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View Full Version : Hmmmm, GW and their publishing company...



Ambu
05-06-2008, 05:10
KK, Years ago 3rd Ed. came out and got it the day it came out, much to my chagrin the main rule book started to fall apart at the sections in the binding, which made me very......irritated due to the fact I take exceptional care of all my books to the fact I don't want to even open them all the way and crease the cover. Later I find out it was wide spread do to crappy binding.

Many years later, after a hiatus, I decide to come back into the game. Holding off buying a rule book since a new adition is coming out I decide to go ahead and get the newest CSM codex as I hear the rules will coincide with the new rules. I go to one of my FLGS and pick up a copy and low and behold, not even a week after I bought a section at the binding has fallen out.

Has anyone else had this problem and so you know if GW is standing behind their work still and will replace this book. My not so FLGS is telling me basically that all sells are final and I need to take it up w/ GW.

Any responses will be welcome, I still plan on getting ahold of GW just wanna know what my chances are.....

ctsteel
05-06-2008, 05:15
without meaning to imply anything - have you considered how you've been handling it? ie have you been bending it around on itself or leaving it in a hot car in the sun or anything that will cause the binding to soften/loosen?

Perhaps is just a dodgy copy but if no other copies in the store's shipment are exhibiting the same flaw it could be something that has happened after it was bought?

But certainly contact GW and let them know about the problem, besides I would have thought your LGS would(should) take it as a defective one and do a swap over, and they could then return it to GW themselves so I don't see what harm it does to them?

Anton Gorodetsky
05-06-2008, 05:25
I don't mean to possibly insult OP, but my codices have held up perfectly. My Necron codex from 200(4, maybe?) is still in good condition binder-wise. It's used at least weekly, bent around, etc. Granted, there is food, bent pages, etc, but the binder is good.

Now on the other hand, the 4th edition rulebook is just about to collapse. The middle pages are held on by the inter-page strings, not by the spines binding anymore.

So, I would wager a guess it's a bad copy. If your LGS won't refund it, try GW. For 5th Edition, if it's at all like the 4th Edition book, it will last 4 years of hard use, and then just give up. But it WILL not go without a fight.

Ambu
05-06-2008, 05:28
without meaning to imply anything - have you considered how you've been handling it? ie have you been bending it around on itself or leaving it in a hot car in the sun or anything that will cause the binding to soften/loosen?

Perhaps is just a dodgy copy but if no other copies in the store's shipment are exhibiting the same flaw it could be something that has happened after it was bought?


No offense but yes as I said in my first post, I take extra care with my books, especially the glue bound books. Never leave them in the car, farthest I open it is just enough to let me see the info I need, I am so anal retentive that I cring if a corner gets bent or the spine gets creased.

As far as the LGS I am just venting in general. The GW reps that work this area are pricks to them. One of my friends who manages another shop opted to not do business w/ them any more for a mariad of reasons, one of which is getting talked to like he was a piece of crap because he only bought what he knew would move and wouldnt spend thousands more on stuff that would just sit on the shelf and collect dust. In fact I called him up and asked his opinion as well and he said GW WILL take care of the player but craps on the retailers (as I said, at least in this area). Warhammer has a following here in Ky but not a strong one....

insaniak
05-06-2008, 06:01
The 3rd edition rulebook was notoriously shabby. Mine lasted all of a week before it started coming apart at the seams, and I lost track of the number of people I spoke to who had similar issues with it. Mine eventually wound up in a ring binder.

The 4th edition rulebook held up better, but that's probably a combination of the hardcover binding and the fact that it didn't get thumbed through as much, as I grabbed the BfM set for the small rulebook to use for actual gameplay (The little one's only just starting to fall apart now).

I've had no problems with Codexes though. Even the newer, made-in-China codexes still seem to be reasonably well bound.

vipernyc
05-06-2008, 06:11
Rogue Trader (1st edition) was probably the single worst bound book I have ever owned. It was literally falling apart within weeks... and its not as if I was banging it around a lot either. 3rd edition was pretty bad too. I've never had any problems with codexes, or any of their softbound books, going all the way back to the first chapter approved.

