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Alessander
06-06-2008, 21:22
The new rulebook has a shield on the cover (overlapping the hammer) and the shield has twelve symbols on the rim (plus a skull at the top). First symbol, clockwise from the skull, is the Inquisitorial "I".

I'm guessing these are the symbols of the High Lords of Terra. One of them (towards the bottom left) was the Navigators eye. Anyone care to guess on the others?

I emailed GW about it, if I get a response I'll post here.

Isoroku
06-06-2008, 21:24
What the Hydra Simbol?

ChaosBeast
06-06-2008, 21:27
everyone knows that the alpha legion have a high lord, he pretends to be an assasin pretending to be a navigator :D

Khaine's Messenger
06-06-2008, 21:54
I'd think it more likely they represent the armies available in the setting. Do you have a good close-up of it, or have I been neglecting the rumors forum? If it does represent the High Lords, that would be cool too.

Chem-Dog
06-06-2008, 23:51
It's the Imperial Callendar, it says so here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=60040199021&orignav=10). :)

Shibboleth
07-06-2008, 02:44
Most things that are 12 and 1 usually represent the Zodiac.

ThousandPlateaus
07-06-2008, 13:29
Good question! I've been wondering about this.

Also, the Emperor (I assume), on the shield, is holding back two serpents, anyone care to hazard a guess as to what they represent?

ADF
07-06-2008, 14:54
Most probably The Xenos and The Daemon, as the living/fighting Emperor did not have any real problems with The Heretic (as a treat classification)...

Kaldaris
07-06-2008, 19:54
The relief on the 5th ed shield is undoubtedly a reference to the Laocoon, a Greek sculpture.

On the book cover, the serpents are probably symbolic of the all-encompassing threat of Chaos. And the central figure can be symbolic of either the Emperor, Imperium, or common Man .

Lothlanathorian
07-06-2008, 23:34
It's the Imperial Callendar, it says so here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=60040199021&orignav=10). :)

You, sir, are incorrect. You linked to the rulebook that, methinks, is not of discussion here. I believe they are discussing the cover of the normal 5th Ed rulebook and not the super-zazzed up collector's edition.

Hellebore
07-06-2008, 23:39
It's the same symbol.

Chaos used to be depicted as a snake ~15 years ago. Horus was often depicted as a snake fighting the angelic Emperor.

Hellebore

Temprus
08-06-2008, 04:19
The calender is the big circle in the background, not the shield in the front.

Hellebore
08-06-2008, 04:24
Ah yes, I see it now. Yes it is a different image.

The shield conveniently has 12 seperate spikes, which all have seperate symbols on them (one being the Inquistion). Perhaps they represent the 12 lords of terra and the emperor at their centre (plus the skull at the top).

The Imperial calendar is most likely broken into 1000 units, as the Imperial standard year is divided that way.

It will be interesting to learn what all the subdivisions mean within it.

Hellebore

Xandros
08-06-2008, 07:23
It's the same symbol.

Chaos used to be depicted as a snake ~15 years ago. Horus was often depicted as a snake fighting the angelic Emperor.

Hellebore

It's older. The serpent has been a symbol of chaos since antiquity.

Jim
14-06-2008, 08:16
Hi Folks,

In the July issue of WD there is a whole article on the art of WH40K through the ages and in particular a section which talks about the new Warhammer icon from the front of the new rulebook...

It says that this design has the Emporer fighting 'something' on the front plus twelve symbols round the edge of the shield and a lion & eagle on the head of the hammer and hints these may have some hidden meaning...

So...what do we think these are meant to represent????

Jim

FlashGordon
14-06-2008, 10:33
What the Hydra Simbol?

The Symbol of Ordo Hydra!

lonepilgrim
14-06-2008, 15:15
I would think that the twelve symbols represent the twelve High Lords of Terra and their organisations - there is certainly an Inquisitorial I there at least.

t-tauri
14-06-2008, 16:51
So...what do we think these are meant to represent????

Merged to existing thread. Please have a look for similar threads before opening a new one.

Condottiere
14-06-2008, 16:51
My suspicion would also be that the symbols represent the organs of the Imperium.

ThousandPlateaus
14-06-2008, 18:57
The relief on the 5th ed shield is undoubtedly a reference to the Laocoon, a Greek sculpture.

On the book cover, the serpents are probably symbolic of the all-encompassing threat of Chaos. And the central figure can be symbolic of either the Emperor, Imperium, or common Man .

Undoubtably it's Laocoon - well, an 'inverse Laocoon', if you like.

I doubt the serpent is strictly Chaos, though, as the Imperium of Man isn't privy to the 'actuality' of Chaos. If you have a look at all other devotional imagery in artwork, it's always allegorical - like a statue of an eagle tearing apart a large cat (is that an allegory or a metaphor?).

