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inq.serge
10-06-2008, 13:17
Hi, Due to GW's "Request", I'm going to sculpt 5 minis in GW-style.

I'm going to sculpt:

1 Fimmir Noble *
1 Chaos Dwarf Lord
1 Blooddragon Lord
1 Druchii Noble
1 ????????????

I need help to decide the fifth model. Any suggestions?

I'm going to post pics of the whole process.

I haven't started yet, but I'm going to start sketching now.

'll be back with pics.

*I chose the models myself, don't believe that there will be any Fimmir soon, or at all.

Whitehorn
10-06-2008, 13:19
Zoat Shaman? :)

inq.serge
10-06-2008, 13:23
I think a zoat is too big, and I would like something more humanoid.

Braad
10-06-2008, 13:27
Orcs of course!

What is this "request", by the way?

inq.serge
10-06-2008, 14:01
Orcs sounds good, but I'm not sure. Orcs ARE very GW, but I'm still unsure. Maybe I should only do 4.

And the "Request"; it's more or less secret. (If the sculpting goes good, I *might* become a GW sculptor).

Neknoh
10-06-2008, 14:05
Chaos Lord, dressed in heavy stuff? I.e. lots of separate metal plates, furr, heavy cloth. Couple this with rather realistic weapons, a hatchet, a sword and perhaps some sort of small flail or morningstar

Magos Explorator
10-06-2008, 16:49
I'd suggest something for 40k, to show your capabilities for those ranges. Sounds dull, but how about a Space Marine? That'd show you can sculpt armour. Also, you could do something cool for one of the rarely-seen Chapters.

Bra'tac
10-06-2008, 16:52
Maybe you can sculpt a nice Delaque model since they never seem to get a new release.

A Delague leader running against a wall ''insert MATRIX bullet time''
shooting his two autopistols.:D

liamrob
10-06-2008, 17:17
Well what they look for is if you can sculpt certain details. Like the smoothness of a Space marines armour or the detail on the puffy bits of the empire!

Try to get different techniques in. Like the chaos dwarf could have a fur coat and the blood dragon lord could have smooth sharp edged armour plates like the black guard models from the DE range. One of the nobles could have quite a bit of facial detail showing.

It will really push you and 5 days!?!? I remember Seb Perbet spent 6 weeks on the Shokk Attack gun model!

dax
10-06-2008, 17:24
You need to do a human Barbarian or Marauder type piece basically lots of exposed flesh/muscle and little to no armour or clothing they want to see that you can sculpt anatomy correctly - an Orc may also work for this but they are not anatomically the same as a human

Partisan Rimmo
10-06-2008, 18:15
Do a really mutated human from the Realm of Chaos

Nexus
10-06-2008, 22:45
Looking at the Lahmia, it seems to me that you need to spend more time getting a smooth finish on your greens. What I can make of the idea, I like, but I think the execution needs more polish. Also, I reckon you'd be better making everything from scratch; the heads and sword look out of place and give the impression of being simply tacked on.

Also, the elf (?) seems to have a very long left arm. This might be less of a problem as his torso gains a bit more mass, however.

Xyon
10-06-2008, 23:28
nice work so far but am I the only one who kinda sees a mustache and fuzzy eyebrows on the lahmia?

inq.serge
11-06-2008, 09:21
Any tips on making smooth faces?

The blob on her cheek is nigh invisible to the human eye.

And yes Xyon, yes you are.

Extension
11-06-2008, 13:26
Well, i see them too :)

Nice work so far

Alltaken
11-06-2008, 13:58
good idea in making a lahmian, woman figures aren't gw gratest normally. You could try something nurgle also: a lot of anatomy and mutations.

inq.serge
11-06-2008, 14:59
What about a 3-up of a chaos marauder with lots of different armour types? It would however take ~27 times more GS.

winkypinky
11-06-2008, 21:07
mother of all hats....

LordKhaine
11-06-2008, 22:01
i do have to say that youve stepped over the "exaduration" line with the chaos dwarf hat, dont get me wrong, nice sculpt, just lower the size lol

always been a big hat fan, but the line is now a blurr to that hat lol

i like the lahmian :)

Xyon
12-06-2008, 05:08
Keep the hat! Build it bigger! give it smoke stacks! I think that monster hat is really cool.

inq.serge
12-06-2008, 14:46
Now they asked me to sculpt a copy of a GW miniature.

