if you give the lord -1 armor save and the 3 heroes 0+ armor save (i dont know the eksact magic items but it does work)

clangerman
04-11-2005, 15:49
Still there must be at least 2 units saurus in your army or no saurus at all. One unit is a bit clumsy and easy to dodge. Three units maybe cost too much but two is good when playing up to 2k games.

One unit can work fine, if your using it as a holding unit or mopping up stragglers