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Griffin
09-06-2008, 06:09
Ok, To start off my Fantasy army I've decided to get to Lizzardmen battalion boxed sets.

This will give me the following:

2x 24 Skinks
4x 12 Saurus
2x 8 Saurus Cavalry

This gives me a skirmishing unit for range, 4 infantry blocks, and 2 cavalry units. I think this is a fairly solid core to expand the army from. I have the following questions:

Are block of 12 Saurus big enough ?
Can the army survive without close combat leaders ?
Can I convert Regular saurus into temple guard, if so how would you go about it ?

You get to pick a lore of magic, and then role a D6 on it a amount of times equal to your wizards level ? If so, lets say I only pick 1 lore, will I have 4 spells from that 1 lore ? Or do I have to pick 4 different lores and then role 1 spell from each ?

Please help fellow scaly players. Is there any way to pick spells I want ? I'm looking to have a reliable magic phase so that I can shore up weaknesses in my army design.

Condottiere
09-06-2008, 07:22
You get to pick a lore of magic, and then role a D6 on it a amount of times equal to your wizards level ? If so, lets say I only pick 1 lore, will I have 4 spells from that 1 lore ? Or do I have to pick 4 different lores and then role 1 spell from each ?

A friend of mine plays LM.

Your Slann can pick and choose on which of the 8 Lores he wants to roll on, his four choices can come all from one Lore or one from four different ones, or any combinations inbetween.

Having said that, my friend prefers to play without a Slann and upgrade the LM's combat abilities for the points saved.:cool:

stampy
09-06-2008, 07:25
Just a little warning: you probably already know, but lizardmen are being redone in early 2009

Griffin
09-06-2008, 09:42
That's fine - I'm just doing them cause I like the History and Models.

dsw1
09-06-2008, 10:26
llowing questions:

Are block of 12 Saurus big enough ?

Personally, I would say no. I find that units of 20/24 (depending on how many are in the front rank) work great due to the 3 ranks extra in combat just in case you have a bad turn of dice rolling and score low wounds.


Can the army survive without close combat leaders ?

Simple answer- yes.
Expanding on this I would say yes because a Slann can make up for it all in "pure magic". What I mean is, in my experience, a Slanns magic can kill a few units before they even get into combat, and on top of this saurus are good in combat anyway so should be able to hold off what ever comes your way long enough for the slann to add advantages to the unit (i.e. portent of far)


Can I convert Regular saurus into temple guard, if so how would you go about it ?

Sure, if you want to and you tell your opponent what they are beforehand. Conversions are not my strong point so you would have to ask another how to do this I'm afraid.


You get to pick a lore of magic, and then role a D6 on it a amount of times equal to your wizards level ? If so, lets say I only pick 1 lore, will I have 4 spells from that 1 lore ? Or do I have to pick 4 different lores and then role 1 spell from each ?

Only the Slann has the power (In lizzies) to choose multiple laws. The slann can "pick and mix" what laws he likes, but has to roll for the spells. For example, a Slann can choose law of fire and law of light, then he may decide he wants 3 spells from fire and 1 spell from light and so you roll for the spells with fire (3 dice) and the spell for light (1 dice). If he felt like it though, he may also just choose all his magic from the same law.

Just to clarify, only the Slann can choose his law, skink priests are stuck to using law of heavens.


Please help fellow scaly players. Is there any way to pick spells I want ? I'm looking to have a reliable magic phase so that I can shore up weaknesses in my army design.

There is no real way to just "pick" the spells you desire unfortunately, if there was then a second generation slann would be an extra 50+ points in my estimation. If you just want spells that do "d6 st4 hits" then you could just choose different laws and change the dice rolled to a 1.

I hope what I have said helps you out, and welcome to the side of the Lizards.

him_15
09-06-2008, 10:54
Divide your skinks into smaller units, so they won't get killed or panic alltogether, and you get more units to deploy.
Saurus work best in 20, and the should be able to hold most of the foes.
You can just tell your opponent your temple guard is represented by saurus model, most people would be fine with that.
With Slann, as he's level 4 so he normally knows 4 spells. here's how it works, first pick a lore, and roll a dice, you get what you roll, if you don't like the spell, then you can decide to go for the first spell instead, Now choose for second spell by doing the same.
(The best thing about Slann is that you can decide which lore to use depends on your foes, let's say if you are facing wood elves, then more Fire! Or if you are facing heavy calvary, then go for Metal!)

