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Nazguire
22-04-2005, 03:20
So apart from the Imperials, what are the Titans or their equivalent used by the other races/factions e.g. Chaos or Eldar

I know of the Corrupted Warhound and the Revenant Titan but what other machines of mass mass MASS destruction are used in the 40k universe?

Morgan Keyes
22-04-2005, 04:12
With the Eldar you have the Phantom and the Warlock (psi-weapons), and their scout titan, the Revenant. These units use pulsar lances (pulse lasers), D-Cannon, Vibro-Cannon, Power Fists (with built-in shuriken cannons), Multi-Launchers (MRLs), and Scatter Lasers. Instead of Void Shields they use Holo-Fields.

Orks have various flavours of Gargants, cobbled together amalagamations of armour, weapons, ICE engines, and surprisingly inventive MekBoy tech. Big cannons along with Ork weapons like Zzap Guns and Lifta-Droppas.

Chaos has various corrupted Titans, as well as seriously corrupted/possessed units like the Banelord (Khorne-corrupted Warlord).

Tau use some of the space-based units like the Manta Missile "Destroyer" to fulfill the Titan role

Khaine's Messenger
22-04-2005, 06:05
So apart from the Imperials, what are the Titans or their equivalent used by the other races/factions e.g. Chaos or Eldar

Everyone in the galaxy uses giant walkers of some description as their Titan-equivalents (although for Orks that may be a generous description, as some Gargants look more like enormous and poorly-built tracked vehicles) except for the Tau, who prefer to use heavy bombers in conjunction with general air superiority for similar purposes (although to be quite frank, referring to this as a "Titan-equivalent" is silly and seems, to me, to stem from the "need" for every race to have a "Titan-equivalent"....I'm quite thankful that the Tau got this instead of an "oober Gundam!!!!" though. This is one of the few things I gleefully salute GW for doing....).

Ork Titans are called Gargants (or variations thereof...Stompas, Steam Gargants, Great Gargants, Mekboy Gargants...) and are basically barely mobile mound-shaped weapon platforms; the principles of Ork Kulture dictates that these vehicles be built as effigies of the Ork Godz. Eldar Titans might be leftover weapon concepts from the War in Heaven (otherwise, I see no real need for them), and are, like Imperial Titans, crewed by a special organized subset of the society that builds them. Tyranids use so-called "Bio Titans" which are, as it sounds, just Really Big Bugs. Most of them seem to just be enormous cockroaches, with few "bipedal" Bio Titans in the genes. On the other hand, this is not to say that Tyranids cannot counter Titans without Bio Titans...the sheer press of Tyranid corpses can incapacitate even Titans.

DantesInferno
22-04-2005, 06:54
The Necrons also don't appear to utilise any walker titan-equivalents. Although the true military grade Necrontyr hardware hasn't been rolled out yet, the Necron list in Epic contains two uber-units, neither of which are humanoid (the Abattoir and the Aenoic Orb).

Inquisitor Engel
22-04-2005, 07:02
the Aenoic Orb
I think any race sporting a shrunken star that can basically fire a solar flare at anything it likes, doesn't really NEED a Titan. :p

I think once the Tau start encountering Titans in real numbers, especially Eldar and Imperial Titans, which have void shields, they'll develop their own version. Thusfar the only Titan I can see them encountering on a regular basis is the Bio-Titan, and a suitably large explosive can take care of that... (Scant few were used in the Damocles Gulf, and I think the Tau handled them fairly well)

Morgan Keyes
22-04-2005, 14:48
I think any race sporting a shrunken star that can basically fire a solar flare at anything it likes, doesn't really NEED a Titan. :p

I think once the Tau start encountering Titans in real numbers, especially Eldar and Imperial Titans, which have void shields, they'll develop their own version. Thusfar the only Titan I can see them encountering on a regular basis is the Bio-Titan, and a suitably large explosive can take care of that... (Scant few were used in the Damocles Gulf, and I think the Tau handled them fairly well)

Well the Tau already have something on the Titan/Praetorian -scale with the Manta. And they have their own equivilant to Void Shield and Power Fields with their Deflector Shields (see BFG: Armada and the Epic Tau playtest PDF (http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/assets/pdf/vault/tau_4_1.pdf)). Two titan-killer scale railcannons and tracer missiles, two heavy ion phalanxes, multipule LB burst cannons, and seeker missiles, plus able to carry 8 squad-equivilants of troops and 4 Hammerheads it's carrying a respectable amount of punch for a race only just coming into conflict with groups using units like Titans or Gargants.

