PDA

View Full Version : How effective will BAAL Predators be in 5th?



Warheart
10-06-2008, 11:23
Title says it all, i was gonna buy a couple for my Blood Angels army, but wondersing if they'll be any good in 5th? I havent been able to get a hold of the new rules. What are you guys thoughts.

ehlijen
10-06-2008, 11:57
They'll be good. Overcharged engines will mean you sometimes get to shoot all weapons even if moving 6".

IronNerd
10-06-2008, 12:07
BAAL preds will still be able to chew up mounds and mounds of infantry. I would definitely still get some. The big change is that Assault Cannons no longer chew through heavy tanks like they used to, which only makes sense.

centy
10-06-2008, 12:43
They will be good still but you may need some anti tank aswell. The reanding rules changes will make them not so good at killing tanks.
Sorta nerf my landspeeders a bit aswell with the rending change.

==Me==
10-06-2008, 12:52
As stated before, overcharged engines will make Baals fast, so they can move 6" and fire all weapons. That's a huge benefit and will keep your Baals moving around firing everything, literally drenching the enemy in firepower. Lightly armored troops will be in quite the sticky situation if your Baals fire in their direction. You should take a pair, 1 is too few and 3 is freaky (plus you may have trouble walking around with 3 Baals). Plus you can add in a big meaty tank to go with them, like a Land Raider (rumored they can also move 6" and fire all weapons, also yikes)) or Vindicator (one shot is all you need). But you'll definitely want to pick up a pair of Baals if you don't already have your own, though people might give you funny looks if you do it in public.

I could go on.

Voleron
10-06-2008, 13:17
<Obligatory Jokes>

I'm guessing whomever named that tank, and moreover the BA Homeworld is giving themselves a right royal kicking right about now. If they haven't already done so.

Still, you'd need to have a right solid pair of Baals to justify coming from a planet named like that. ;)

TheDarkDuke
10-06-2008, 15:26
I'm guessing whomever named that tank, and moreover the BA Homeworld is giving themselves a right royal kicking right about now. If they haven't already done so.

Still, you'd need to have a right solid pair of Baals to justify coming from a planet named like that. ;)


I still don't get this joke as its "BAIL" not "BALL" but I guess some people need more reasons to make fun of SM's. ;)

==Me==
10-06-2008, 17:18
I'm guessing whomever named that tank, and moreover the BA Homeworld is giving themselves a right royal kicking right about now. If they haven't already done so.

Still, you'd need to have a right solid pair of Baals to justify coming from a planet named like that. ;)

Massive, company-wide Freudian slip?;)


I still don't get this joke as its "BAIL" not "BALL" but I guess some people need more reasons to make fun of SM's. ;)

We know how it's pronounced, but it doesn't make it any less hilarious.

Victomorga
10-06-2008, 17:28
I still don't get this joke as its "BAIL" not "BALL" but I guess some people need more reasons to make fun of SM's. ;)

where did you hear it spoken? I always thought it was pronounced "bah-ahl," first syllable like the sound a sheep makes, second syllable like al jazeera.

I'm throwing another vote in with the "yes take them" camp. they're solid anti-infantry, and the super-charged engine gets you in close for template sponson attacks.

EDIT: after thinking a moment, the pronunciation "bail" makes more sense, as it references the non-GW world.

boogle
10-06-2008, 17:32
2 Baal Predators and an anti Tank Devastator Squad would be my 3 HS choices, the rest of the AT coming from the Elites Section

Mojaco
10-06-2008, 17:37
They're still great at killing off tanks. I'd barely call the new rending rules a nerf, so just keep using them.

Half-breed
10-06-2008, 18:13
They're still great at killing off tanks. I'd barely call the new rending rules a nerf, so just keep using them.

Thatís right. With the new rules you are likely to glance a AV 14 when current rules give a penetration. This is because (To those who canít do maths.) Assault cannon getting a rending hit has already a value of 12 and to this is added the new rendings D3 (On average D6 gives you a 3,5.) you get 14,5. So with the souped engines Baal remain very scary tank.

Now only if BA would share its blueprints to rest of the marines.