Cycorax
09-06-2008, 11:04
I'd just like to add for a measly 15 points the slann can get an extra spell! (Plaque of Tepok)

Conotor
09-06-2008, 11:37
Are block of 12 Saurus big enough ?
Can the army survive without close combat leaders ?
Can I convert Regular saurus into temple guard, if so how would you go about it

Sarri: 12 can beat up goblins decently well if you are not covered in fanatics, but Id say 15-20 is best, as u can put in a standard hear without giving enemy heavy cav free vps. Try 3 units of 16 (1 man extra for missles), and if u find them too fragile, use 2 larger units. Spawnings are usefull. Quetzle is gneraly best, but if you know your opponent you can see where Tlazcotal would be better.

Yes, u can survive without heros in your blocks. However, u realy need a BSB with all thease sarri. Then take a JSOD to fly out of one block.

You could easily green stuff sarri with spears into sarri with halberds, but Temple Guard look realy awsome, so I suggest u get them.

One-S
09-06-2008, 11:47
I play lizardmen for I while now
So far I didn't buy sarri. I've got 1 scarvet and ... no, just one saurus, the scar vet.
I play a skink horde flavoured with krox, terradons, salamanders and saurus cav.
Al I want to say is, that you might want to think about the way you'd like to play your lizardmen before you start spending money on them.
It's possible to play with a slann, a priest and 1 Jaguar saurus of death,
no need to go heavy on fighting characters IMO.

MariosRizlasWet
09-06-2008, 12:25
Have a look around this site

Click Here (http://www.pyramidvault.net/)

and for Slann magic use this thread:

Magic Guide (http://www.pyramidvault.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=820)

I found them both really useful when deciding on which spells vs which opponents etc.


One thing I would add, is to roll for your spells individually. That way if you do get lucky and hit Pit of Shades 1st roll, you can move on without committing to 3 or 4 spells from that lore.

Griffin
12-06-2008, 16:17
Thanks Everybody, first battalion should be arriving tomorrow, then I can get a converting. Seems that I'll build 2 block of 12 saurus first with all the trimmings, then bulk out to 24 a unit.

hd.40
14-06-2008, 03:02
Get rid of the saurus calvary, there too expensive for what they do.

Griffin
14-06-2008, 06:27
Why is that ?

hard94
14-06-2008, 06:35
i like saurus cav. because when they hit they hit like a hammer.
Mvh. Andreas

huitzilopochtli
14-06-2008, 23:35
saurus cav are good. great in small units of about six. ALWAYS give your saurus spawnings if you can. two, i find, works best. quetzel and either sotek or tlaxcotl. units of twelve are too small. turn them into two of 24.

OldMagik
15-06-2008, 01:28
2 Things to get later on Kroxigors and Salamanders arguably some of the best units in the game . . .

Salamanders are auto-hit move and shoot volley guns(atleast until 2009) best in units of 2-3 3 is preferred . . (i bet my fellow LM playerse would say that they own)

Kroxigors Chariot killing fear causing, through skink charging killers :D Units of 3-4 are normally used i've never seen more than that except in the army book pics

Both are normals in most LM army though you can find ones /w out them

Most ppl prefer Kroxigors to Saurus Cavalry because Kroxigors pack a larger punch, but i tend to field both (best of both worlds ya know)

Most ppl say 15-20 saurus is the best and i believe them but i also field small units of 10 saurus that work like detachments flanking my block and taking out enemy flankers . .

Slann can choose lores not spells (if kroak just take one lore and you get every single spell :D) Remember we have magical supremecy over everything /w maxed out 2nd Gen Slann . . :D

I've never converted so i won't say anything but i think TG models will look a lot better than the converted saurus . . .

Griffin
17-06-2008, 08:25
I was thinking, second Generation slann with plaque of tepok will get 5/6 spells for a lore, correct ?

One-S
17-06-2008, 09:48
I was thinking, second Generation slann with plaque of tepok will get 5/6 spells for a lore, correct ?

Correct.
In addition to that he also knows the drainmagic spell.
Giving him 6 spells all together.

winkypinky
17-06-2008, 10:20
And it should be noted that the slann uses the "old" drain magic. Which is superior at shutting down single lvl 4 mages compared to the "new" drain magic, that just makes everything a bit harder.