And not that the Epic:Armageddon Tau really need something on a Titan's level given the firepower of some of their newest super-heavies and attack aircraft.

Puffin Magician
22-04-2005, 15:23
I think once the Tau start encountering Titans in real numbers, especially Eldar and Imperial Titans, which have void shields, they'll develop their own version.
The Tau developed Whitesharks and the Moray to tackle Titans, a Tigershark armed with Railguns and a smaller attack version of the Manta respectively.

Most titans are unable to accurately respond to aircraft attacks [except the Imperator and Warmonger], so the Tau have an advantage with their deadly anti-titan airstrikes. I doubt they'll give up such an advantage and start developing slow, easily-targettable walkers.

The Squats developed the Cyclops to deal with the Ork Gargants that assaulted their worlds and it is very effective at destroying medium titans with it's Hellfury Cannon. With it's 6 structure points and 5 void shields, it's well within the classification of Titan-scale vehicles [costs more than a Reaver].

The Judge
22-04-2005, 19:04
What about the Ordinatus and Capitol Imperialis - not necessarily other races, but traitor guard units could taken control of them easier than a Titan, such as in Iron hands the novel. Those things are badass - land-based Nova cannon!

Morgan Keyes
22-04-2005, 20:14
What about the Ordinatus and Capitol Imperialis - not necessarily other races, but traitor guard units could taken control of them easier than a Titan, such as in Iron hands the novel. Those things are badass - land-based Nova cannon!


Ahh! Well if we want to talk about Praetorian-class vehicles...

Imperium:

-Leviathan: mobile regimental command post which can carry a company of Guard (most cases, the regimental commander's Life Company, a personal bodyguard force). Also has a battlecannon, 6 las-cannons, numerous bolters, and the Doomsdays bombardment cannon. 4 Void Shields.

-Capitol Imperialis: Larger then the Leviathan, but more a mobile fortress then a command unit. Carrying 2 companies of Guard, it dwarfs all but Imperator-class Titans. Armed either with a Behemoth Cannon (bombardment) or a Volcano Cannon, 6 plasma guns, and numberous bolter emplacements. 6 Void Shields.

-Hellbore: Really big tunneler, carrying a company of Guard.

Squats:

-Land Train: Massive land crawler towing a host of specialist cars.

-Cyclops: Titan-busting Hellfury Cannon, battlecannons, Melta-Cannons, and six Doomstorm Missiles.

-Colossus: Doomsdays bombardment cannons, plasma missiles, battlecannons, bolters and other armament. Notable in that it has a VTOL spotter aircraft.

-Behemoth: Interesting in that the main armament is actually in a turret as opposed to being in a limited traverse hull-mount. In this case it is a powerful railgun.

-Hellworm: a burrowing version of the Land Train.

Now some of these were from official canon, and others the creations of the folks over in NetEpic. Frankly, I forget at times which are which. There's a host more for all the sides in the Super-Heavy and Praetorian classes, though I think most are group creations. Good creations that follow the feel of the faction, but still outside creations.

Nazguire
23-04-2005, 01:18
Can someone give me more information on this mythical Aeonic Orb and the Abbatoir? From what I can work out the Aeonic Orb seems to be just a sun capable of obliterating whatever it fires at, even worse than the Pylon. And what does the Abbatoir do exactly. Judging from the name it seems to be something that is used to prepare or harvest things, I'm guessing human life force?