The Imperium acknowledge 'the enemy' more as the threat of destruction from within and without by the alien and the traitor (witch, mutant, heretic) respectively, which is what I'd taken the two heads to be but wondered if anyone had another opinion.

lotrchampion
14-06-2008, 20:52
Actually I personally thought it was simply the symbols of the armies of the 40k universe...I am sure that there are Tau and Necron symbols on there, as well as Eldar. I'll check my store copy next time I'm in though.

ctsteel
14-06-2008, 22:47
the list of official playable races (ie with their own codex)

ork
necron
tau
tyranid
eldar
dark eldar
chaos marine
chaos daemon
imperial guard
space marine
witchhunter
daemonhunter

that's 12. Not sure if that fits with the symbology on the book?

Alessander
15-06-2008, 03:27
reply from GW:

"Unfortunately, we do not have any contact with the cover artist for the new Warhammer 40K book. Sorry we could not be of more help."

bleugh

Temprus
15-06-2008, 04:12
reply from GW:

"Unfortunately, we do not have any contact with the cover artist for the new Warhammer 40K book. Sorry we could not be of more help."

bleugh
White Dwarf says the Thunder Hammer was done by Alex Boyd, since he is a Studio Artist, they better have contact with him. :wtf: Says it is the Emperor on the shield and hints that the twelve points/symbols are important, as are the Lion and Eagle. Then it goes on to imply that there is even more hidden meaning to the Thunder Hammer/Shield.

Rirekon
16-06-2008, 16:20
There are also 20 studs on the shield, and 4 of them are missing/broken (as pointed out by someone else).
Presumably these represent the 20 Space Marine Legions, which would make the missing/broken ones;
III Emperor's Children
IV Iron Warriors
XII World Eaters
XV Thousand Sons

Interesting that the II and XI are still there, big reveal coming 5th Ed?

ThousandPlateaus
16-06-2008, 16:34
Which chapters are the Second and the Eleventh, then?

MagrukWikkid
16-06-2008, 16:44
'Expunged from Imperial records' if I remember correctly.

Richter Kless
16-06-2008, 17:01
The man strangling two snakes is obviously a reference to the Ancient Greece heroe, Herakles, who killed two snakes, send by Hera, when he was a child.

Perhaps it represents the Emperor killing the minions of the heathen gods. (the Cītan, Dark Gods, Eldar Pantheon, etc)

Temprus
17-06-2008, 03:31
Sorry, should have spaced the period better. There are three missing, numbers 4, 12 and 15. :)

Rirekon
17-06-2008, 08:30
Sorry, should have spaced the period better. There are three missing, numbers 4, 12 and 15. :)

Ah, well that throws the Legion theory out of the window heh

pookie
17-06-2008, 08:50
unless the emp is fighting against the two legions....

whats peoples take on the lion and double eagle head ?

Rirekon
17-06-2008, 09:53
The Eagle is the Emperor and the Lion would be Lion El'Jonson?

pookie
17-06-2008, 12:22
The Eagle is the Emperor and the Lion would be Lion El'Jonson?

its a double headed Eagle tho, so this should symbolise more than just the Emp alone, shouldnt it?

Condottiere
17-06-2008, 12:57
its a double headed Eagle tho, so this should symbolise more than just the Emp alone, shouldnt it?I think a double-headed eagle symbolizes either the empire or the office of the emperor, not specifically the emperor himself.

pookie
17-06-2008, 13:04
I think a double-headed eagle symbolizes either the empire or the office of the emperor, not specifically the emperor himself.

aye, thats what im thinking.

azazel_fallenangel
17-06-2008, 14:23
Lion El'Johnson is the only Lion refence I can think of in the 40K setting. Please correct me if there is another.
Maybe someone's going to spill the beans on the Fallen, sparking a new war? The DA might bring a couple of other chapters down with it, hence the missing Studs? Perhaps I't a reference to the lion sword, will Cypher get it to Terra?
All complete conjecture and guesswork mind you, no real clue at all till the book comes out.:confused:

colonel c
17-06-2008, 15:59
has anyone else noticed that the hammer head with the lion on it is bigger then the other? I wonder if that is meant to be the imperial guard and the head with an eagle is the space marines?

Grimbad
17-06-2008, 17:06
Some of the worky bits connecting the head of the hammer to the haft form a sort of long narrow lower jaw to the mechanicus skull in the center of the head. Almost... necron like.
On a slightly less conspiracy-theorist-like point, the head of the hammer symbolizes (to me) the mechanicus (as the servo-skull) holding the imperium together, with the lion of the astartes on one side and the eagle of Imperial authority on the other.

Scragglefoot
18-06-2008, 13:53
the two headed eagle represents earth and mars allience, as the aquila used to be a one headed eagle. Then when the peace treaty was made with mars the second bionic eagle head was added.

in thw white dwarf it says the lion reprosents the imp gaurd.