Wonder which I should sculpt? (I do not have many, so 1-on-1 is quite difficult.)

Nyarlathotep
12-06-2008, 21:54
No offence, but you have a long way to go before you are at GW quality. I think they would be more impressed if you spent more time getting one model look good than a load of rushed figures.
As has been pointed out the figures lack definition and shape. Detail is not important, just get the basics right.
Sorry to sound harsh, but practice and hard work go a long way.

inq.serge
13-06-2008, 09:41
Just wait 'till they're finished.

jimbobodoll
13-06-2008, 11:55
Just wait 'till they're finished.
Here's a suggestion for the model they would like to see you copy: the model that just one the "best most pwnest citadel miniature eva!" online web vote. If you can pull that off then surely thats kudos to you?

That final mini place still up for grabs? How about an actual decent art-work matching high elf model? You know, one that looks like the army book art rather than something completely different and fatter? You know like the current miniatures do?

inq.serge
13-06-2008, 13:43
I'm more or less sick, and stressed, so I think that only the Blooddragon is going to be finnished in time.

And 1-on-1; I think I'll chose the sitting skink from the 5ed salamander set. (The 5ed salamander set and the 5ed saurus champion are my favourite models. Maybe a 1-on-1 of the 5ed saurus champ?)

Plus 2 1-on-1 copies of heads/faces (1 5/6ed(?) gobbo face and 1 6ed marauder head).

I'd be happy if you all voted on this poll: http://www.coolminiornot.com/193314

Nyarlathotep
13-06-2008, 17:47
Just wait 'till they're finished.

Sorry, but it is blatantly obvious right now. the underlying anatomy is completely wrong and there are no sharp edges on any of the detail.
Dont take it the wrong way but you have a very long way to go.

Study anatomy, and study their current figures. If you think that yours can stand along side them in terms of quality you need to look closer.

Can you put up a picture of the figure that got GW interested? also, how did you go about letting them see your figures? who is best to send stuff to?

arch_inquisitor
13-06-2008, 18:08
You are getting there, but I am going to withhold judgment until I see more updates.

But what GW usually is looking for in a portfolio piece is how well you can do existing range models. For example they want to see a sculpt of a space marine or a brettonian or orc/ork. You get to do the fancy stuff later.

But just remember if it doesn't work out this time just keep applying every few months or so and keep practicing, even pros continuously practice.

inq.serge
13-06-2008, 21:05
I've started copying, and man, it's a heck lot easier to copy. I'll post the pics in 5 minutes or so.

And I found the address to send in the pics on the GW website.

Xyon
16-06-2008, 05:12
Nice skink so far, keep up the work. I'm interested in your progress.

Raka
16-06-2008, 23:26
I wonder, what exactly is your brief? Because you haven't quite said what you are meant to be doing, and it is hard to give feedback on that.

If this is a job application, then you doubly especially need to be certain that you are doing what they want :)

5 sculptures in 5 days is a very big task - intense with a lot of concentration. If at all possible, try to relax as you sculpt, and and in between sessions :)

I look foward to more progress!

Edit - is your skink the same size as the painted one? and the tricep on the right arm is (right now) slightly under-developed.

inq.serge
17-06-2008, 13:19
The task is to make a 1-on-1 copy.

And the skink is a 1-on-1 copy of the other skink.

(and no need of 5 in 5 days.)

agger
17-06-2008, 17:58
Nice to see that skink agian, I always liked it... isn't it from the salamander crew?

also... I can't remember where i picked this up, but i have heard that its a good idea to enter models that are able to be cast, so you migth want to keep that in mind...

inq.serge
17-06-2008, 21:51
Yes, it's from the sally crew. I love the 5ed sally + crew, One of my favourite unit of models.

And castability* is α and Ω, everyone knows that. (The Blooddragon has high castability, the lahmia hasn't, but the skink has highest.)


*I like making new words, It betterifies languages.

Nyarlathotep
17-06-2008, 22:21
Yes, it's from the sally crew. I love the 5ed sally + crew, One of my favourite unit of models.

And castability* is α and Ω, everyone knows that. (The Blooddragon has high castability, the lahmia hasn't, but the skink has highest.)


*I like making new words, It betterifies languages.

How do you measure how well figures can be cast? do you have any casting experience?

