PDA

View Full Version : 2250 pts VC, how would this one do against DoC?



Setomidor
07-06-2008, 09:02
Below is the 2250 pts VC army I'm considering. I've heard that VC might have a tough time fighting the new DoC, so some extra opinions on how this would do against DoC would be appreciated :)



Vampire Lord 445 Pts
Level 3 Upgrade, Sword of Might, Walach's Bloody Hauberk,
Helm of Commandment, Forbidden Lore, Lord of the Dead,
Master of the Black Arts

Vampire 195 Pts
Hellsteed
The Balefire Spike, The Flayed Hauberk, Black Periapt,
Infinite Hatred

Vampire (Battle Standard Bearer) 225 Pts
2 Dispel Scrolls, Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred

20 Zombie Horde 92 Pts
Std, Mus

Corpse Cart 100 Pts
Balefire

10 Skeleton Warriors 125 Pts
FC, War Banner

18 Crypt Ghouls 152 Pts
Ghast

5 Dire Wolves 40 Pts

5 Dire Wolves 40 Pts

20 Grave Guard 270 Pts
FC

3 Fell Bats 60 Pts

5 Blood Knights 305 Pts
Std, Banner of Hellfire

Black Coach 200

Total Roster Cost: 2249

Should I exchange supernatural horror for something else on the Hellsteed vampire? This is wasted points against some opponents (DoC, VC, TK), but could prove really useful against others (Skaven, Empire, Brets). Perhaps Infinite hatred is better?

Any input is appreciated!

//Seto

Dark_Mage99
07-06-2008, 12:19
Well, you could always just change it around based on who you're playing... tis the beauty of same-cost items.

I like the list, it looks very nice indeed. Hard hidding units mixed with nice blocks, and a nice amount of magical power.

I think the Hellsteed vamp in particular will work wonders against the demons.

Setomidor
07-06-2008, 13:57
I'm almost exclusively playing tournaments, so adapting to the opponent sadly isn't possible in this scenario.

The Hellsteed vamp would probably be even better with Infinite Hatred, especially against those flamers...

Malagant
07-06-2008, 17:04
Isn't Supernatural Horror going to be wasted against Daemons and other Vampires you fight in the tournaments?

Setomidor
08-06-2008, 08:49
Yeah, that's why I'm considering exchanging it for Infinite Hatred...

What do you think about the Ghoul unit? Would I be better of with another unit of Skeletons instead? (Given that I've already got Lord of the Dead).

Kerill
08-06-2008, 09:41
It seems the list is well tooled to take out a mixed daemon list, nurgle list or Khorne list. Pure slaanesh with a keeper or Tzeentch might cause you some issues though. A second balefire cart would help a lot against the latter, but where to get the points :)

Skeletons instead of ghouls would be fine, but not necessary, its up to you, although you need at least one unit of a decent size in case of heavy magic or flamer shooting to keep your vamps in.

Supernatural horror, as noted is fairly useless here, walking death or hatred would be better choices. I would also consider the cadaverous cuirass for that particular vampire, its cheaper and although it reduces your save by a lot (2+ to 4+) it would be very useful against Khorne and Nurgle units and would mean you would also have enough points left to get the gem of blood if you wanted. Alternatively you could go for the balefire spike, enchanted shield and wristbands of black gold.

If you go up against a Tzeentch heavy list I would suggest putting the zombies single file in front of the rest of your units, otherwise you will never be able to raise as much as your opponent can kill with magic.

Setomidor
09-06-2008, 09:37
Lots of good suggestions, thanks Kerill.

I agree on the Balefire thing, but I can't find the points to spare :) I've considered exchanging the Black Coach for another cart and a second unit of Fell Bats, but as I've got a nice conversion lined up for the coach, it will most likely stay. The coach is also very useful once it has absorbed a dice or two, and if I'm up against the Great Standard of Sundering I might as well feed my coach the dice instead of using them. After absorbing four or more dice, the coach has a really decent chance of inflicting a Killing Blow on that annoying BSB:

Hit 3/4 with Hatred, KB on 1/6 for a total of 1/8 per attack. For five attacks (Wraith + mount), this equals 1 - (7^5 / 8^5) which is roughly 48%. Best thing is that the impact hits should help the coach to survive an extra turn or two, and subsequent rounds of combat still gives the coach a 35% chance of inflicting a Killing Blow.

If the coach is under the influence of the Helm of Many Vampires (aka. Commandment), the chances are 55% and 46% for subsequent rounds of combat.

On the issue of Skeletons vs. Gouls, I really got a hard time deciding. Statistics shows that for close combat, the following unit is better defensively:



S 3 4 5
Ws3 - G G
Ws4 S S -


And shooting:



S 3 4 5 6
- - G -


But then there is other things to consider. The skeletons can bring a standard and musician, tipping the scales in their favour. On the other hand, 11 attacks from ghouls with poison is pretty scary, while 5 attacks from skeletons isn't something to loose sleep over.

And then we have the issue of models. I've already finished a unit of skeletons, so they're definitely staying. A unit of Ghouls would be great for model diversity, but supposedly having the two of the same unit (and the appropriate raising power on the lord) would be beneficiary in terms of gaming.

Supernatural Horror is now officially changed for Infinite Hatred. About the armour, I've been having the exact same thoughts about his armour. The original plan actually featured the Enchanted Shield and the Cadaverous Cuirass, but then I found out that this combo isn't very legal any more :) I'd really like the extra protection against KB and poison, especially against Waywatchers and Skinks, but the 2+ save is also quite nice... I can possibly give him 3+ and immune to KB/Poison, combining the shield from Avatar of Death with the Cadaverous Cuirass (and another +1 for being mounted). Questing is, is this worth the extra 5-10 pts over the Flayed Hauberk?

Also suggested was Enchanted Shield + Wristbands (and possibly Avatar of Death for a total save of 2+). This also has the added benefit of protecting against things like cannons and bolt throwers, but comes at a slightly higher price than before. (+20 pts, of the top of my head).

Even though I'd like to be prepared facing DoC, the list should be designed to take on all armies, as I'm mostly playing tournaments anyway.

More comments? :)

Thanks!

//Seto