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Culven
05-06-2008, 22:20
I have started to get back into Warhammer after not playing for some time, and I have questions about two Vampire Powers. Spectral Form states that the Vampire cannot have magical items nor a mount. So, it seems legal to give him Avatar of Death, so he will have Heavy Armour, Shield, and a Hand weapon.

First, is there something I am missing? A Vampire with Magical attacks which cannot be harmed by non-magical attacks, and has a 4+ armour save (3+ in combat) against magical attacks seems like it might be rather powerful, especially if he is in an Ethereal unit.

Second, does this even sound like a good idea, or a waste of points?

Malorian
05-06-2008, 22:25
It's legal and powerful.

Loopstah
05-06-2008, 22:29
You could add Flying Horror on a lord and make him fly as well if you really wanted to.

Though maybe not if he was the only lord in the army.

Culven
05-06-2008, 22:33
I was actually thinking more of adding Infinite Hatred as well and sticking him in a unit of Spirit Hosts or Wraiths.

The Clairvoyant
05-06-2008, 22:45
yep i've done it before on my 3rd count.

I took spectral form, avatar of death (with GW so he matched the wraiths he was leading) and walking death to give the unit the equivalent of a banner

Malorian
05-06-2008, 22:46
Sure, but I would go with the great weapon. I'd rather go for the greater offensive power.

Any character that comes at you with a magical weapon won't really care about a 3+ save any way.

Disciple of Nagash
05-06-2008, 22:48
Its nice and fluffy but I wouldn't recommend him as your general, most hero's and lords have magic weapons nowadays, even the humble sword of might would be a worry and that armour saves not going to hold to much. With no access to any other kind of save plus him only being able to join ethereal units which are difficult to heal he is actually quite vulnerable, start factoring in dwarf runic warmachines, spells and chances are your armies going to end up crumbling.

Spirit
06-06-2008, 03:50
Vampire hero

Spectral form
Battle standard bearer

Inside 3x wraiths or 2/3x spirit hosts.

Nothing will kill this combo unless you let it.

Red_Duke
06-06-2008, 14:44
Other than a Daemon or WE army that is, what with them all doing magical attacks

EvC
06-06-2008, 16:07
Or magic missiles.

Darkangeldentist
06-06-2008, 17:47
I was originally a little sceptical of spectral form as you can't buy any magic items but I gave him a try and he turned out really good.

I'm not as taken with giving them avatar of death although you could make him flying or give him another magic level.

I gave mine forbidden lore and lord of the dead. Law of beasts can make him an awesome combat monster and most of the spells are easy to cast. Or go with law of light which gives the option for complete invulnerability. Stick him in a unit of wraiths with banshee and laugh as enemy heroes flail helplessly at the banshee who now is as nasty as her compatriots. (This combo will not make you any friends.)

Spirit
06-06-2008, 22:05
Other than a Daemon or WE army that is, what with them all doing magical attacks

This one, i will give you, but even against woodies, the M6 and magical attacks means they get the charge and munch most things that can harm them.

Granted against daemons you need lots of skill to do much, s5 and Ws6 (helm) still keeps them alive against daemons, and skirmish lets you get the charge even against slannesh. But yes, mainly they will get beaten by them.


Or magic missiles.

I have only ever let one opponent have a magic missile against my wraiths in 5 games, it was a tomb king, he killed one wraith...

M6 and skirmish means at most they will be subject to 1 (2 if he has really fast horsie mages) magic phase, which is what your scrolls and dice are for, let them do what they want to your army for a turn, once the wraiths reach you, its game.

Condottiere
07-06-2008, 04:38
Or magic missiles.

Surprisingly vulnerable to those.

Unfortunately, as a last resort, it's too often used, distracting your mages from dealing with more dangerous, but less immediate, concerns.:rolleyes:

EvC
07-06-2008, 12:59
I have only ever let one opponent have a magic missile against my wraiths in 5 games, it was a tomb king, he killed one wraith...

Try playing against a 2nd Gen Slann, or a new Tzeentch Daemon list with 20 power dice and a dozen magic missiles. Even without those types of armies, if I was making someone burn a dispel scroll or use three dispel dice to stop a fireball cast on a 7, I'd be quite pleased ;)

Dark_Mage99
07-06-2008, 13:08
I was originally a little sceptical of spectral form as you can't buy any magic items but I gave him a try and he turned out really good.

I'm not as taken with giving them avatar of death although you could make him flying or give him another magic level.

I gave mine forbidden lore and lord of the dead. Law of beasts can make him an awesome combat monster and most of the spells are easy to cast. Or go with law of light which gives the option for complete invulnerability. Stick him in a unit of wraiths with banshee and laugh as enemy heroes flail helplessly at the banshee who now is as nasty as her compatriots. (This combo will not make you any friends.)


What is it that makes this combo so invulnerable?

Jack of Blades
07-06-2008, 13:19
What is it that makes this combo so invulnerable?

The Lore of Light has a spell which makes any Magic Weapon used against the caster count as normal. Combined with Ethereal this means your character is immune to close combat damage, should it go through. But on the other hand, he won't be able to deal much damage.

As for the banshee thing, I suppose you mean to cast Bear's Anger on her? that's unfortunatelly illegal, as she's not a character.

EvC
07-06-2008, 20:14
I think he meant he was casting Pha's Illumination on the Banshee. It won't make you any friends though, as it's cheating, since a Banshee is not a character. You can cast it on the Vampire, though they already have 3 S5 attacks, and if there's someone with a magic weapon knoecking about, surely they'd just dispel the spell...

Spirit
09-06-2008, 02:25
Try playing against a 2nd Gen Slann, or a new Tzeentch Daemon list with 20 power dice and a dozen magic missiles. Even without those types of armies, if I was making someone burn a dispel scroll or use three dispel dice to stop a fireball cast on a 7, I'd be quite pleased ;)


Every unit combo has something that will beat the crap out of it. In general I find cairn wraiths game winners and far too easy to use, granted no one in my store has got a daemon army up and running yet, as I said before.

I have not yet found magic missiles to be a problem, even though there will be armies that cause magical problems for the wraiths.

EvC
09-06-2008, 11:06
But what are those five armies you've faced? One is Tomb Kings (in which case he should have been blasting them with his SSCs and people almost never bother with their magic missiles), none were Daemons, none were 2nd Gen Slann... If you've played 5 games using them and none of your opponents have had any ability to do any notable damage with magic missiles in the first place, then of course you're going to report that protecting them from magic missiles is easy.

Lordmonkey
09-06-2008, 13:15
I've never fielded any more than one unit of 2 wraiths and a banshee. While their potential in large numbers is obviously great indeed, the metagame is now so crammed full of daemons and tree spirits that the ethereal rule seems like a waste of points. Since I don't have a magic heavy list I typically only have enough Dispel Dice for spells that I *must* stop.

I suppose in a more magic-oriented VC army it would be viable, or at least one with plenty of scroll caddies.