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yeancientone
06-06-2008, 09:39
Just a strange thought I had. How would this army made using the 7 Knights rules (does that still exist in 7th Edition?) fare against a standard army?

Army composition - 4 greater daemons - one of each Chaos god, kitted out to the maximum :cheese: - I think that comes to around 2500 points.

Put 'em up against whichever army you like - obviously, this isn't going to be a balanced game, but I'd be curious to hear how you think it would pan out.

My first vision was of an Imperial army defending a city from these chaps, but anything goes. I'm thinking with all the terror and magic going around, you'd need a lot of units and dispel scrolls.

Cambion Daystar
06-06-2008, 10:54
I guess the daemons will be whacked pretty fast (think cannonballs, bolt throwers, static CR, ...). i suspect the slaanesh one is first to (easiest to take down) and the guo last (lowest damage output, and takes longest to kill)

LooseMoose
06-06-2008, 11:17
I'd say the Daemons would have a reasonable shot.
BT with: Dark Insanity, Immortal Fury, Armour of Khorne
GuO with: Level 4, Balesword, Vapours
KoS with: Level 4, Allure, Siren, Soul Hunger, Enrapturing Gaze
LoC with: Level 4, Master of Sorcery, Tzeentch's Will

2495ish?

Gunlines wil obviously cause problems but its not like you run them down the middle. If you do go against gunlines take Lore of Shadow for the LoC to boost the BT in and go psychology on them; saving Phantasmagoria for an opportune moment. With 12 power dice you're looking for an alright Magic Phase too. 4 Terror causers in your line could also be interesting. The 4 Daemons are fast enough to hit where needed and you'd supply the GuO with the charge he needs by Sirening the nearest thing into him. If you go against a more conventional army or something largely ItP then ram them in tag/triple teams at the weakest points and make the scariest thing on the field charge the GuO.

Neknoh
06-06-2008, 11:55
GuO should have Mucus, Vapours and Trappings, not the Balesword (with strength 8, rolling for wounds is all 2+)

Btw, Siren Song can only cause units to charge the Keeper, not something else. I say let the Great Unclean one move up the field and when the time comes, use his 4 levels of nasty nurgle magic to wipe units off of the battlefield. Bloodthirster will be having a field day together with the Lord of Change in combo-ing flanks of enemy troops, whilst we let the Keeper deal with Knight units

waaagh!grimgor
30-06-2008, 19:39
the deamons would die so fast

Condottiere
30-06-2008, 20:47
Probably depends on which side gets the initiative. Also dividing your fire equally against all four targets might not exactly be the smartest thing to do.

W0lf
30-06-2008, 21:46
Static combat res would be the death of the army.

Kill the blood thirster and the rest will crumble to combat res in due time.

Thanks for the idea thou, i will get my group to play this and post a bat rep.

decker_cky
30-06-2008, 22:35
I dunno....the GDs are fast, maneuverable and/or hit very hard. Any two GDs should tear through most any enemy unit. The LoC should have twin heads and dark magister giving you a far more powerful magic phase.

Unless you're facing a gunline of all cannons, the GDs would stand a very good chance of winning.

Urgat
30-06-2008, 23:26
Dunno, charriots, a lord on wyvern, the whole magic protection range, fanatics, a whole battery of spearchukkas, I see lots of things that would probably make short work out of them in my army. And my trolls seem rather good at holding them up, too. It's only 4 guys, just by concentrating on one at a time, you're getting rid of a quarter of the threat... In 2500 points, I can take 8 spear chukkas, nothing can survive that, even a regenerating GUO, imho.
Then you don't even have to worry about tactics, just rush them, have them stuck against something annoying (trolls for me, glagelants or greatswords for the empire, anything for VC, and so on), then crush them through static CR. The KoS and LoC ain't so hard, the GUO doesn't hurt so much, and a BT can only do so much.

