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View Full Version : Daemon Bombing in 5th Edition



Sami
09-06-2008, 12:54
Disclaimer: Forgive me if this has already been posted.
My Army: CSM

As we all know, in 5th edition only Troops count as scoring units, meaning your limited by the FOC as to how many point-scoring units you can have in your army list. However, the CSM codex has an ace up its sleeve: Summonded Lesser Daemons do NOT use up any slots on the FOC, but they are otherwise treated as a Troops unit.

Unless there's a caveat in the 5th Edition rules that only allows FOC units to capture objectives, Lesser Daemons can be used as extra troop scoring units, and due to the Daemon Summoning rules, can assault on the same turn they are summoned in. All you would need to do is get a model with an Icon of Chaos near a hostile objective (Raptors and Bikes seem the most obvious choices) and then unleash a storm of Daemons on one of the last turns of the game to get the objective, all the while using your FOC troop units to claim the others.

Have I gotten this wrong (in which case please lock) or does this seem a bit overpowered?

P.S. Summoned Daemons will never scatter as they always need to be placed within 6" of an Icon of Chaos.

Murphey
09-06-2008, 12:58
Personally, I think this is a lot weaker than you may think.

Since any unit can contest an objective, people are going to be contesting objectives like mad.

The problem will not generally be (for CSM at least, for things like 'nids it will) having troops on hand to claim the objective, it will be having huge crushy things sitting next to it, keeping you from taking it.

Also, if I recall correctly, Demons are rolled from reserves, which means you cannot wait to the last turn.

Sami
09-06-2008, 13:04
Ah yes, I had forgotten you can't hold back reserves (been a while since I've deep striked anything!). Well, the potential last minute claim exploit seems fixed. Still doesn't fix CSM having the ability to bring more scoring units though.

I suppose I'll need to playtest it. Still, for only 13 points per model they are going to be very handy to help overturn an objective.

Murphey
09-06-2008, 13:10
I donno, IMO those are points that could go towards some very good troop choices, that can claim objectives and do some real damage. (Noise Marines or 1k sons)

Grey Seer Skretch
09-06-2008, 13:12
Tbh, if you come at it from a narrative pov (and looking at what Jervis and others have been saying, thats where the design team are coming from atm) thats absolutely appropriate! It won't come off very often, as the Daemons would be too eager to surge through into the mortal realm and start causing mayhem, but if the sorcerers can hold them back with invocations until the last possible moment I see nothing wrong with a screaming tide of Daemons engulfing the last desperate but until-that-point victorious defenders of a crucial objective. Imagine the looks of victory turn to horror on the faces of those poor guardsmen as reality tears open and a horde of screaming horrors from the warp engulf them at the eleventh hour...sounds awesome and very 'horror movie' to me :D

Melchor
09-06-2008, 13:16
Another problem with the 'last turn claiming' trick is the fact that ALL games use random game length now (slightly different rules than in 4th).

Yamagon
10-06-2008, 08:50
I think IMO, in this case, the daemon bomb should only be used to assist a charge from another unit, and to assist gaining an objective, not to get it itself.

Although you should never underestimate the power of a daemon bomb, you should never overestimate it to.

Murphey
10-06-2008, 08:54
IMO, calling what CSM can now do a "demon bomb" is to sully the awesome that 3rd ed chaos could do.

I've never seen it use effectively in 4th ed, and I think there are far better ways to spend ones points.

~Murphey

The_Outsider
10-06-2008, 14:17
Current chaos daemon bombing is mostly a case of "ha! My daemons tie up your devastators while my csm plasma down anything htey can see".

3rd ed daemon bombing was "oh look I survived until turn 2, GG".