The skink looks alot better than the last figures, but still not GW standard. Keep at it youve obviously got potential but Im afraid it will be a while before your up to their standard.

Who are you in correspondence with in the studio?

IceSword
17-06-2008, 23:19
Last example is a VAST improvement. Looks like you doing the right thing concentrating on posture and scale/anatomy, you also need to work on keeping the putty nice and smooth.

Keep an eye on my sculpting plog (link on signature) I'm going to be adding some tutorials soon.

IceSword
17-06-2008, 23:29
Also I've just noticed, why is the green stuff all chalky and crumbly, whats that white stuff in it?

Braad
18-06-2008, 08:27
Aren't the five days over yet?

inq.serge
18-06-2008, 11:27
@B; Technically yes, but the project has been abandoned for "Project: Skinkhandler".

@Ice: No Idea! It gets quite flakey when I try to smooth it, (While it is next to dried GS parts, and it's wet of all the water). What should I do?
And It's not an improvement at all, I could always sculpt like that, I can however not understand why I didn't sculpt the other models that good?

IceSword
18-06-2008, 18:37
No idea what could cause that on the putty, maybe a lubricant you are using. Just make sure the putty is properly mixed up, nice and green.

The skink appears to be a big improvement on the other pics... it's a simple form without detail though.

Practice makes perfect ! Keep at it.

inq.serge
19-06-2008, 10:57
The only lubricant I use is water (But my water is kinda dirty, it contains old flakes of greenstuff, old flakes of steel epoxy (Especially the white greasy part), old flakes of copper epoxy, rust, some kind of oil, and an old coin who turned blackish after laying in the ground for a couple of years.(Maybe even a decade in the ground), greenstuff dust, dust, metal dust and terracotta dust).

Nyarlathotep
19-06-2008, 18:15
The only lubricant I use is water (But my water is kinda dirty, it contains old flakes of greenstuff, old flakes of steel epoxy (Especially the white greasy part), old flakes of copper epoxy, rust, some kind of oil, and an old coin who turned blackish after laying in the ground for a couple of years.(Maybe even a decade in the ground), greenstuff dust, dust, metal dust and terracotta dust).

And you cant work out why your greenstuff looks rough? Why dont you change the water??

liamrob
20-06-2008, 02:44
Serge, get a new container of water. I have little pots. Separate ones i bought 12 for $2. That way i can always have clean clean water. Otherwise your GS will look an odd colour and won't smooth out as well!

Once you get new water i'll be happy :p

inq.serge
20-06-2008, 20:08
I got a new container and clean water, so clean that I could drink it (If I hadn't dipped my GS covered fingers in it).

However, the change was minor, and mostly hygienic.

I however discovered an other more important thing;

If the greenstuff is wet too long (Which it mostly is in my case, since I dip my tools and fingers in water so that the greenstuff wouldn't stick), it gets whiter, and the surface gets "Micro-flakey", so that when I smooth it out, it gets all flaky (like the lamhia).

What should I do?

biggreengribbly
20-06-2008, 20:49
Use less water?

Use a different lubricant?

Find some way to lower the ambient temperature? I've found the warmer it is, the stickier my Greenstuff gets and vice versa, (At the height of summer and the depth of winter, it's damn near impossible to work with). And if your greenstuff isn't sticky, you won't have to oversaturate it with water, or whatever other lubricant you may choose to try.

Vary the ratios of blue and yellowto see i you can achieve a less sticky mix, for the same reasons as above.

Or, do the unhygeinic and uncivilised thing I do and lubricate your tools by sticking them in your gob instead. Avoids oversaturation of lubricant (which seems to be your problem) and I certainly never have any issues of my greenstuff going 'flaky', nor does it stick to me or the tools either.

inq.serge
20-06-2008, 21:20
You do know that Greenstuff is poisonous?

Nyarlathotep
20-06-2008, 21:41
I got a new container and clean water, so clean that I could drink it (If I hadn't dipped my GS covered fingers in it).

However, the change was minor, and mostly hygienic.

I however discovered an other more important thing;

If the greenstuff is wet too long (Which it mostly is in my case, since I dip my tools and fingers in water so that the greenstuff wouldn't stick), it gets whiter, and the surface gets "Micro-flakey", so that when I smooth it out, it gets all flaky (like the lamhia).