Grimtuff
10-06-2008, 18:48
I still don't get this joke as its "BAIL" not "BALL" but I guess some people need more reasons to make fun of SM's. ;)

Erm, no. There's a long pronunciation on the A's. It's pronounced "B-aah-l"

Just like a Sheep. ;)

EvilMinion
10-06-2008, 21:50
Grimtuff is right it is pronounced ball, anyways if it moves twelve inches it can only fire one weapon (though most marine armies don't move much) and with rending to wound it will likley rend less.

Lord Inquisitor
10-06-2008, 22:09
It is apparently pronounced "ball" (http://www.answers.com/baal&r=67)with a longer "a" (click on the little speaker symbol next to the word to hear the pronounciation).

Then again, since when did GW pronounciation make any sense? Tyranids should by any right be pronounced TIE-rah-nids.

Anyway, Baal Predators...

They're still useful, being able to move 12" and fire one weapon is pretty useful, and heavy flamers aren't going to be used most of the time. 6" and fire flamers isn't bad compared with other vehicles available to the BA.

ehlijen
10-06-2008, 23:29
Thank the lords for my german speaking background that stops me from associating the ancient name of some sort of demon lord (I think) with a round inflatable sports instrument :D

centy
11-06-2008, 00:49
Have two will travel, if the rest of the army can't keep up then they are to slow and deservere to be sent to the um's.

Currently the baals work great for me as they move 12 most of the taime and the assault troops move the same.
My whole battle line moves 12 on the first turn.

Warheart
11-06-2008, 01:47
Well i seem to have lost my army list, but it was something like this.

Lemartes w/7 Death Company w/Jump packs

7 VAS w/ 3pwr weapons and 4 meltabombs.

10 assault marines w/pwrfist
10 assault marines w/ pwrfist

2-3 attack bikes with multi melta

2 Baal Pred. w/hvy bolters.

Think they'll balance the army out well?

Rioghan Murchadha
11-06-2008, 03:02
I still don't get this joke as its "BAIL" not "BALL" but I guess some people need more reasons to make fun of SM's. ;)

Stop taking pronounciation lessons from Diablo II :p

neXus6
11-06-2008, 03:05
Even in 4th ed where heavy flamers were defensive weapons people tented to choose heavy bolters instead.
Now its just a case of pillboxing with HB sponsons all the time I recon. :p

==Me==
11-06-2008, 05:21
Now only if BA would share its blueprints to rest of the marines.

That's just what us nerds need.

More blue Baals.

I'll be here all week:D

cailus
11-06-2008, 05:41
That's just what us nerds need.

More blue Baals.

I'll be here all week:D

Dang dude, you;ve got Baals on the mind! :D

SanguinaryDan
11-06-2008, 13:19
From what we've seen so far the Baal is the only Predator variant worth the HS slot. With the OCE allowing you to move 6" and still fire everything Baal's have a major mobility advantage over every other Predator. And with all CC hits going to rear armor staying mobile is really going to be important.

And while the Assault Cannons may have fewer rends against infantry (to wound instead of to hit) you'll still beat up tanks with the same efficiency. C'mon folks going from a 2+ to Glance a Land Raider to a 3+ is NOT a "nerf". And anyway you slice it throwing 12 dice at squads is going to force a lot of them to go to ground or get shredded. Gawd, I love suppressive fire.:D

Danny Internet
11-06-2008, 14:02
Like most tanks that rely on using more than 1 weapon, the Baal Predator won't be nearly as effective in 5th as it is in 4th. Sure, if it can remain stationary and maintain lanes of fire it will do just fine. If it has to move, well, you just paid a whole lot of points for an assault cannon.

king_mob
11-06-2008, 17:09
From what we've seen so far the Baal is the only Predator variant worth the HS slot. With the OCE allowing you to move 6" and still fire everything Baal's have a major mobility advantage over every other Predator.

You must declare the use of over-charged engines.

Therefore, they will only allow you to fire all weapons available on the Baal if you roll a 4-6, otherwise it's a normal, non-Fast tank.

Da Black Gobbo
11-06-2008, 17:14
Baal isn't english so Baahl is not only a daemon from Diablo II ;).

SanguinaryDan
12-06-2008, 02:37
You must declare the use of over-charged engines.

Therefore, they will only allow you to fire all weapons available on the Baal if you roll a 4-6, otherwise it's a normal, non-Fast tank.