Luzztes
05-06-2008, 07:00
I don't own csm codex so I can't say if its the book,you own doing or just bad luck. However my experence with other codexs has been good with none of falling apart yet.

Penitent Engine
05-06-2008, 07:18
Well, my CSM codex isn't falling apart, but my VC and HE ones are, in fact the HE one has lost the whole magis section because the binding came undone from the middle of the page outwards!!!!! :mad:

Overall though the books are of good quality, and I'm the only one cursed with ones that fall apart everywhere. And yes, I take good care of them.

Hellebore
05-06-2008, 07:21
Of all the GW books I own, only the yellow compendium from RT has pages coming out (coming out rather than the binding falling apart).

This includes:

RT paperback
Red compendium
2nd ed core books
All the 2nd ed codicies bar the ork codex

The 3rd ed rulebook and all the 3rd ed codicies (* the 3rd ed rulebook spine did have a seperation from the glue, but I squirted some pva down the spine, closed it and put some books on it. It hasn't fallen apart since).

The 4th ed rulebook and all the 4th ed codicies

The IA series

Hellebore

MALICIOUS LOGIC
05-06-2008, 09:32
The 3rd edition rule book was bad. I know a lot of people that took it to kinkos to have it bound because it literally fell apart. So I'm not supprised it happened to the OP.

But that is the only book that I'm aware of that had that problem.

~Logic

Galatan
05-06-2008, 09:38
I've never had any problems with any book at all and I've been playing since 2nd and own most codexs from 3rd en 4th edition.

Whitehorn
05-06-2008, 09:44
I've got books dating back 20 years. Only 1 has broken from its spine - my 1st edition rulebook, which was hardback and used a hell of a lot :)

Epicenter
05-06-2008, 10:27
GW binding was a joke back in the days of RT. There are some people who have RT books without pages that fell out, but they're in the minority.

My RT had pages falling out the moment I flipped through it the first time. I returned it, got another one and that loose pages before I even opened it. I took it back and the hobby store owner and I looked for one in the lot that didn't shabby binding - we didn't find a single one. I just settled with one of them. It's now missing pages. I'm not sure where they went.

Stuart-GreatEscapeGames
05-06-2008, 10:35
Guys, if your book is sub-standard, take it back and demand a refund or replacement.

Colonel Fitzgerald
05-06-2008, 10:37
Rogue Trader (1st edition) was probably the single worst bound book I have ever owned. It was literally falling apart within weeks... and its not as if I was banging it around a lot either. 3rd edition was pretty bad too. I've never had any problems with codexes, or any of their softbound books, going all the way back to the first chapter approved.

Yeah Rogue Trader was awful! I leafed through a copy a friend owned & dozens of odd pages had come out so when I bought mine for 5 from another mate, I cut to the chase, broke the book up & put each page into an A4 wallet & then lever arch folder (to be Alan Partridge in my description!) Other than that though, every other book I have ever had from GW has been good for the binding, from the Wargear book of 2nd ed & the Chaos Codex (the big yellow one with Abaddon on the front - was that 1996?) to the latest book I got, the Orcs & Goblins books for WFB. If only they'd remember to reprint the fulff, then we wouldn't need old codexes for army background:rolleyes:

Earthbeard
05-06-2008, 11:37
The only GW products that have crumbled over time for me are -

The perforated edged/hole punched Blood Bowl books and the RT main rulebook.

No others have fallen apart on me at all.

NerdyOgre254
05-06-2008, 12:11
Only the Third Ed CSM book has ever fallen apart on me. everything else has been fine.
And this isnt' the worst book that i've ever had to worry about for binding. Off topic, but the Exalted roleplaying book was an absolute nightmare. the binding didn't last more than a week, and i had it properly rebound so now its fine.

blongbling
05-06-2008, 12:47
ive never had a GW book fall apart and to be honest, never seen anyone i know have that problem

EVIL INC
05-06-2008, 12:59
GW has always used shabby book binding. A shame really as the contents are of such a high standard.
It is not a matter of being the unlucky one who gets a bad one, they are almost all like that and it is the ones whose books dont fall apart that are the exceptions. Most players are just so used to it they take it for granted and accept it silently.
The later books werent as bad but still arent "great".
Edit: The hardbacks are the main problems. The thin "paperback" codex arent the bad ones.