_Lucian_
01-07-2008, 06:06
The biggest advatage the deamons have is 3 of them moving 20" a turn (2 fly as well). This allows them to direct large proportions of the movement phase setting up double charges. A tag team of deamons would take down all but the most stubborn of units and backed up with a strong magical dominance you are looking at a tough cookie to crack. Im not saying its unbeatable and ofcourse its possible to tailor a list specifically to beat them however alot of the responses ive seen are focused around beating them through static res, which from my experience cant be generated by the units fast enough to engage them if played correctly. Its a list i would actually really like to play against although it could swing either way and would be a real struggle to win against unless i brought a thorek type list

Tarian
01-07-2008, 07:15
I think one of the problems the greater demons would have is how vulnerable the list becomes if *one* bad dice roll happens. Losing one of the greater demons to a bad roll would hurt *much* more than losing a single unit to a bad roll. Assuming they're heavily outnumbered, they should be facing the full +5 CR (3 Ranks, banner, outnumber) And if their opponent has additional combat res (Warbanner, BSB, magic items) it becomes very hard to generate enough kills. And if they get tied down into combat, it gets even worse as supporting units can add to CR with flanks, rears etc.

As for magic, at 2500 points, you can afford a small pile of dispel scrolls to prevent the big nasties from getting off.

Ward.
01-07-2008, 07:22
It'd be an interesting battle, I honestly think it'd all come down to the BT needing a rear charge and the other greater daemons throwing magic missiles at anything that tries to hold him up.

_Lucian_
01-07-2008, 12:10
Thats totally difference from what i would see it :-) i would imagine a combined flying charge from BT and LoC while KoS and GUO hold flanks... although i suppose it depends on your opponent

Ward.
01-07-2008, 14:18
That'd be a risky strategy at best, the LoC while certanly killy has far to much magic potential to be getting stuck in place (this is a 2500 battle so any opponent should have more then enough units to get his flanks and rear, so warmachine hunting would be the best use for him). Also the GUO and KOS don't have any flanks to hold.

Lijacote
01-07-2008, 14:24
I dunno....the GDs are fast, maneuverable and/or hit very hard. Any two GDs should tear through most any enemy unit. The LoC should have twin heads and dark magister giving you a far more powerful magic phase.

Unless you're facing a gunline of all cannons, the GDs would stand a very good chance of winning.

I'd argue that Tzeentch's Will is in fact the better gift when it comes to magic. It'll save you from miscasts and help with irresistible, enable you to turn those pesky 2's into something more useful (probably) and might also save you from crumbling due to combat res. Infinitely more useful than the pitiful +2 to casting roll, imo. I argue this mostly because you'll love casting Bolt of Change every turn with a slightly smaller chance of miscast and a slightly... larger chance of irresistible. The d6 reroll is awesome (strength roll, number of hits etc) when compared to the static bonus of twin heads.

_Lucian_
01-07-2008, 17:55
Well you will still have flanks to protect as the last thing you want is being pinned by a block and counter charged by a hammer unit. If you were to leave the LoC with his 4 pd he can easily use them on non LoS spells and there is the debate about his ability to see over units hes in combat with as well. I wouldnt comit a BT to single combat and if you could send in the KoS the LoC could hang back, although if you were to honestly ask me which spells i would rather get off? lore o slan or lore o tzeen, i know which one i would prefer.

][nquist0r
01-07-2008, 22:36
Magic would play a large part of the game. If they were tooled out to the max you would have 14 PD and 8 DD, a respectable phase in 2250 points. If the LOC killed the warmachines while the KoS and BT combo charged/overrun each turn, and the GUO created nurgling bases as fast as possible to hold up the army from responding too fast while he chugged up behind his brothers I could see the daemons maybe pulling off a win against ballanced TAC lists. Now of course EVERYONE will want to say, Well my army would, "*fill in theoryhammer here...*" Of course lists could be tailored to take on the 4 daeemons, but this wouldnt really be the purpose of the scenario would? Against a TAC list this would be a fun and fair fight.

TIZNE
02-07-2008, 00:10
Losing to combat resolution? The Greater daemons (excepting the GUO) are fast enough to get flank charges and combined charges. Panic will do the rest.

It would definetly be hard to win against immune to psy and gunlines.

OldMaster
02-07-2008, 00:41
That would be so much fun :)
And nobody beats my Bloodthirster :\
Basically, I'd use the other three as screens and pwn twith the thrister everything that comes near :D
Gunlines... pfft. Terror! ;D
Only one that will be hard is VC, I think. However, at this points limit, I think we can out magic the other guy :O