What should I do?

Sorry mate, but how can you expect to work for GW when you are obviously very new to this?
GS is poisonous, but it probably isnt any worse for you than walking down a busy road and breathing.

dan1986
20-06-2008, 23:09
Nyarlathotep are you always that rude? Although i have to agree with your last comment, you are obviously new to this serge, but don't let that put you off, just keep practicing, you obviously have some talent, the skink is looking really good. I just think you were a bit over ambitious to start with, just keep copying models and maybe produce some of your own varients of races to prove you can get the anatomy to look like it belongs in the GW range, then give it a go at getting a job with them.

Keep practicing buddy, you do have talent ;)

Taarnak
20-06-2008, 23:12
Kneadatite (GS) is non-toxic.

However, some people will be sensitive to it, just like many other non-toxic products.

As to the flakiness, I will second this: Try another lubricant.

Get some lip balm and try that in very small amounts.

~Eric

Nyarlathotep
21-06-2008, 10:57
Nyarlathotep are you always that rude? Although i have to agree with your last comment, you are obviously new to this serge, but don't let that put you off, just keep practicing, you obviously have some talent, the skink is looking really good. I just think you were a bit over ambitious to start with, just keep copying models and maybe produce some of your own varients of races to prove you can get the anatomy to look like it belongs in the GW range, then give it a go at getting a job with them.

Keep practicing buddy, you do have talent ;)

Im not being rude, im being honest. People seem to say everything is brilliant on forums and then people get offended when one person says it isn't.

My comment was based on the fact that the OP said he had been asked to make models for GW as test pieces and he may have a job on the design team if they went well.

Then he said they have asked him to copy a model.

He also avoids any questions about who he is in contact with a GW.

Im not saying he doesnt have talent. Im just saying he has a long way to go.

IceSword
21-06-2008, 11:50
Nyarlathotep is just stating the obvious. This is only the internet though, it's beyond me why anyone gets up upset at posts.

Anyway back to the sculpting, anymore pics to show us serge? If you want to be a sculpter you've got to be sculpting every second day at least !

Forget the GW brief here's on from me, sculpt a wraith/ghost. This one is easy, the hard part is getting 'character' into the flow of the robes.

inq.serge
21-06-2008, 13:12
I'm sculpting and training at sculpting everyday.

And what about having some kind of sponge (Or the grey things from blisters), which you keep wet, and just draw your stuff against it, making it moist, but not to wet?

And I got in contact with GW through their website, on their Contact site, anyone who can read small black texts on white backgrounds can find it, it's not that difficult. http://uk.games-workshop.com/careers/contact/1/ Find the rest by yourself!

One major problem it's difficult to try to sculpt in the GW style when "Impressionism/Neo-Classicism"-hybrid feels more natural.

Layne in Spayne
21-06-2008, 13:45
If you're only using water, then I'd suggest it's just too much of the stuff. To look at the colour, the mix is OK. It's weird : seems lots of people are having difficlutties with getting gs smooth, and with blending new gs with cured stuff. I've never had trouble with either, and I've only ever used water, and not much of it either. So that's what I suggest. Water OK, use less.

Good luck with it, bloke, keep practising.

Nyarlathotep
21-06-2008, 14:20
I'm sculpting and training at sculpting everyday.

And what about having some kind of sponge (Or the grey things from blisters), which you keep wet, and just draw your stuff against it, making it moist, but not to wet?

And I got in contact with GW through their website, on their Contact site, anyone who can read small black texts on white backgrounds can find it, it's not that difficult. http://uk.games-workshop.com/careers/contact/1/ Find the rest by yourself!

One major problem it's difficult to try to sculpt in the GW style when "Impressionism/Neo-Classicism"-hybrid feels more natural.

So you have been speaking to Anne, the Studio HR?

HiveTrygon
21-06-2008, 16:24
I have to say that water should not do that either. When you talk about "polishing" I am asumeing you are using some type of solvent to make you gs smooth. That color green is not natural. I can get GS so smooth with just water that it looks like glass. First picture. Now the second is a mix of green with apoxie sculpt. As you can see here, still smooth, no flakes and yet a darker green. The third is apoxie sculpt. Still smooth and no green or flakes. This is all done with water. I use to much at times and still no problems. I am 99.9% sure you need to quit using some solvent on your base "polish" step. If you want to learn I'm willing to help you but I need to know the exact product, mixes, and solvents you use on every single step.

inq.serge
21-06-2008, 17:49
I don't use any solvent, I just use a file and file down to make it smoother, (But it usually get a bit scratched).