Scragglefoot

pookie
18-06-2008, 14:43
in thw white dwarf it says the lion reprosents the imp gaurd.

Scragglefoot

cheers, was wondering this.

Faustburg
18-06-2008, 14:59
the two headed eagle represents earth and mars allience, as the aquila used to be a one headed eagle. Then when the peace treaty was made with mars the second bionic eagle head was added.
Scragglefoot

Is that a recent canon ret-con. or just something you made up?


...because according to the old fluff that is not the case, there used to be a full break down on what the various parts of the symbol stood for in ways of Imperial institutions, with one of the heads lacking an eye to represent the Astropaths.

The Aquila wasn't used before the reunification of Mars and Earth, the Imperial sign before that was a lightning bolt.

Scragglefoot
18-06-2008, 15:11
i didn't make it up sure i read it in 2nd ed some where ill have an investigate when i get in.

i thought the thunder bolt was the emperor's symbol not the Imperiam's

Scragglefoot

ThousandPlateaus
18-06-2008, 15:28
Here's a breakdown of the Imperial Aquila:

sighted head = Adeptus Astra Telipathica
blind head = Adeptus Astronomica
right wing = Adeptus Mechanicus
left wing = Adeptus Custodes
crooked claw = Adeptus Arbites
straight claw = Administratum

This is according to that Inquisition Sourcebook thingummy from last year.

So it would appear that the left hand side of the Hammer is representative of Imperial Institutions, whilst the right is the Imperial Guard. By my reckoning, that put the original theory of the Adeptus Arbites being represented by the studs on the Emperor's shield.

Smrgol
30-06-2008, 18:18
in thw white dwarf it says the lion reprosents the imp gaurd.

Scragglefoot

It doesnt say that, it questions that...

The new White Dwarf gives you questions about the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield emblems.

Why are there a lion and one headed eagle, why is there a mechanicus skull, why is there a man fighting two snakes, why are there 12 spikes and symbols, why the honour badges on the handle, why the iron halo and wreath around the skull?????

and thats just a quick look at it...

zendral
30-06-2008, 18:41
It doesnt say that, it questions that...

Why are there a lion and one headed eagle

look closer, there are two heads on that eagle:)

Great Red Ninja
30-06-2008, 19:52
I read that the lions head represents the adeptus astartes (space marines), and the eagle is the imperial guard. Both being the fighting force of the imperium, so both being the hammer of the emperor. Two sides of the same coin, or hammer as the case may be... the skull being an image of death, and being in the head of the hammer meaning that it will bring death? i dunno...

as for the shield, the figure in the centre has to be the emperor Himself, while i think the two snakes are in fact being the one and the same (as i couldnt see their ends). if the snakes represent an enemy, perhaps it means the threat is never-ending? similar to ouroboros, but i suppose the emperor using a snake as a hula hoop wouldnt be as dramatic...
the points of the star could represent anything, its to small for me to make out. the high lords of terra would be a good guess, being the emperors will now since he is on the throne...fighting his war for eternity (since he is immortal?), and the high lords are outside this struggle, doing whatever they do...maybe im reaching here.

thoughts?

Condottiere
30-06-2008, 19:56
Just out of curiosity, will GW release an official explanation for this piece of heraldry, or are we condemned to endless speculation?

FlashGordon
30-06-2008, 20:01
Is that a recent canon ret-con. or just something you made up?


...because according to the old fluff that is not the case, there used to be a full break down on what the various parts of the symbol stood for in ways of Imperial institutions, with one of the heads lacking an eye to represent the Astropaths.

The Aquila wasn't used before the reunification of Mars and Earth, the Imperial sign before that was a lightning bolt.

so, left head= Adeptus astra telepathica (astropaths not blind btw)
right head(the blind one)= Adeptus Astronomica (navigators blind btw)
left wing=? Terra ? does not say.
right wing= Adeptus mechanicus
right claw=adeptus arbites
left claw= Administratum+ adeptus custodes(?) hmm....:wtf:

according to rogue trader.

ryng_sting
30-06-2008, 20:05
The snake represents the insidious threat of Chaos. As the Emperor keeps one head at bay, the other coils around his body (poised to strike?).

FlashGordon
30-06-2008, 20:06
Btw. Can we get a High resolution picture? :D

Lord Inquisitor
30-06-2008, 20:16
Seconded...
Best I can find:
http://bp3.blogger.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/SB-SF6y3idI/AAAAAAAABiI/4H3Kwne_sP8/s1600-h/5th-edition-cover.jpg

Assuming we're running with the "High Lords" idea. Who's got a copy of Codex Imperialis handy? What are the permanent High Lord positions?

