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static-breed
23-10-2005, 04:02
I've just started up WFB and this is my first 1000pt. list for Skaven. Tell me what you think about it...

Chieftan 96pts.

Heavy Armour
Shield
Weeping Blade

Warlock Engineer 135pts.

Warp Blades
Warp Energy Condenser
Supercharged Warp-power Accumulator
Warp Tokens x2
Dispell Scroll



25 Clanrats 140pts.

Musician
Standard

25 Clanrats 140pts.

Musician
Standard

20 Clanrats 115pts.

Musician
Standard

25 Slaves 50pts.

25 Slaves 50pts.



4 Jezzails 80pts.

4 Jezzails 80pts.



Warp Lightning Cannon 100pts.



So tell me what you think...

Thanks in advance for any comments :)

EDIT: Ah...I just realized that this should have been in the army list section...sorry

Sirblood
23-10-2005, 12:46
Good starter list. IMO if you expand to 2000 ease up on all that shooting as it will limit your tactical flexibility.

skavenguy13
23-10-2005, 13:54
Well, looks good but you could take at least a weapon team.

And if you're new here with skaven, you might want to take a look (and post) at the Council Of Thirteen (just a few threads under this one:p)

BTW you're right: it goes in army lists.

Flypaper
23-10-2005, 14:00
He's got a hundred and twenty infantry-rats there, dunno that it counts as "all that shooting" :evilgrin:

I'd suggest droppping the 20-rat block of clanrats for some Night or even Gutter runners - you could use a little flexibility in the movement phase. Two teams of Jezzails is probably overkill at this points value unless you play against a lot of cavalry, but they're cheap enough that I can't really fault them...

DeathMasterSnikch
23-10-2005, 14:09
Cut the 2 Jezzail units down to one unit of 5 then use those points saved (60) on night runners with 2 hand weapons and throwing stars. Get 12 night runners. Or possibly 2 units of 6 but they will lack in staying power.

static-breed
23-10-2005, 14:46
The people in my gaming group collect Orge Kingdoms, Bretonnia, and Dark Elves.

Making the Jezzails into one team of five sounds like a good idea. Maybe, if I drop the 20 Clanrat unit as well I could get some Rat Ogres or Storm Vermin or 2 uits of 6 packs of Giant Rats for some flanking ability?

I don't really need any tunnelers at the moment since all the armies I face are either mostly cavalry, or just fast (Ogres).

skavenguy13
23-10-2005, 16:16
Well, if the dar elf guy plays bolt throwers, you should consider 3 tunnelers with poisoned hand weapons. 51 points (I think), each bolt thrower costs 100 and they could kill more than one. Also, if they manage to flank a shooting unit (archers, crossbowelves) they should win the fight.

A ratling gun could be rather nice instead of the block of 20 clanrats (buy tunnelers with the extra points). You should be able to kill about 2 knights per shot with it(panic test:D), 1 ogre (panic test:D) or 6 spearelves (panic test:D). Plus if you're playing it correctly, you get 1 shot AND either a stand-and-shoot or a shoot-in-CC. If you still have more than 22-23 clanrats, you can afford to shot into your units. If it stands and shoots, you probably will cause a panic test (meaning maybe you'll keep the ratling if they fail) but if it dies in CC, it would still have done enough. Be careful though because you get panic tests in 6" if it loses a fight.

I advise against stormvermin and giant rats. Stormvermin won't be a lot more effective than clanrats and will cost too much. Giant rats probably won't be able to do anything except flank charges and I doubt it'll be enough, especially with only 1 or 2 packs. And tunnelers are way better to take out enemy shooting.

static-breed
23-10-2005, 16:37
Alright, well here's my revised list then:

Chieftan 96pts.

Heavy Armour
Shield
Weeping Blade

Warlock Engineer 135pts.

Warp Blades
Warp Energy Condenser
Supercharged Warp-power Accumulator
Warp Tokens x2
Dispell Scroll



25 Clanrats 200pts.

Musician
Standard
w/ attached Ratling Gun

25 Clanrats 140pts.

Musician
Standard

25 Slaves 50pts.

25 Slaves 50pts.



5 Jezzails 100pts.

8 Tunnelling Gutter Runners 120pts.



Warp Lightning Cannon 100pts.



...and 9pts. left over. So tell me what you think. :)

Tanith Ghost
23-10-2005, 19:31
The gutter runers are a good idea, but it's best to have a back up plan for when I mean if they let you down. The slaves are also a good choice- don't be afraid to kill the off in amusing ways. Use them as scape goats when you can't avoid enemy charges, and charge them in whenever possible- you can shoot into combat.

Give it a try and see how the list does.

DeathMasterSnikch
23-10-2005, 20:43
Try cutting the tunneling team down and bulking both clanrat units upto 30. Tunneling teams are best kept small. Big teams mean if you fail a tunneling test you lose more victory points and you only need a small team to kill a warmachine crew.

static-breed
24-10-2005, 00:11
What if I make the tunnellers into 5 rats, boost the slaves to 30 each (I wanna' use them as more of a sacrificial unit to tie other units up rather than fleeing from charges) and buy another jezzail...after this I'll have 14pts. left to play around with. :confused:

Hespithe
24-10-2005, 02:20
Question: Why that particular setup for the Warlock Engineer? He can cast with a max of 3 dice, which will be generated each phase without the extra gear (condenser?) and the extra warpstone tokens. These are wasted, as he can only cast one spell per turn anyway. It may be better to invest the points in the Storm Daemon, or in another unit.

Or have I missed something completely?