Casting the old drain on a lvl 4 caster is the same as them never having an impact on the board again.

Prophet of Quetzl
17-06-2008, 12:20
Saurus COR are good but fragile. They are often compared to Kroxigors because they both take up a special slot.

Saurus COR advantages over Kroxigor:

M7 - not a huge difference from Kroxigors but can be important
WS4 - one of the few LM units to get above WS3; trust me you'll be cursing when none of the Kroxigors' S7 attacks manage to hit!
more attacks per frontage - SCOR have 3 attacks (2 from Saurus, 1 from Cold One) over a 24mm frontage: Kroxigors have 3 over 40mm.
Ld8 - a difference of about 10% chance of passing psychology/Ld tests most of the time.
AS3+ - not enough to be regarded as heavy cavalry but still better than the Kroxigors 4+ armour save.
Ability to take command group - this can be expensive and the necessity is dependant on the use (see below).
Ability to take magic banner - just search for 'Haunchi's Blessed Totem' and you will get the idea!


Saurus COR disadvantages compared to Kroxigor:

S4 (5 on charge) - whilst respectable, S4/5 will not cut through virtually all armour or reduce a chariot to matchwood with one blow! Kroxigor with great weapons on the other hand will.
W1 - imo the achilles heel: SCOR pay 35pts per wound (not including command group) whereas Kroxigors pay about 19pts per wound. This means that despite their poorer save, Kroxgors are generally more resillient then SCOR.
Stupid - SCOR suffer from the rules for stupidity because the Cold Ones have a brain the size of an overcooked pea. Not normally a problem with coldblooded Ld8 but these things can happen when you least want them to.
Aquatic - Krox are aquatic which can have it uses especially when combined with
Skink Screens - The ability to charge through another unit is pretty cool, moreso when both units are aquatic: you can make sure you are out of the opponents range and dictate the charge.


Basically Kroxigors are harder to kill so can be used a little more carelessly. SCOR need to take advantage of terrain and screening to make sure they get to the opponent in a fit state to do some damage. Krox are great at taking out heavily armoured or high T troops and chariots. SCOR have the potential to do more damage agains rank and file troops thanks to the high number of attachs they can get in over thier frontage and thier better WS.

I find two main uses for my SCOR. First and most often, they act as support troops. A unit of 5 without any trimmings costs 175pts which is quite respectable in the LM army. These guys can spend the first few turns sneeking around the flank allowing you to get a combined charge just as your main line of Sauri have got to combat. The key is to keep the SCOR protected as they manoeuvre. One good side effect of this tactic is that if the opponent has suffered at the hands of the SCOR before, he might waste several units to head the SCOR off leaving less for your main battleline to deal with.

The second option is to max out the unit with command, a magic banner and perhaps a character and charge head on to glory. You will need at least 6 models in the unit as they will inevitably loose one or two on the way. This is a mean unit but will draw a lot of fire power so agin the key is to protect it with terrain and screening.

At the end of the day, SCOR are useful and can potentially do lots of damage but they are hard to use well leading many people to opt for the less fragile options in the list.

kroq'gar
17-06-2008, 12:33
Sound advice, although marching forth without at least one saurus character is folly. You infantry cannot survive an encounter with an enemy character without one.

Griffin
18-06-2008, 10:59
Thanks all -

@ krog'gar - What If i just blast enemy characters with magic ?

Krusty
18-06-2008, 11:15
Thanks all -

@ krog'gar - What If i just blast enemy characters with magic ?

fastest way to do that is kroak...

buy him and a few other things, you will have a 3000 point army in no time

kroq'gar
19-06-2008, 02:51
Thanks all -

@ krog'gar - What If i just blast enemy characters with magic ?

If they are in a solid unit that wont happen.

One of my fav builds is 4+ward vs st 5 or greater, and +1 st blade.

4 st 6 attacks with a 3+save, 4+ward makes him pretty respectable for hero & rank and file killing. Thats before marks.

Vandur Last
19-06-2008, 07:29
Thanks for the summary of SCOR vs Krox, very informative.

I think i may avoid starting with the Battalion Box as the Saurus blocks are too small and im unsure if ill end up using the SCOR's.

Griffin
19-06-2008, 08:15
My first battalion is almost built, and started developing my paint scheme.