Dragonlover
30-06-2008, 21:24
Anyone else notice that one of the serpent heads has no eyes, but the other does? This mirrors the aquila, so the shield image could in fact symbolise the fact that the Imperium is the exact opposite of the secular society that the Emperor launched the Great Crusade to acheive.

Dragonlover

TheHiveMind
04-07-2008, 03:49
I'd agree that GW are going for subtle references to this being 5th ed in the image, especially since there looks to be 5 purity seals on the handle of the hammer on the cover...
K.


Have any of you read the White Dwarf for July yet??? (I got it middle of June)
Read pg 42

They reveal that it DOES have many layers of meaning. It IS the emperor fighting snakes (Which, in my opinion have Tyranid heads), I have no clue about the 12 points (From what I see, they are Inquisition symbols, Ork symbols and such), though I think the idea that they represent the 12 lords of Terra is plausible. Also, just as there are 12 points , there are 12 races (Space Marines, chAOs Space Marines, Imp Gaurd, Daemon Hunters, Witch Hunters, Tau, Orks, Tyranids, Daemons, Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar)

Also, the heads of the Eagle and the Lion represent something more, but for the life of me I can't think of anything.

Nazguire
04-07-2008, 05:27
Also, the heads of the Eagle and the Lion represent something more, but for the life of me I can't think of anything.


Imperial Guard (Lion) and Astartes ( Eagle) ??

Could be two facets of the Emperor.

The Dude
04-07-2008, 06:05
Weren't they both heraldic devices used by Him?

philbrad2
04-07-2008, 06:13
Imperial Guard (Lion) and Astartes ( Eagle) ??

Could be two facets of the Emperor.

Try the enemy without and the enemy within.

PhilB
:chrome:

The Dude
04-07-2008, 06:17
Try the enemy without and the enemy within.

PhilB
:chrome:

I thought that was why the Eagle had 2 heads. To watch for both :confused:.

7th
04-07-2008, 07:33
It IS the emperor fighting snakes (Which, in my opinion have Tyranid heads)

I took the 'snakes' to be symbolic of the insidious nature of chaos, much akin to the snake in the garden of eden... tempting adam and eve and all that lark :)

Just a thought anyways.

The 12 points though, I couldn't make out much more than an inquisition symbol but I've not really looked too hard at it to be honest.

Frgt/10
04-07-2008, 08:38
re: the 12 points

the cog of the adeptus mechanicus also has twelve points, so my guess is that its the AdMech merged with the 12 high lords of terra


I thought that was why the Eagle had 2 heads. To watch for both :confused:.

heard an interesting story about this actually, no clue if it has any merit.
the two heads originally both had eyes, one head representing the Emperor and the other Horus. when Horus betrayed the big E, the eye got removed from the eagle...
take it as you will, just a rumor i heard many, many years ago

http://seraphap.tripod.com/40kicons/aquilla.jpg

Dosadi
04-07-2008, 12:34
I thought that was why the Eagle had 2 heads. To watch for both :confused:.

Ahhhhh, but one of those heads is blind. the Astronomicon is psychic, so it doesn't need to "see". The other head is the High Lords who have "a vision" of the Imperium.

As for the Hammer, I'm going to go with the snake representing a C'tan. It's really the only Big Baddie they they have not built a campaign around yet. Having a third C'tan wake up and a resurected Emperor leading the Imperium in a campaign against the tro of C'tan and their allies (orks, tyranids, chaos). They could even have the emperor form alliances with the Eldar and Tau to combat the greater threat(The past(eldar), the present(man) and the new(tau)).

Could they even bring the Sensei and Star Children fluff back from RoC days? the seem to be big on revisiting their glorious old fluff these days; everything old is new again.
The five seals represent the 5th edition IMO. The obvious choice for the Lion would be Lionel Johnson, who was the primarch of the first legion, so it could represent all loyalist astartes. Or it could be a allusion to the Fallen? Remember it was once mentioned that Cypher was on his way to Terra with a sword (the Lion Sword?) that could kill the emperor so he could be re-born.

Dosadi

Alessander
07-07-2008, 13:37
i have the rulebook here. Detail isn't that great.

The faces on the "spikes icons" are: (numbers are starting at #1 clockwise from the skull)

1) Inquisitorial "I"

6) half is the Inquisitorial I, other half is a feral drawn skull?

5&7 both have cogs around the outside, can't make out the middle.

8) Eagle/bird with a dagger or a sword in the center

11) Dagger

12) Shield

With the 3 studs missing from the inner shield, they could represent the two lost legions, plus Thousand Sons? (the Emperor was probably in the process of striking them from the records during the heresy before he realized the other legions were turned).

Ramirez1973
09-07-2008, 18:07
from what I have found out the twelve High Lords of Terra are. The Master of the Administratum, The Inquistorial Representative, The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum, The Fabricator General of the Adeptus Mechanicus, The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites, The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators, The Master of the Astronomican, The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum, The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. The last three I don't have any info on.