DeathMasterSnikch
24-10-2005, 14:43
I say...Take the warptokens from the engineer, dont bulk the slaves anymore. If they are sacrificial they don't need large numbers. They arn't going to last. All you need is a unit of 20-25 that will buy you another turn of getting your clanrats into place. Bulk up your clanrats. With only 2 core units of 25 you could endup getting outnumbered by goblins etc. Go for 30.

Don't bother with more jezzails. They arn't worth it in a 1k point army. I don't usualy field any in a 2k point game. Spending mroe points on jezzails is more points that could be spent on clanrats or gear.

I've also considered the points of your heroes.

Engineer - give him the tenebrous cloak and death globes, a ward save against any warplightning that rolls a 1 and any enemy fire. Globes could cause a nasty surprise if you keep the engineer just behind the clanrats. Throw them into the combat :)

Chieftain - bands of power and cautious shield. enemy loses an attack and you get a str 8 attack. Combine this with an additional hand weapon and you get 4 str 8 attacks and the enemy gets 1 less or even 2 less if you chose to sacrifice all your attacks. ( could help stoping heroes killing your clanrats and winning through combat res )

Chieftain- Additional hand weapon
_______- Heavy armour
_______- Cautious shield
_______- bands of power
=103 pts

For 4 str 8 attacks, 4+ armour save and an enemy in base contact loses 1 attack or 2 if you chose not to attack yourself.

skavenguy13
24-10-2005, 16:36
Chieftain- Additional hand weapon
_______- Heavy armour
_______- Cautious shield
_______- bands of power
=103 pts

For 4 str 8 attacks, 4+ armour save and an enemy in base contact loses 1 attack or 2 if you chose not to attack yourself.

Yeah... right...:eyebrows:
Do you own a rulebook? I don't know in each section, but you should see that you can't use 2 weapons and the shield. And I'm 99% sure because it's a magical shield, he can't even choose to use the 2 weapons and let the shield down.

If he plays against ogres, weeping blades are VERY useful. You should keep it. And your engineer should cost left and have:
1 token (the basic one, no extra)
The thing that lets him cast with 3 dice
A dispel scroll if you expect to play against magic.

And 8 tunnelers would be pretty much useless. I'd say 5 is the max you should take. More than that is a waste: the kill warmachines, mages and flank archers/crossbowelves. And you have a 1/6 chance of "loosing" them for the game. With those points, I suggest taking more jezzails. Against bretonnia, you'll see they're awesome, but be sure they don't get charged in 2nd turn. With leftover points, buy more clanrats or slaves, whichever you prefer.

DeathMasterSnikch
24-10-2005, 16:51
Where does it say he cant not use the shield? It's exactly like a normal shield just with extra abilities. He gets a 4+ armour save Vs shooting and when hes in combat 4 str 8 attacks or if he finds something with only 2 attacks he can completely nulify the damage that could do to the rest of the unit, especialy helpful against weapons that cause d3 wounds etc.

True he can't use the shield if he wants to use both the hand weapons but he still gets a 5+ save. If he uses shield and hand wep he gets a 3+ save in CC ( hand weapon and shield + heavy armour ) and the enemy will lose 1 attack unless he uses both weapons.

In a 1000 point game there isnt going to be many things bar ogres that have a high enough str to give him a bad save.

static-breed
25-10-2005, 00:49
Chieftan 96pts.

Heavy Armour
Shield
Weeping Blade

Warlock Engineer 120pts.

Warp Blades
Warp Energy Condenser
Warp Token
Dispell Scroll



30 Clanrats 225pts.

Musician
Standard
w/ attached Ratling Gun

30 Clanrats 165pts.

Musician
Standard

30 Slaves 64pts.

Musician

30 Slaves 64pts.

Musician



5 Jezzails 100pts.

5 Tunnellers 75pts.



Warp Lightning Cannon 100pts.


I left the Chieftan as it is because it'll be quite effective against large creatures since this is where my combat ability lacks.

I only took the accumulator off the Warlock because I realized it was not needed but I still want to have a slightly powerful magic caster in a smaller game where it'll be important. I also took out a warpstone token since 3 in total mind be a little excessive.

And last but not least I added five rats to each unit to get a nice 120 Core Rats. Along with this came a musician to the slaves just in case.

How's it lookin'?

DeathMasterSnikch
25-10-2005, 00:56
Looks excelent :)

Good luck in your gaming as I don't feel the list needs anymore changes realy. Thumbs up to you my friend :D

static-breed
25-10-2005, 01:05
Thank you all very much for you critiques. I feel much more confident in this list than my past few. :D I think I'm ready to kill some Ogres, DE, and Bretts.

DeathMasterSnikch
25-10-2005, 01:27
Have any idea how cavalty heavy the bret list is, how many ogres there are and what's in the DE list?

I don't wan't you to change the list but im sure some helpful chaps on the forum can give you tips on how to deal with these armies etc

skavenguy13
25-10-2005, 17:17
Yeah, it's a really fine list now. Though if you don't plan on playing against crossbowelves nor leadbelchers, I suggest dropping enough clanrats for one or two extra jezzails. And please, remember they are made to shoot at cavalry or large targets (failing that, the hardest hitting unit) because with that many, you won't do a thing against infantry.

static-breed
25-10-2005, 23:03
From what I've seen and hear the DE player uses 2 Reaper Bolt Thrower, a unit of 16 Spearmen, 16 Crossbowmen, 5 Cold Ones, a Sorceress and a Hero on a Manticore.

All I know about the Bretts is full cavalry, and he seems to like the Grail Knights.

Ogre Kingdoms is everything in the batallion + Butcher I believe.

I may be a little off on some of these but its a basic guideline of what I'll be playing...