I use lots of water, and I make the "Flesh", file down to make it smoother, and "in shape", and then start to add outer layers and detail.

I try to make as smooth as possible using fingers when possible, and small tools otherwise. Amongst my tools, I have a flattened needle.

I then scrape off dried uneven details/Parts of details.

SonofUltramar
21-06-2008, 20:13
So you have been speaking to Anne, the Studio HR?

Granted i've been out of the loop for a bit but i'm pretty sure Cathy was still head of HR?

As for the sculpts some of your other stuff seems ok but I think your best to try your hand at sculpting a basic trooper from each of the armies to get the feel for them and to show what you can do. I know people who applied for the Eavy Metal team and never got it because their portfolio was not diverse enough, i.e. majority one game system, although one from my local GW did make it many years ago;)

HiveTrygon
21-06-2008, 20:35
I don't use any solvent, I just use a file and file down to make it smoother, (But it usually get a bit scratched).

I use lots of water, and I make the "Flesh", file down to make it smoother, and "in shape", and then start to add outer layers and detail.

I try to make as smooth as possible using fingers when possible, and small tools otherwise. Amongst my tools, I have a flattened needle.

I then scrape off dried uneven details/Parts of details.

Ok then, we are getting somewhere. Files and green stuff do not mix very well. You are better off taking the edge of a exacto knife and turning it at about 35% and scraping the miniature. This will smooth it out and not leave any of that fine tearing. It's small to the eye but the file rips the surface and makes it very easy to catch imperfections and exagerate them.

I recommend using your fingers with plenty of water and lightly rub the miniature then let your armature and base putty sit. Do not touch it. It will be plenty smooth to work on. Then when you start details try and be less forceful with the GS. That may be the reason your using to much water. If you press real hard all in one shot it's going to stick unless you use lots and lots of water. Instead press lightly 5-10 times until you get the same effect.

I'm not trying to argue with you only help you I had to learn the hard way and never got help from anyone. The only bit of advice I ever got was from Chirs Fitzpatrick, a great guy, and it was the scrape method. I no longer need it but in the start it helped me loads.

inq.serge
21-06-2008, 23:08
Do you think that those small rubber-tip brushes are good substitutes for fingers in places where fingers cant reach?

HiveTrygon
22-06-2008, 01:28
Do you think that those small rubber-tip brushes are good substitutes for fingers in places where fingers cant reach?

Yes they work well, I prefer a tool that is spoon shaped to reach those hard to get to spots. I tap all the finger prints out with it. This is the only picture I have of that tool. It works very well.

I tend to like metal tools better than the rubber tips but they do works for me in certain applications, such as drapery.

The tool is slightly convex one way and concave the other. You can press lightly all over the surface and get all those fingerprints out with it. If you do this prior to sculpting details by the time you work the details in it will be perfectly smooth.

If you have any other questions at all feel free to ask me. I'll also include a picture I did of a chaos dwarf green so you can see how smooth the beard and boots are. The other dwarf is an old conversion. These are done with that tool as well.

inq.serge
22-06-2008, 10:12
Thanks.

I sculpted yesterday, with near no water, and it worked much better then normal.

However, any tips on how to smooth out faces after making details?
(My sculpted faces look a bit like those I draw, who look like concept-sketches, with all extra lines and all.)

(And I have quite similar tools:

*1 GW sculpt-tool
*1 Brass rod, with one more convex end, and one more spoon-like end.
*1 small stick, with a smaller spoon-like ended brass-rod, and one small metal-wire loop in the other end.
*1 Stick with a needle in one end and a needle which I have hammered into a spoon-like shape in the end at the other end.)

IceSword
22-06-2008, 11:28
Sculpting tool supplier :

http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/tools.htm

Nexus
22-06-2008, 12:50
To smooth out faces (or, indeed, anything else), get your shapes into place and then go back and gently reinforce them, working out the extra lines.

So long as your tools are pretty smooth, you should be able to do this without any real difficulty. You might want to wait while the putty firms up a bit, so the details you've already got in place are a bit more resilient to any deformation caused by your later prodding and smoothing. Another alternative is to try not to introduce the extra marks in the first place, perhaps with more forward planning or a novel approach to making the facial shapes.