Hierarch
18-07-2008, 18:41
Ok so this is what I found out:

The Hammer : The eagle and the lion on it represents the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines. Often both armies are refered to as the Hammer of the Emperor thus it ties in with eagle and the lion being on the hammer.

The Disk: The 12 symbols on it represent the 12 High Lords of Terra and their purpose (Such as the Inquisition and the Adeptus Arbites). The man in the middle with the two snakes is not the Emperor, but a regular man that represents humanity and its struggle to survive hence the snakes trying to kill him. (Basically this is what the game is about, the survival of humanity.)

Hope this was of help to the people that were bugged or just curious about the symbols on the cover of the new rulebook.
Though this "could" be false so sorry if it is wrong.

Marsekay
19-07-2008, 18:27
Ok lads the hammers a weapon, the images on the hammer show the imperial armies and offensive capabilitys.

the shield however has the emperor "surrounded" by the 12 high lords, protecting humanity, just like a shield does.

:)

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
19-07-2008, 19:43
Just a thought about the skull...

Usually the Adeptus Mechanicus skulls are portrayed as half mechanical. This one has the mechanical part very small with the Aquilia hanging over it. Perhaps since the Golden Throne is failing with the Mechanicus unable to fix it, the Imperium will try and take control of them.

TheDarkFlame
20-07-2008, 11:31
To let you know, there's another thread like this. I just posted there. We've thrown a few more ideas around and we've thought of various explanations for most of these symbols.

pookie
21-07-2008, 08:43
With the 3 studs missing from the inner shield, they could represent the two lost legions, plus Thousand Sons? (the Emperor was probably in the process of striking them from the records during the heresy before he realized the other legions were turned).

doubt full (imo) the Emp was still dumb struck by the betreyal right up until the Traitors were knocking at the Imp palace doors, although if you count them in a certain way, they could represent Iron Warriors, World Eaters and the Thousand Sons ( so your right, just maybe not in the way you think ).

TheDarkFlame
21-07-2008, 10:04
Is it ok if I re-post what I posted on the other thread, or maybe just the sheild part of it, here?

pookie
21-07-2008, 11:02
Is it ok if I re-post what I posted on the other thread, or maybe just the sheild part of it, here?

yes if it adds to this thread, a mod may merge the two threads at some point anyhow.

TheDarkFlame
21-07-2008, 11:32
Ok, I'll only put the bit about the shield itself, as the topic doesn't mention the hammer.

Prepare yourself for a whole wall of text.

We have the shield obscuring most of the handle.We have 12 spikes, which may be the 12 Lords of Terra, but I can't be sure without comparing the symbols. Each spike is large, sharp and looking very dangerous... Maybe there's some meaning there, I'm not that well-versed when it comes to fluff. Of course, we can't ignore the large skull at the very top of the shield. This skull could very well be the Emperor, we already have established that.

Now, let's look at the picture in the centre of the shield. This is of a unarmed, unarmoured man with a halo and angelic wings, struggling to keep hold of two snakes or two heads of the same snake, which are snapping furiously. We can immediately say that is either the Emperor or one of His Primarchs, most likely a Loyalist one.

Now, the snakes could be an inversion of the Imperial Eagle, in which case He is either trying to stop the Imperium from destroying Him, or stopping it from destroying itself. Otherwise, it could be the same foe from two fronts or two different foes trying to destroy Him, and by extension the Imperium. Either way, those heads are furious. [Just a quick thought, it could be an amphisbaena, a mythological dragon-serpent creature with a head at each end. Maybe this could signify the Void-Dragon? /insanity]

Looking closer, we see the rivets. Twenty rivets hold the centre picture onto the frame of the sheild. We are pretty sure that these correspond to the twenty Primarchs, two of which went missing. Maybe these rivets are holding the body of the shield onto the frame of the shield, in a metaphorical sense. Without the rivets then the Emperor's struggle will be useless, and Humanity will be left undefended.

Now, there are three rivets missing. That means three of the Primarchs have left the cause completely, wanting all of humanity, or maybe just the Emperor, to die. I don't know enough background, so can someone try to figure out which chapters / Primarchs the Emperor may have caused problems for/would be most opposed by? If we count the top rivet as number one, then clockwise it's chapters 5, 13 and 16, anticlockwise it's 6, 9 and 17. Someone mess around with this, try and figure out if the placing has any significance.

Now, ignoring this, we have one thing nobody mentioned yet: The fourth rivet. Indeed, look at the top rivet again, it's connected to the Emperor's symbol, and seems to be bigger and brighter than the rest. Maybe this chapter is the Emperor's chosen Primarch. Maybe they are pulling the weigh of the missing three rivets to keep the shield strong. Of course, the first Primarch that comes to mind is Guilliman, who is impossibly healing. Of course, there may be another one, but I don't know. My lack of Fluff knowledge has let me down again.