DantesInferno
23-04-2005, 01:30
Here you go, from the free stuff on the Epic website:


Abattoir
In the ancient days, when the power of the Cítan dominated the Galaxy, the servants of the Star Gods raised gigantic temples in their honor. In these places of darkest nightmare, horrific sacrifices were performed to feed the endless desire of the Cítan.

In time, sacrifices could not be brought to the Temples fast enough to sate the Cítanís evil hunger for suffering and so they used their power and the technology of their servants to transform the Temples into gargantuan engines of destruction.

During the final wars, before the Necronís long slumber, the Eldar called these terrifying constructs "World Harvesters". Since their recent appearance, the Imperium has given them a new name: The Abattoir.

Massive beyond belief, these structures are not equipped to "Phase". Instead, they must be transported to the world whose population they are to harvest by the Necron fleet. The ships simply glide into orbit, and drop them onto the world to let them perform their task.

The Abattoirís weapons are similar in function to the gauss weapons of the other Necron, but vastly more powerful. These "Harvesters", which are born on tentacle-like arms deployed from the capacitor pyramids, not only rip their victims apart at the molecular level, but also are able to absorb and store the terror and agony of their victimís death. These monstrous energies are used to feed the Cítan, or sustain them in times when fresh victims are in short supply.

Additionally, the Abattoir is able to drop the scarabs that it creates to help maintain its systems. These scarabs swarm out to dispatch foes and assist in the harvest.



∆onic Orb
Created long ago as an expression of ultimate power, the ∆onic Orb is the epitome of Necron technology and a testament to the might of the C'tan.

In essence, the orb is a fragment of a star, contained within a necrodermis sheath, and stabilized the incredible power of Necron magnetic technology. This containment system, which gives the orb its primary power source, is mounted on a massive skimming platform that gives the orb its mobility. Rare even at the zenith of the Necron Empire, the ∆onic Orb is probably the rarest Necron weapon in modern times. Legend has it that the C'tan were required to destroy an entire star to create even one. When one is seen, it is almost always to eliminate enemy Titans.

Its "weapon systems" are both simple and powerful. The "Solar Flare" is generated by an adjustment of the containment field, which focuses a concentrated plume of plasma generated by the stellar fragment into a high velocity bolt. So powerful is the containment Beam that the plasma suffers absolutely no loss of heat, or velocity. This allows the plasma to cut through virtually any material effortlessly. Reports from the few sightings of the Orbs indicate that a single hit is capable of inflicting significant damage on unshielded Battle Titans, and even shielded Titans suffer terrible damage should they be hit by both Solar Flares that they Orb is capable of projecting. However, forming the containment beam is so energy intensive, that the Orb seems to require significant periods of time to recover from firing.

The final weapon is similar in concept to the Solar Flare, but less energetic, and thus less powerful. A much weaker containment beam is used to guide a mass of plasma to a target, which results in the plasma loosing heat at an incredible rate. By the time it reaches its target, its effects while powerful, do not begin to compare to the Solar Flare. The swift loss of heat also limits the effective range of the weapon significantly. On the other hand, the explosive force, and radiation is quite sufficient to create havoc amongst its victims.

And aren't we all lucky that GW didn't give in to the tempation to make the Aenoic Orb a big humanoid walker? You know someone out there wanted to.

Nazguire
23-04-2005, 01:54
Here you go, from the free stuff on the Epic website:




And aren't we all lucky that GW didn't give in to the tempation to make the Aenoic Orb a big humanoid walker? You know someone out there wanted to.


I was actually picturing a giant Matrix-esque squidly thingy

notdakuningist
23-04-2005, 02:00
"Orks have various flavours of Gargants, cobbled together amalagamations of armour, weapons, ICE engines, and surprisingly inventive MekBoy tech. Big cannons along with Ork weapons like Zzap Guns and Lifta-Droppas."

Ice engines eh?
internal combustion engine engines?
sorry I have to deal with acronyms all the time and it always amuses me when something like that is said:-)
anywhooo
don't forget the tyranid bio titans or the different chaos variants.

