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Fallen401
08-06-2008, 20:16
Hey guys, i just needed an honest opinion on this one but would it seem effective to have Kairos Fateweaver as your only spellcaster in the army? Possibly with the Blue Scribes as a Power Dice generator?

The rest of my army is going to be based around a strong combat central base so i will have no pink horrors, Heralds of Tzeentch, or the like.

Will my opponents be able to counter a single spell caster easily? Even one as powerful as the Fateweaver?

Thanks guys, i appreciate it. :)

W0lf
08-06-2008, 21:03
Yes with the bluescribes it works.

I however run it with blue scribes + a normal Lord of change.

I dont really rate Kairos unless he has access to more dice through say... power vortex heralds?

Dont expect miracles though. 6 dice (poss 7? does he have vortex?) wont do much of anything.

By the time scrolls and power dice are done you are lucky to get more then one spell through.

Dark_Mage99
08-06-2008, 23:31
Kairos is way better than the average Lord of Change at anything spell related... it should work very nicely in conjunction with the Bluescribes.

theunwantedbeing
08-06-2008, 23:49
I dont really like kairos due to his inflexibility.
He's quite aweful in close combat...and as a daemon he can't flee, so if the enemy get's the drop on you with an opponent that has a musician (any fast cav basically) he is somewhat screwed as he'll be in a fight he wont be able to win.

Magically he can get upto 9 powerdice(this includes the 2 pool dice) but only generates a total of 4 dispel dice, the scribes dont really help at all with dispel.
Even with the +2 to cast your average opponent could afford to let you have a spell per turn and then remove everything else.

Although, as he is a flier who can negate ranks by flanking he does have uses in that respect when combined with other daemons charging the same unit of course.

I wouldn't take him though.
I'de take a normal lord of change, give him twin heads and make it level 4...cheaper, same casting ability and far more survivable and flexible in battle.
You can also give the lord of change a scroll, kairos doesnt have that.

Compared to somebody like teclis...kairos is really quite rubbish.

Dark_Mage99
09-06-2008, 12:47
Fair point about defensive magic. I don't think a LoC can be said to have the same casting ability though; Kairos gets the benefits of two heads but also has Tzeentch's Will. Combined with the ability to pick spells for every occasion and opponent, and he really is quite potent.

As theunwantedbeing says, though, it will leave you a little lacking in the defense apartment.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
09-06-2008, 16:17
I do agree that Kairos should have been given a bit more....oomph...to make him in line with Teclis...if he is truly the Greatest of the Lords of Change...and Tzeentch's "second in command" (Right Hand of Tzeentch) - in many respects, you would think he'd be mightier than the strongest mortal Elven Mage....but some could argue he's not, per his rules.

I think the Irresistible Force thing for Teclis is the most O.T.T. aspect of him. Kairos should have been given something that said "if two or more 5's OR two or more 6's are rolled when casting a spell, Kairos casts it with Irresistible Force" - some kind of enhancement to his chances of I-***** a spell or some such.

Now...that said, it seems like they were more trying to emphasize his raw Knowledge of spells, by pointing out "Kairos is the most versatile Wizard in all of Warhammer !" - and noting he goes into every battle knowing 14 different spells.

That IS pretty awesome versatility, when you think about it.

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* as a fun exercise, assuming you picked the easiest casting Magic Missile type spells in the game, how many Power Dice would you need to RELIABLY enable Kairos to cast EVERY spell he has (14 of them !!!) in one Magic Phase ?

I'll start with the Lore of Tzeentch spells - and remember he has +2 to his Casting Rolls from his Twin Heads:

1.) Flickering Fire: 1 dice (Kairos casts it on 3+)

2.) Boon of Tzeentch: 1 dice (It casts on a 3+ naturally, still 3+ minimum)

3.) Glean Magic: 2 dice (Kairos casts it on a 5+ dice roll)

4.) Gift of Chaos: 2 dice (Kairos casts it on a 7+ dice roll)

5.) Bolt of Change: 3 dice (Kairos casts it on a 10+ roll)

6.) Tzeentch's Firestorm: 4 dice (Kairos casts it on an 11+ roll - and it still sucks horribly - :rolleyes:)


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So that's 13 Power Dice just to cast his complement of Tzeentchian spells. Now if we picked the easiest 8 additional spells / magic missiles / etc. from the other Lores for him to know/cast, how many MORE Power Dice would he need to cast "everything" in one Magic Phase ?

*I am only mentioning this as it ties into the OP's idea of a Solo-Kairos -lol *

The_Dark_Lord
09-06-2008, 16:28
i believe Kairos to be much more deadly than teclis, first off his st and t, and all of the magic missiles and such that he can cast, also, he can fly. whereas teclis is awsomely powerful with his Irrisistible forces, he does not have that many spells that could severely deplete units. and he cannot escape a fast unit.

W0lf
09-06-2008, 16:28
Kairos is way better than the average Lord of Change at anything spell related... it should work very nicely in conjunction with the Bluescribes.

But the thing is... hes not.

He has better spell selection yes but still the same power dice. Kairos looks amazing but when you realise he has 6 dice to play with hes nothing. 6 Dice will cast 2 really good spells reliably but your likely to want boon (which is sooo dispelled) and with 2 scrolls hes pretyy tame.

1 Ws 1 attack means anything can hold him in combat.

Hes not bad but hes no 2nd gen Slaan or Teclis. At 2K such an expensive model that is such a one trick pony is not so great. I suppose its personal preferance but for the cost i much prefer the versatility the non-special lord provides.

The_Dark_Lord
09-06-2008, 20:53
1 Ws 1 attack means anything can hold him in combat.

i believe we are talking about magic here, not CC. but magic wise he is better than a lord of change, in the battles iv used him in people do not dispel boon because of my horrors magic missiles and my heralds adding dice to the pool helps. my opponents are too worried about the hail of magic missiles that will be soon too come. the fact is, he is a lord of change but with gifts that cost way over 100 pts. sure he isnt great in CC, but when i use him, barely anything in my army is. plus i dont really go into CC with lords of change either, i prefer to use there magic abillity, although having good stats for cc is pretty awsome when needs be, id still go with kairos in a bigger battle

Fallen401
10-06-2008, 09:26
Hmmm good points all around, thanks guys. Now that i've heard that i think i might just forget taking any GD at all and just stick to 3-4 Heralds in my list.

Sure i may not exactly have a big scary monster in the list but i like the idea of multiples over Kairos. Maybe in games of 3000+ i'll try him out.

W0lf
10-06-2008, 13:05
Yep.

No matter your oppinions on the greater daemons the fact a tooled lord of change cost the same as 53 horros is enough to make you think :P

The_Dark_Lord
10-06-2008, 14:28
lool ye, heralds are the way to go, although in bigger battles i do love GD just cos theyr so fun to use!

donaldtroll
11-06-2008, 02:22
Fair point about defensive magic. I don't think a LoC can be said to have the same casting ability though; Kairos gets the benefits of two heads but also has Tzeentch's Will. Combined with the ability to pick spells for every occasion and opponent, and he really is quite potent.

As theunwantedbeing says, though, it will leave you a little lacking in the defense apartment.

can kairos chose the light magic spell that gives 3 attacks s5 with no magic weapons working in b2b? if so it seems good concidering he has a 3+ ward save and all... and if it dosent work there is still the flaming sword... at least he gets 2 attacks str 7? 8? that hit on 2+


all in all he is basically cheaper than a maxed LoC as well