Or... Maybe Games Workshop threw a bunch of symbols onto the front cover and is waiting for us to come up with good stuff that corresponds to it for them to use?

olmsted
26-07-2008, 19:10
I read that the lions head represents the adeptus astartes (space marines), and the eagle is the imperial guard.

flip it. guard=lion big tough and gonna smack you a good one when it gets its hand on you

space marines are the eagle. they hit hard and fast. also look in the rule book page 106 bottem right corner. as for the others your guess is as good as mine


also to note the first left stud is the =I= and then 5th down is the Adeptus Mechanicus cog. 1st right looks like a shield 4th right looks kinda slaaneshi symbol. although im sure one of them has the fluer de lance symbol. (upon squinting really really hard 6th right is the fluer de lance (however you spell it)).

also 5 purity seals. first looks like Imperial Fists. 3rd is a skull. not sure how but these could represent any loyal primarchs that are awol but not known KIA.

if i remember theres still the possibility of Vulcan, Dorn, Leman, Corax, Jaghita, maybe lion. theres even the slightest possibility of fulgrim being able to overpower the demon inside.

the only known dead loyals are Ferrus Mannus & Sanguinus and Rowboat is currently locked in stasis.


[QUOTE=Dragonlover;2741746]Anyone else notice that one of the serpent heads has no eyes, but the other does? This mirrors the aquila, so the shield image could in fact symbolise the fact that the Imperium is the exact opposite of the secular society that the Emperor launched the Great Crusade to acheive.

Dragonlover

on this note it depends on what you call eyes. the left serpent has holes behind the horns but the right one has them infront of the horns.

also on the thousand son notes. Magnus was on the emperors side and tried to warn him of horus's treason. in this horus tricked leman into attacking the magnus and it was as his army and their librarys were being butchered that Magnus called to any power to save him and his men. unfortunatly it was Tzeentch who heard the pleas and saved them for his own purposes.


in this way it can be said that the forces of the 1k sons never fell to chaos but they were taken and the rhubic of arihman can be taken as a way to stop the mastery of chaos. if you think about it, none of the 1k sons are possessed or mutants.

utrotaren
26-07-2008, 19:50
The snake is Horus and its the emperor that fight him.
Why two heads?
Betrayl and chaos, thats two enemys in one snake body.
The left snake head is without an eye, it look like a snake skull. That would make sense, because for the emperor Horus is dead and chaos is more alive than ever.
The right snake head has an eye and a smaller nose and look more alive.

Also the emperor have angel wings on the pic.
The fire probobly is the warp and the emperor hold it at bay with his angel wings.

Thats only my idť feel free to coment.

Utrotaren

Colonel Puti
27-07-2008, 19:59
As said by someone, the Lion is the symbol of the Imperial Guard. That would leave the two headed eagle to represent the Adeptus Astartes. But I think that the Lion would be a better symbol for the Space Marines. Why? Because it would leave the Eagle to represent the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy. The two organisations that have to work together to achieve anything. Also, eagles have been tamed to be used in hunting: Imperial Guard and Navy are under Imperiums command. Lions are still wild and free: Space Marines aren't really part of the Imperium, and are not under its command.

olmsted
27-07-2008, 20:01
As said by someone, the Lion is the symbol of the Imperial Guard. That would leave the two headed eagle to represent the Adeptus Astartes. But I think that the Lion would be a better symbol for the Space Marines. Why? Because it would leave the Eagle to represent the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy. The two organisations that have to work together to achieve anything. Also, eagles have been tamed to be used in hunting: Imperial Guard and Navy are under Imperiums command. Lions are still wild and free: Space Marines aren't really part of the Imperium, and are not under its command.

yeah but an eagle strikes quick and clean and its talon are like scapels.


and on the lion... well ive never known a lion to be quick in the kill or all that neat.

The Wildchild
03-08-2008, 09:47
Indeed, look at the top rivet again, it's connected to the Emperor's symbol, and seems to be bigger and brighter than the rest. Maybe this chapter is the Emperor's chosen Primarch. Maybe they are pulling the weigh of the missing three rivets to keep the shield strong. Of course, the first Primarch that comes to mind is Guilliman, who is impossibly healing. Of course, there may be another one, but I don't know. My lack of Fluff knowledge has let me down again.




If the rivets represent the primarchs and if they go in the order they were found then the 1st primarch discovered was Lion El'Jonson. He disappeared during Luther's betrayal and is believed to have been taken by the 'Watchers in the Dark' to be healed, he resides within an unreachable chamber within the DA floating homeworld, The Rock. The Lion out of all the loyal primarchs therefore has the most realistic chance of returning. Then again Roboute Guilliman of the Ultrasmurfs is set in a stasis pod on Macragge and is said to be slowly recovering from a fatal wounding by Fulgrim, since the Ultrasmurfs are GW's flag chapter of Space Marines, a revival of the most famous chapter's primarch is plausable...either way maybe in mankinds darkest hour one of the emperor's true children shall return to save what their father created!?!