Morgan Keyes
23-04-2005, 03:16
"Orks have various flavours of Gargants, cobbled together amalagamations of armour, weapons, ICE engines, and surprisingly inventive MekBoy tech. Big cannons along with Ork weapons like Zzap Guns and Lifta-Droppas."

Ice engines eh?
internal combustion engine engines?
sorry I have to deal with acronyms all the time and it always amuses me when something like that is said:-)
anywhooo
don't forget the tyranid bio titans or the different chaos variants.

Yes, my bad. Internal Combustion Engines. I'm Old Army and an Ole Sarge so acronyms come to me as second nature.

Marsekay
23-04-2005, 03:39
I always read ICE as "In Car Entertainment"

I was also confused, i had visions of engine rooms decked out with subs, amps and PS2's.

Flame Boy
23-04-2005, 17:12
I agree that a giant Necron construct like the Tomb Spyder might have been interesting, but it seems Larger-scale Necron constructs sound like they are just big formless chunks of metal (Monolith, Pylon, etc)

The Judge
23-04-2005, 21:35
Obelisk of Light kinda things...

I imagined the Aeonic Orb to be a massive Monolith - and the Abattoir, well, kinda the same, just without the tentacles...

If this Abattoir is so big it cannot phase, how do the Necron starships do it? Or do they use a different method? Excuse the lack of Necron BFG knowledge.

Talkie Toaster
24-04-2005, 15:14
Necron ships don't teleport, they seem to be able to accelerate over the speed of light, so you can't actually see them flying across the galaxy at obscene speeds, which makes it look like teleporting.

On the subject of the harvester, how does it store fear and terror physically (as opposed to the warp currents of such emotions)? Presumably it could store the brainwave patterns raised by such emotions, but in that case why don't the C'Tan simply have some kind of generator hooked up to replicate it?

notdakuningist
25-04-2005, 08:27
"Yes, my bad. Internal Combustion Engines. I'm Old Army and an Ole Sarge so acronyms come to me as second nature."

Heard that man, I just kinda became an acronym nazi the same way. Whenever I hear someone refer to the TAG (The the adjutant general???) I always kinda cringe.:-)

As far as super heavies go the ones I know about are...
Imperial-
Leviathan (ironically enough the original fluff has these being built by the squats.)
Capitol imperialis
Gorgon
baneblade
stormshadow
Knights of different configurations
Reaver
Warlord
Warhound
Imperator
Squats_
overlord air ship
land train
Goliath?
Cyclops
Orks-
Mekboy gargants
steam gargants
stompas
supa stompas
battle fortresses
Great gargants
mega gargants
blasta gargants
wierdboy towers
Eldar-
Revenant
Warlock
??
Chaos-
Banelord
khorne lord of battle
all of the daemon primarchs
various corrupted imperial titans
Tau-
Manta
Tyranids-
hierophant
heirduole
dominatrix
Sorry but nothing else springs to mind right now..

Sepheroph
25-04-2005, 09:22
The Eldar titans aren't crewed, they are piloted by a single...pilot...warlocks are piloted by warlocks (funny that) and phantoms and revanants are just piloted by normal eldar (those that have followed the particular path). The eldar also had a few different knight titans.

The Tau would never create titans (in my opinion) as it would give one person enough power to make a significant stand against the ways of their people, ie. rebel. It is the same reason why they don't make a crisis suit for every single one of their warriors.

Sai-Lauren
28-04-2005, 15:04
The Eldar titans aren't crewed, they are piloted by a single...pilot...warlocks are piloted by warlocks (funny that) and phantoms and revanants are just piloted by normal eldar (those that have followed the particular path). The eldar also had a few different knight titans.

The Tau would never create titans (in my opinion) as it would give one person enough power to make a significant stand against the ways of their people, ie. rebel. It is the same reason why they don't make a crisis suit for every single one of their warriors.

Knights have a single pilot, as do Revenant scouts (at least according to FW's model;)).
Old fluff (1st edition epic and AFAIK not rescinded) had phantoms with a crew of 4 - linked to the titans own spirit stone (and each other) with a spirit stone embedded in their own foreheads. But in those days, Warlords and Reavers only had a crew of 4 (princeps and left arm, right arm and carapace weapon moderatii), and Warhounds were single pilot - usually the loners and mavericks of the legion - as well.