So I can bring the Baal and have a 50% chance of being useful mobile firepower or a stock Pred and have a 100% chance of only ever using one gun if I move?:angel:

And I know I don't have to bring a Predator at all, but if I'm gonna...

Elios Harg
12-06-2008, 04:49
Well, let's see:
Predator Destructor w/ HBs and PMSB 10 shots (within 24") for anti-inf, some light anti-vehicle (autocannon)

Baal Predator w/ HBs and PMSB 12 shots (within 24") for anti-inf, some anti-tank (assault cannon) costs 35% more than the fully kitted destructor

Predator Annihilator w/ Lascannons 3 anti-tank shots costs 65% more

Devestators w/ 4 Heavy Bolters 12 anti-inf shots beyond 24" (18 within 24", 24 within 12"), can't move and shoot at all, costs 150% more, potential to split fire with combat squads

Devestators w/ 4 Lascannons 4 anti-tank shots, can't move and shoot at all, costs 230% more, potential to split fire with combat squads


So really, they all seem worth the slot to me, just depends on what your points budget allows and what role you need. The fact that I can field 3 destructors for roughly the price of a devestator squad is pretty darn nice. Even with annihilators, that's 2 for 1 compared to 4 las devs.

Comparing the destructor to the baal... you pay 35% more, you lose 1S on the main gun, but gain 2 shots and rending as well as the OCE. So yeah, baal is probably the best deal for Blood Angels, but I could see fielding the destructor if you had to fit something under 100 points into the army.

Znail
12-06-2008, 06:07
Well, let's see:
Predator Destructor w/ HBs and PMSB 10 shots (within 24") for anti-inf, some light anti-vehicle (autocannon)

Baal Predator w/ HBs and PMSB 12 shots (within 24") for anti-inf, some anti-tank (assault cannon) costs 35% more than the fully kitted destructor

Predator Annihilator w/ Lascannons 3 anti-tank shots costs 65% more

Devestators w/ 4 Heavy Bolters 12 anti-inf shots beyond 24" (18 within 24", 24 within 12"), can't move and shoot at all, costs 150% more, potential to split fire with combat squads

Devestators w/ 4 Lascannons 4 anti-tank shots, can't move and shoot at all, costs 230% more, potential to split fire with combat squads


So really, they all seem worth the slot to me, just depends on what your points budget allows and what role you need. The fact that I can field 3 destructors for roughly the price of a devestator squad is pretty darn nice. Even with annihilators, that's 2 for 1 compared to 4 las devs.

Comparing the destructor to the baal... you pay 35% more, you lose 1S on the main gun, but gain 2 shots and rending as well as the OCE. So yeah, baal is probably the best deal for Blood Angels, but I could see fielding the destructor if you had to fit something under 100 points into the army.
The sponsons are pretty expensive for BA so I consider it a better buy to not get them. Twin-linked lascannons cost about as much as the Baal and are better as anti-tank. Even the basic autocannon version is atleast very cheap, maybe add the stormbolter. It will make for pretty good movable cover in 5E.

Hmm, its not that obvious why the sponsons are a bit expensive. But consider that you only increase your firepower without increasing how much effort it takes to kill your army. So, its alot better to get two tanks instead of getting double the firepower on one tank. This is even more of an issue in 5E as if you got two tanks then you can move 6" and fire all weapons on both. Its also a problem that the more points you put into a unit the better target it becomes and your armies hardiness towards fire is determined by your weakest unit, thus having a juicy target is generaly bad.

GodofWarTx
12-06-2008, 06:08
The Baal predator and the Death Company are the only things remaining Blood Angel only withthe new marine codex coming out absorbing Honor Guard and Assault Veterans, so im going to field them to show that my guys used to be more than "red marines' :)

Occulto
12-06-2008, 06:36
The Baal predator and the Death Company are the only things remaining Blood Angel only withthe new marine codex coming out absorbing Honor Guard and Assault Veterans, so im going to field them to show that my guys used to be more than "red marines' :)

Furioso Dreads are no longer BA specific?

spagunk
13-06-2008, 20:04
Furioso Dreads are no longer BA specific?

I'm certain that was just a typo...(or would be a "Tyco" in the case of Ba ;) )

GodofWarTx
14-06-2008, 05:16
Furioso Dreads are no longer BA specific?

I was under the impression that the new ironclad dreadnaught will have superior CC abilities as well as survivability.