Primarch-of-Ice
05-08-2008, 12:25
Hey guys, Iím a real everything-is-connected-to-imperial-history guy and and so alot of this post will be based on pre history because well realy we only know about pre history.
!I warn you though it is long!

To start with the shield, i reckon that it is either the Emperor or Sangunius. Why i think Sangunius? because during the siege on Terra Sangunius single handedly slayed thousands of daemons, Sangnius kept chaos at bay and killed a chaos daemon by removing its head maybe thatís why the hand is around the head...
If we go with the Emperor idea then i believe that the serpent is Horus because in the illustration of the Emperors Gate by John Blanche, Horus is portrayed as a serpent like daemon.
I also reckon the serpent actually means an attack from within because one serpent is missing an eye.

The outside of the shield though puzzles me because i was told that part of the Council of Terra were heretics that were trying to gain control of the Imperium (Iíll look for my source) and the way they are connected to the spikes to me seems like the spikes are the end of a meteor which i reckon is pointing towards and attack from the inside OR an attack from the council (maybe thatís why there is a problem with the golden throne...). It seems to me also that the reason the 20 studs are separating the 12 symbols and the Emperor is because the primarchs are the only REAL shield that the Emperor has, even though many have fallen.
By saying that, i also believe that the reason that the Emperor is boxed off from the 12 symbols is because he is fighting his own battles (psychically i dunno) with himself, chaos or the memories of his most favored son, Horus.
One last point on the shield, it seems that the Emperor is being engulfed in flames which i reckon suggests that the Emperor or imperium is being engulfed by the chaos of there war and that the man is fighting for his survival.

Sorry guys i aint done yet.

The hammer is now my focus and i reckon it has a lot to do with Lion El Johnson. Yes Lion is taking a snooze but it is written in the Dark Angles codex that he will rise when the Emperor needs him most (and seeing that the emperor is struggling to kill a 2 headed serpent that is probably a chaos within the imperium, id say he needs all the help he can get:D).
Also if im correct the Emperors Children bore the symbol of the 2 headed eagle and this could state that two opposites brothers (Lion-Imperial and Fugrim-Chaos) could come to the emperors aid. Yet again the chaotic side of me say that the 2 symbols seem to be moving away from the center skull which could bring up another thing i heard that involves Lion actually meant to be the real chaos primarch and not Horus, and perhaps this could mean that the gap is widening and the DA are falling to heresy.
But i realy cant decide over what ive writen or the whole space marine imperial guard theory.

The skull i think simply stands for the emperor and all the wires stands for the fact that the adeptus mechanicus are trying to save him from death.

Yeah thatís what i reckon the whole thing is and yes i will try and find my sources.

Personally i hope it means that the emperor is going to die a horrible and painful death by the hands of the council of terra:evilgrin:

So... yeah sorry to bore everyone but i though it could add a lot to the topic.

Cheers guys:D

Ravensgard
06-08-2008, 19:04
Try the enemy without and the enemy within.

PhilB
:chrome:

I think that is were the 2 headed snake stands for, for those are the threads that will ruin the Empire.

Lion = Astartes
Eagle = Imperial Guard
The skull with the "laser-eye" = Adeptus Mechanicus, for they supply the arms for both armies, and most technology is held "up-to-date" by them. Therefor they are in the middle of the lion and eagle.

For the symbols around the shield, i have no clue but I guess that if it has something to do with the races then the biggest symbol (the skull) represents mankind, or else it represents the emperor.

btw: is it my impression or bad eye-vision or are the symbols on the purity seals different cause I see on one a Fist and on another a skull and of one i can't make out a damn thing. (could be coincedence though)

Ravensgard
09-08-2008, 08:39
A few corrections from my former reply :

Eagle = Space marines, Lion = Imperial Guard
the symbols around the shield represents the hierarchy of Terra (see page 106-107 of the new rulebook)

these are : The Inquisiton, the High lords of Terra, the Adeptus Arbites, the Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Terra, Adeptus Administratum, Planetary Lords, Imperial Fleet, Officio Assassinorum, Adeptus Astronomica and Adeptus Ministorum.

Some of you will notice that the adeptus astartes, imerial guard and The emperor himself are not present on the list, but since there were only 13 symbols and the emperor, SM and IG were already symboled on the hammer etc I guess they were not relevant to put them also around the shield

ryng_sting
09-08-2008, 09:54
The man in the centre is the Emperor, as stated in the interview in WD.