Jellicoe
05-06-2008, 13:09
Ditto for the RT rule book - very poor. Having said that 3rd ed WFb and WFB siege books have stood the test of time and were well used in their day

Tonberry
05-06-2008, 13:18
I wasn't aware that the 3ed book was reguarded as being that bad? Mine is still pretty tip-top, guess I'm just lucky. Most of my ancient WDs are in good nick too o.0

Fist of Crimson
05-06-2008, 17:51
3rd ed book fell apart on me too. I did the pva down the spine trick to keep it functining. I think one of the GorkaMorka books (might be Da Uvver Book)is losing pages too.

Never had a problem with a codex.

lijah_cuu
05-06-2008, 18:02
Having worked in a bookshop for far too long, its not just bl's stuff that falls apart. Huge chunks of hardback books come in need to be written off/sent back for credit. In some instances this can be very, very handy... I managed to sort out 6 copies of Dark Heresy for my gaming group / ebay as they were, ahemm, damaged.
Books are packed in sets generally of 8 - 20 and get thrown around like any other product, be it baked beans or a box of trainers. This is what causes the spines to weaken, well that and crappy glueing..

SockMonkey
05-06-2008, 18:51
GW bindings suck, have since rogue trader. Just have to suck it up and move on or just move on. I doubt they are going to get any better.

JLBeady
05-06-2008, 18:56
I work in the printing industry and I am very familiar with the binding equipment used and the typical problems that result from the various types of binding that are used, be it saddle stitch, perfect binding, traditional hard back, spiral, plasti-coil, comb, etc.

Based on the descriptions of the problems I would guess operator error, i.e. operator started running books before the glue was up to heat, set the grind off to low so the surface didn't hold the glue very well, or ran the machine to fast (Which the printer/bindery might have done specifically to meet schedule).

All of these problems could have lead to only a few books having problems to thousands of books having the problems. These problems would not be detected typically until well after the books had shipped and were being used consistent with their purpose.

That said, perfect binding in my opinion is not how these books should be bound. Personally, I think they should be bound using plasti coil and the covers printed on at least an 8 pt C2S stock. The books would lie flat, could be folded back on themselves, and generally last longer. Downsides are it would be more expensive and the lead times for producing them would take longer because plasti coil binding is more time consuming. In addition, because of the coil, they would tend to take up more shelf space, which based on how the size of my local GW store is at a premium.

My recommendation is as soon as you buy a codex, go to a Kinko's or other quick print/copy shop that has plasti-coil or even wiro binding and get the spine cut off and get it rebound using that method. It makes the books much more user friendly.

Ambu
05-06-2008, 22:04
I am happy to say GW were johny-on-the-spot. They are sending me a new copy ASAP and told me to keep the old one as a "traveling" copy. LOL, their prices may be a bit much at time but their Customer Service was quick and corteous!!!!

I'll take your sugestion though JL with my "travel" copy and get the spiral bound done to it. Maybe I wont be so anal on that copy (doubt it though).

Thnx All!!!

EmperorEternalXIX
06-06-2008, 01:39
I don't know, my friends and I all have multiple various warhammer books and they, even beat up, are completely unafflicted by the passage of time. Some of them are nearing three years old and still look presentable as on-the-shelf merchandise.

And I'm NOT talking about neat, conscientious guys here.

Where are you at? Speaking from experience GW probably outsources the publishing to different places in the US vs. the UK, as it would cost them way too much money to print them all and ship them overseas for such a huge part of their business.

Ambu
06-06-2008, 02:39
Louisville, Kentucky