Eldar super-heavies are things like the cobra, scorpion, the tempest and storm serpent, and the vampire raider.


It is the same reason why they don't make a crisis suit for every single one of their warriors
More likely that they can't actually produce enough to have one for each fire warrior. Besides, the first rule of war is that you can't win if you havn't got infantry willing to fight and die to hold and take ground - air superiority, super-accurate artillery support and all the armoured vehicles you can muster means nothing without the ground pounders.

Morgan Keyes
28-04-2005, 15:30
The Eldar titans aren't crewed, they are piloted by a single...pilot...warlocks are piloted by warlocks (funny that) and phantoms and revanants are just piloted by normal eldar (those that have followed the particular path). The eldar also had a few different knight titans.

The Tau would never create titans (in my opinion) as it would give one person enough power to make a significant stand against the ways of their people, ie. rebel. It is the same reason why they don't make a crisis suit for every single one of their warriors.


Sorry but the big Eldar Titans, Phantom and Warlock, have never been single pilot machines. And from the current Epic: Apocolypse - Stormwind:


Eldar births are rare, and new generations emerge only
ever few hundred years, so every child is cherished in a
manner other, younger races find hard to understand.
Most revered of all are the rare occurrences of twin, or
even triple births. Such sets of siblings are considered
fated by the Eldar, and invariably find positions of great
power within Eldar society. Many of these twins and
triplets form crews for the Eldar Titans, where the natural
emotional bonds between siblings, the Eldarís latent
psychic powers and the special relationship between
pilot, machine and spirit stones contained within
combine to create a mastery of control few amongst even
the Eldar could hope to achieve. Most sorrowful, yet most
skilled, of all are those Eldar who have lost their kin to the
depredations of a violent galaxy. These mourning Eldar
often inter the spirit stones of their dead brothers and
sisters within the wraithbone shell of a Titan and then
take to the machine themselves, seldom emerging,
preferring instead to remain within the Titan where they
can yet commune with their lost siblings.

As for other Eldar super-heavies:

-Scorpion: dual-pulse laser heavy tank (revamped Tempest)
-Cobra: D-cannon armed super-heavy
-Storm Serpent: Mobile wraithgate
-Void Spinner: Super-heavy artillery unit
-Vampire Raider: Eldar dropship
-Vampire Hunter: the Raider forgoing transport capacity for heavy gunship capability

DantesInferno
28-04-2005, 15:30
More likely that they can't actually produce enough to have one for each fire warrior. Besides, the first rule of war is that you can't win if you havn't got infantry willing to fight and die to hold and take ground - air superiority, super-accurate artillery support and all the armoured vehicles you can muster means nothing without the ground pounders.

Surprisingly enough, the Tau actually do limit battlesuit production. More specifically, the Ethereals do (fearful of a powerful Fire Caste, probably).


Despite the Tau's prodigious industrial capacity there are never enough battlesuits to please the Shas'ar'tol. The Ethereal caste is very aware of the trust that is implicit in the issuing of a battlesuit to a warrior. The battlesuit represents considerable power, and in wielding that power, warriors have been known to forget the greater good and become obsessed with their own needs and desires. The example of O'shovah is an extreme one, but milder cases of battlesuit neurosis are more common than is realised. It is for this reason that the Ethereal caste limits the supply of battlesuits to ensure they are only issued to those who have proven themselves worthy.

From here: http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/battlesuit%2Dconfigurations/

Lord Osiris
05-11-2006, 13:15
I am building a Necron Abattoir in 40k scale. I am using the "sketch" on the specialist games site as my reference. I think that I have the upper portion about built, ready for a warm day to spray paint outside. I still need to create 100 tentacles (25 in each corner). In general, it is 2 feet by 2 feet square, and maybe 15-18 inches tall (with out the base). It will be flying/hovering, so it'll probably be another 4-6 taller, on the base.