Elric
09-08-2008, 11:43
I belive, and I don't have my copy of the white dwarf with the interview in with me, that the text regarding the lion and the eagle states " does this represent the imperial guard and the space marines or something more subtle?" [paraphrased]
It had occured to me that in the first history of 40k the emperor was the primarch of the dark angels. It may be a reference to that. The images on the thunder shield are to small for me to make out, but i'd assumed that they represented the high lords of terra.

andyg2006
09-08-2008, 11:51
Going back to what someone had said about the numbering of the studs:
The Marine Legions in question would be:
#5 = White Scars (Primarch missing)
#13 = Ultramarines (Primarch getting better)
#16 = Sons of Horus (Let's hope to heck that THIS Primarch isn't getting better!)

#6 = Space Wolves (Primarch missing)
#9 = Blood Angels (Primarch dead)
#17 = Word Bearers (still a Daemon-Primarch). But, as Lorgar's Legion wasn't even listed in the main list of Chaos Chapters/Legions in the current CSM Codex, we can but hope...it's long overdue for some of the Chaos-guys to have died out, anyway.

IMHO, maybe the High Lords of Terra are represented on the image, but I think that a reference to '12' might also be the 12 people who started off the Inquisition (and any missing ones are those factions which died out or got absorbed by other parts of the Imperial war machine)...aren't there 4 factions to each of the 3 Ordo's (Hereticus, etc)?

ctsteel
10-08-2008, 00:12
To add further conspiracy to all this:

Have you noticed that the placement of the 'rivets' around the edges of the rulebook cover, are irregular and not symmetrical?

Co-incidence? Artistic licence? Or, Grim-Dark-Conspiracy (tm)? :p

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
10-08-2008, 00:26
Hmmmm. Any particular reference to the numbers 2 and 11? Spotting this might point us to whatever is symbolic of the Primiarchs...probably stating the obvious...

The rivets...are there any other ways of organizing the Legions? Numerical doesn't seem to cut it.

Waywatcher-
10-08-2008, 00:42
What ever the sheild and hammer means, it looks kool, great peice of artwork.

For those that know about it, what does the man who is fighting a snake mean?

Waywatcher

djinn8
10-10-2008, 06:12
The symbol in the center of the shield shows humanity struggling against the two evils of a hostile universe - Chaos and Xeno. It is held together by 20 studs which represent the Primarchs. The three missing studs are the three Primarchs who have died: Horus, Sanguinious and Cruze. Surrounding the shield are twelve spiked symbols which represent the High Lords of Terra and their divisions. The thirteenth symbol located at the highest point of the shield represents the Emperor. The head of the hammer is comprised of three symbols, each representing the Astartes, Guard and Mechanicum, respectivly. The purity seals wrapped around the haft suggest that He who wields this weapon is pure of intent.

EDIT: Oh and in the background the imperial calender can be seen telling us that it is the 41 millenium.

Grindgodgrind
10-10-2008, 23:47
It is held together by 20 studs which represent the Primarchs. The three missing studs are the three Primarchs who have died: Horus, Sanguinious and Cruze.

What about Ferrus Mannus? Guilliman? Alpharius/Omegon?

Ddraiglais
11-10-2008, 07:32
Hmmmm. Any particular reference to the numbers 2 and 11? Spotting this might point us to whatever is symbolic of the Primiarchs...probably stating the obvious...

The rivets...are there any other ways of organizing the Legions? Numerical doesn't seem to cut it.

Perhaps it's the order in which the Primarchs were found and not the number of their legions?

ThousandPlateaus
11-10-2008, 09:50
The symbol in the center of the shield shows humanity struggling against the two evils of a hostile universe - Chaos and Xeno.

I think this is overly-literal. The image depicts the Emperor as a kind of Laocoon (albeit having a slightly better time), struggling not necessarily against Chaos and Xeno, but the internal and the external threats to the Imperium of man - these don't have to be literalised as Chaos and Xeno and are much more complex than this.

djinn8
12-10-2008, 12:52
What about Ferrus Mannus? Guilliman? Alpharius/Omegon?

Ferus Mannus is suspected of coming back as living Ctan metal. Alpharius/Omegon may never have been killed, and at best only one of them ever died. Gulliman is supposedly slowly healing in the stasis chamber he is entombed in. Finally, although you didn't mention him, Dorn, who's body is encased in Amber on Phalanx 11, has theories surrounding him that the body is fake and he now commands over the Custodians on Terra.

Gropius
14-10-2008, 22:43
regarding the serpents:
After Horus was deadly wounded on Davin, he was brought to the serpent lodge, priests that had a major role in converting Horus to Chaos. In addition the artwork page in VIsions of War dedicated to Horus is marked with "Traitor" on a picture of a snake, while the Emperors page is marked with "Loyalist" on a picture of a eagle, the heraldry of the Emperor.