Reading through this thread again, I think there might be something in prefacing any sculpting tips with 'tip 1: Grow a thick skin'.

HiveTrygon
22-06-2008, 14:47
To smooth out faces (or, indeed, anything else), get your shapes into place and then go back and gently reinforce them, working out the extra lines.

So long as your tools are pretty smooth, you should be able to do this without any real difficulty. You might want to wait while the putty firms up a bit, so the details you've already got in place are a bit more resilient to any deformation caused by your later prodding and smoothing. Another alternative is to try not to introduce the extra marks in the first place, perhaps with more forward planning or a novel approach to making the facial shapes.

Reading through this thread again, I think there might be something in prefacing any sculpting tips with 'tip 1: Grow a thick skin'.

Those are good tips but another a lot of people do not share are stiff brushes. You can take a stiff brush and lightly drag over the face a few times and it will soften the features as well as smooth it out. ;)

Can we see some of the new stuff. I'd love to see improvements and find out what is working for you, and what is not. I also want to improve. :o

inq.serge
22-06-2008, 17:40
I made some test training-models, inq.scale, (WIP) the faces are very smooth.

I bought knife set http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/tools.htm#sculpting today for 5.3 at my local store. It's quite difficult to use to scrape, but it was good for sculpting.

I'll post the pics of the inq.models at an other thread, when they are finnished. (Progress so far: Familiar: Started. San-Psy/Inq.Aco; Almost finished. Inq.Aco; just started, Face almost finished. Ro-Tr; Only armature. Inq; Halfway through.)

HiveTrygon
22-06-2008, 17:56
Ok, not sure which knife set you bought but I highly recommend these tools.
http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/tools.htm#sculpting
I use those 2 for about 90% of all my sculpts. I know some things might seem expensive but they last a lifetime if you take care of them. Try and prevent putty from building up on them and if it does use a very high grit, very, very small abrasive sand paper to clean them. Do not file them it leaves marks in you tools, the sand paper removes it with the least damage to your tools.

Oh and the tools are the 4th picture down
Double Tool set
Price:4.00
5.87 EUR - 7.17 $US

inq.serge
22-06-2008, 18:08
I bought;

Craft knife kit
Price: 6.00


3 knife handles with 13 assorted blades.

I use to file/use a "sharpening stone/block" to sharpen my tools. Is that bad?

And there's one thing I forgot to ask.

When I put GS on GS that already has dried, and try to smooth it out and make it thin, so that there wouldn't be any "Lines" where you can see the difference of new and old, It gets flatter, and flatter, and finally, it gets like small holes, gets flaky and breaks, all thorn apart, even if it's wet. (*Apology for long sentence*) What should I do to avoid it?

HiveTrygon
22-06-2008, 18:20
I bought;

Craft knife kit
Price: 6.00


3 knife handles with 13 assorted blades.

I use to file/use a "sharpening stone/block" to sharpen my tools. Is that bad?

And there's one thing I forgot to ask.

When I put GS on GS that already has dried, and try to smooth it out and make it thin, so that there wouldn't be any "Lines" where you can see the difference of new and old, It gets flatter, and flatter, and finally, it gets like small holes, gets flaky and breaks, all thorn apart, even if it's wet. (*Apology for long sentence*) What should I do to avoid it?
Ok, now we are getting even better info. I highly recommend you make your armature much thinner than you need. If you are sculpting say clothes over a actual leg beefed out to the exact proportion you are going to have a lot of trouble. You need to make that leg thinner so the clothing can make up the thickness of the leg and you can still sculpt the detail with ought ripping through the layer.

If you are adding a layer to an existing layer you need to press it on and smooth it out flat as possible on the edge of the glob of putty. Work from the edge to the inside. I take to spoon tool I've told you about many times and grab just the smallest edge and pull it onto the old hard putty. I smear it off and do that all the way around. This sometimes leaves a ridge where the putty is slightly higher. I take that same tool and lightly feather that ring all the way around into the new putty. Be gentle or you will get those flakes at the edge like you are mentioning. Use little water as well or it will get under the new glob and old putty and prevent it from sticking and you can also get those flakes. Hope this helps you. ;)