When ever I can make my own post, I will show pictures. I don't want to break any rules about "stealing" someone else's post.

Colonial Rifle
07-11-2006, 07:07
Remember the Dark Eldar everyone! ;) Their latest draft Epic lists give them a few titan-size creations, including enormous Talos-style skimmers and enslaved Warp monsters.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
07-11-2006, 07:39
I am building a Necron Abattoir in 40k scale. I am using the "sketch" on the specialist games site as my reference. I think that I have the upper portion about built, ready for a warm day to spray paint outside. I still need to create 100 tentacles (25 in each corner). In general, it is 2 feet by 2 feet square, and maybe 15-18 inches tall (with out the base). It will be flying/hovering, so it'll probably be another 4-6 taller, on the base.

When ever I can make my own post, I will show pictures. I don't want to break any rules about "stealing" someone else's post.

Could you link me to the "sketch" at all, please ?

carl
07-11-2006, 11:35
http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/NecronV32.pdf

Thats a link to the necron PDF for Epic.

Iracundus
07-11-2006, 13:19
The recent Medusa V campaign featured a Necron "Tomb Stalker" which was basically a Titan scale Tomb Spyder. This only featured in the narrative though rather than a real playable unit and since the Necrons did poorly in the campaign, the Tomb Stalker was destroyed by Chaos Titans.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
08-11-2006, 08:23
http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/NecronV32.pdf

Thats a link to the necron PDF for Epic.

Thanks :) appreciated. These things make me wish there were official necron epic models, *sigh*

abortionsurvivor
09-11-2006, 00:42
are there any stats for the necron titans???? I would love to make a 40k scale of one of those.

carl
09-11-2006, 00:46
Only for the pylon. And that in one of the IA books i belive. The Abbotoir and Eonic Orb are too big for 40K.

Atherakhia
09-11-2006, 09:02
don't forget the tyranids!

They have their two Biotitans: the spidery Hierophant and the smaller, gaunt-like Hierodule, plus the superheavies: The ravener-esque Trygon and Malanthrope, the biovore-like Exocrine and Haruspex, and the Gargoyle-like transport Harridan (i'm gonna ignore the abomination that is the Malefactor -- i think it's been superceded by the Malanthrope (as it's also a transport option) but i'm not sure -- the Malanthrope isn't in the Epic Lists)

Grindgodgrind
09-11-2006, 12:52
What about the Ordinatus Machines? Mars/Golgotha/Armageddon?

If I recall, Mars generated a lethal sonic wave with it's Sonic Disrupter, the Armageddon had a whopping Nova Cannon, and the Golgotha had a host of Hellfire missiles...super heavy slaughter...

carl
09-11-2006, 13:44
the Armageddon had a whopping Nova Cannon

It can't be a proper Nova cannon as atmospheric friction would destroy the round before it reached it's target. In addition the yelid of the Nova Cannon produces a destructive blast many thousands of kilometers in diamiter. Thats enough to tkae out a whole continent, let alone a battlefeild. It's probably a minturised version of it in reality.

Grindgodgrind
09-11-2006, 17:07
Well, 'google' Ordinatus Armageddon :). I can't remember if it's a mini-NC or full size...

Lamhirh
09-11-2006, 19:34
The Tau would never create titans (in my opinion) as it would give one person enough power to make a significant stand against the ways of their people, ie. rebel. It is the same reason why they don't make a crisis suit for every single one of their warriors.

Not if an Ethereal was part of the crew, besides the other castes vastly outnumber the Ethereals. With all the weaponry Tau grunts have access to already the Ethereals wouldn't stand a chance if their subjects all went 'Farsight' on them anyway. Give Forge World a couple of years and I can almost guarantee we will see a proper Tau titan (crisis suits don't count) ;) ...

Dr.Chud
09-11-2006, 21:28
man I forgot how silly those Ordinatus weapons looked. I played a ton of old Epic and Guard players were rare enough but I never met any who used those. They would have been Gargant fodder anyways.