PDA

View Full Version : Interesting rule



thanoson
11-06-2008, 06:37
So I was looking at the summary sheet of what the new rules do for each army. Under Chaos Daemons it states one of the benefits being able to run after a deepstrike, allowing your troops to get into a better position. I would think the same would be viable from vehicles as well? Anyone with the new rule book see anything contrary to this?

njfed
11-06-2008, 10:30
Yes, you can run, instead of shoot, when exiting a vehicle.

OverchargeThis!
11-06-2008, 12:16
Are you able to run (in this case) if the unit is within 12" of an enemy unit?

Charax
11-06-2008, 12:25
So I was looking at the summary sheet of what the new rules do for each army.

Sorry, but what summary sheet is this?

Stingray_tm
11-06-2008, 12:29
Summary sheet? What summary sheet?

Morbo demands answers!

EvilMinion
11-06-2008, 13:01
It dose'nt state in the Chaos Daemons codex and the summary sheet given out by GW retailers is just a breif on the changes in 5th. No only walkers and infantry can run after deploying via deepstrike. The Daemon Codex was made for 5th all right though note the assault and defensive gernades.

Xethemez
11-06-2008, 13:02
Yes you are able to run within 12" of the enemy, OverchargeThis. The rule was tweaked to drop that restriction and make it so that you just can't assault afterwards.

As for the original question, I don't see a problem. Currently fleet can be used after deepstrike, so technically there were situations where it could be done anyway. I can't see that it would be that unbalanced, it might be good to be able to run into some nearby cover, but you have the option of just getting out behind the vehicle anyway.

thanoson
11-06-2008, 15:34
Good to know. Wait, would'nt everything be able to run regardless of type?

don_mondo
11-06-2008, 16:58
Summary sheet? What summary sheet?

Morbo demands answers!

GW put out a summary sheet of some of the changes. Lists armies and how certain changes will affect/benefit that particluar army. Most stores should now have copies. I got one in the mail yesterday.

Stingray_tm
11-06-2008, 17:03
Could you maybe scan it for us? I would be extremely interested, what GW thinks the effects will be. This would be very enlightening.

It's either:

A. Advertising, that tells us how much better the army now becomes with everything.
or
B. An analysis of the pros and cons.

My money is on A...

don_mondo
11-06-2008, 17:43
Could you maybe scan it for us? I would be extremely interested, what GW thinks the effects will be. This would be very enlightening.

It's either:

A. Advertising, that tells us how much better the army now becomes with everything.
or
B. An analysis of the pros and cons.

My money is on A...

A little bit of both. OK, at the risk of being overwhelmed, I have these in .pdf. Someone have a site where I can post them and we can post the link? If not, I can send them to you individually..............

Charax
11-06-2008, 17:46
www.uploadjockey.com

don_mondo
11-06-2008, 18:02
http://www.uploadjockey.com/download/3636798/40kreferencesheetus.pdf

http://www.uploadjockey.com/download/3139161/40kposmajorchangesflyer_1.pdf

Be warned, looks like pop-ups abound..................

Charax
11-06-2008, 18:03
adblock :D

Yamagon
12-06-2008, 09:17
wow, that website had far more than just a few adds, and was more complicated than previously conceived.

Pretty cool

Whitehorn
12-06-2008, 09:34
Currently fleet can be used after deepstrike.

Not in 4th, you can't.

The *only* thing that can move in any way after deep strike are Warp Spider assault moves. (CSM Daemon summoning is slightly different to DS before someone mentions those).

IJW
12-06-2008, 09:56
Who wrote that changes flyer?

"Witch Hunters - Flamers and heavy flamers are now much more powerful as there
are no partial hits from template weapons."

There aren't in 4th. :rolleyes:

Alpharius
12-06-2008, 10:11
That summary sheet is pretty unintentionally hilarious.

Written by someone other than a regular 40K player, I think.

Plus, it certainly lacks smart "tactics", something all good Warseer users demand!

Stingray_tm
12-06-2008, 10:15
Not in 4th, you can't.

The *only* thing that can move in any way after deep strike are Warp Spider assault moves. (CSM Daemon summoning is slightly different to DS before someone mentions those).

Lictors can charge after Deep Strikes.

Also i love the bit about Necrons now being an assault force, because they can run...

What a bunch of crap.

tarrin
12-06-2008, 10:50
the best one is the "with real LOS, lesser creatures can more effectively shield the all-important synapse creatures"

i have pictures in my head of hive tyrants hiding behind gaunts.

dmk
12-06-2008, 11:21
Sisters advantage is that flamers now auto hit with no partials, WOW JUST LIKE 4th. And the Tau crisis heavy non gun line force without markerlights, oh dear. Well at least pathfinders will be cheap in 5th since there DF can be used for FW. Shame about LOS and my crisis suits and commanders, 1 random missile and there dead. They run when drones die too, if you pay the cost of a Space Marine per drone, oh and donít forget the bonding knife or after 2 drones are dead, your crisis suit canít regroup as its below 50%. My Battle Sisters and SM forces are looking good though. DH are going to struggle even more with tanks now, but I'm not sure anyone will notice.

On a less cynical note I am looking forward to 5th, some new challenges, new fluff, and some new terrain lol.

Elios Harg
12-06-2008, 11:27
Lictors can charge after Deep Strikes.

Also i love the bit about Necrons now being an assault force, because they can run...

What a bunch of crap.

I don't know about becoming an assault force, but the necron close combat units did get innately better due to run being added.

Killmaimburn
12-06-2008, 12:56
Good lord what a find.. thanks guys
I can't help but remember though how "your troops will act under 4th ed" document said that necrons with a chromaticron would own all..(so I'm taking some bits with a pinch of salt) but those links and info are very tasty.. thanks warseer dudes:D

Oh yeah and OP.. i think the main pain is my poor obliterators (having to find a cloud in this silver lining ;)). Their sole purpose in most games is to stop enemy terminators deepstriking with impunity.. now my enemy deep strikes and shuffles apart (3"s average to loose coherancy) and makes my oblits sniff...But hay they are still my only lascannons too (so they won't disappear until some new units turn up in chaos)

guillaume
12-06-2008, 13:14
DH are going to struggle even more with tanks now, but I'm not sure anyone will notice.


well, no actually. Because of the emphasis on troops in 5th, DH are likely to field more vanilla large units of grey knights. A unit of 8-10 grey knight will likely be able to penetrate or glance most small tanks on assault with their S6 weapons even if the tank has moved.

All eldar vehicles are potential victims for an assault DH unit

Also, DH can still take plenty of anti armour of their own.

The land raider has some good days ahead of it in the 5th edition.

40kdhs
12-06-2008, 21:19
Are these rules REAL? I have some questions




Grey Knight Terminators can Deep Strike to contest objectives and
with more forgiving Deep Strike rules, you are much less likely to
lose expensive units to an unfortunate roll of the scatter die.



GKT and GKPA use the same DS rule. How do GKTs have 'forgiving DS rule' when they use the same rule as everybody else? If so, should GKPAs also enjoy the same benefit?

Hrogoff the Destructor
12-06-2008, 21:26
Grey Knight Terminators can Deep Strike to contest objectives and
with more forgiving Deep Strike rules, you are much less likely to
lose expensive units to an unfortunate roll of the scatter die.

They can't actually contest objectives. In 5th only troop choices can do that.

Kirasu
12-06-2008, 21:41
well, no actually. Because of the emphasis on troops in 5th, DH are likely to field more vanilla large units of grey knights. A unit of 8-10 grey knight will likely be able to penetrate or glance most small tanks on assault with their S6 weapons even if the tank has moved.

All eldar vehicles are potential victims for an assault DH unit

Also, DH can still take plenty of anti armour of their own.

The land raider has some good days ahead of it in the 5th edition.

Marines can field 10 marines which cost a lot less and are exactly the same difficulty to kill.. I dont see that as a particular advantage, but it *is* better than 4th as atleast they serve a purpose

6" move models vs eldar skimmers? I suppose if the eldar player has suffered a head injury he would let a grey knight squad assault his skimmers which can move 4x their speed if he wanted..

Good anti tank? Gks have the worse anti tank in the entire game and 5th offers no changes to what you can take.. Therefore you have the worst anti tank in an environment in which tanks are TOUGHER.. This does not mean they have "plenty of options" imo

The land raider is better yes, but the GKs have used those as one of their only anti tanks for ages.. It gives the land raider more durability but not more anti-tank options

Anton Gorodetsky
12-06-2008, 21:42
They can't actually contest objectives. In 5th only troop choices can do that.


I believe only troop choices can capture, anything can contest.

dmk
12-06-2008, 21:44
Everyone who can DS will benefit from the new forgiving DS table, which is in the documents on the previous page.

Latro_
12-06-2008, 22:05
what joker wrote these lol

'wound allocation
in 4th edition, players who suffered shooting wounds got to choose which models were removed from a unit after armour saves were rolled. This meant that they could essentially protect sergeants and heavy weapons from incoming fire. This led to problematic units like huge mobs of orks including an untouchable nob with power klaw'

hang on a minute... how do the the new wound allocation rules hurt big units with hidden nasties? Are you going to wound all 30 of my boyz in one turn so I have to take a single saving throw on the nob? noooo.

hehe the new wound allocation rules hurt SMALL units with specialists.

WH40KAj
12-06-2008, 22:44
what joker wrote these lol

'wound allocation
in 4th edition, players who suffered shooting wounds got to choose which models were removed from a unit after armour saves were rolled. This meant that they could essentially protect sergeants and heavy weapons from incoming fire. This led to problematic units like huge mobs of orks including an untouchable nob with power klaw'

hang on a minute... how do the the new wound allocation rules hurt big units with hidden nasties? Are you going to wound all 30 of my boyz in one turn so I have to take a single saving throw on the nob? noooo.

hehe the new wound allocation rules hurt SMALL units with specialists.


Not quite i had a seminar on the rules at my GW and we went through this at length. Anything like specialist weps and infantry upgrades makes a unit a complex unit. With a complex unit each unit type must allocate a wound as per in the diagram you will see in the book. What this means is Nobz, sarges and any weapon upgrades are wounded regardless first prior to the diagram then the boys, this way you still can't shield models.
Also we discussed at length the whole idea of weapons fired all at once (ie plasmas fired can effectively be lost in firing) and the sarge or weapon specialist as they take wounds first take the hit of any heavier weapons. For instance a nob, big shoota and 15boys get hit by 8 shots, one a plasma wound. The nob (according to the diagram) takes the plasma hit, then any weapon specials...then you allocate the rest to the remaining models and repeat until all wounds have been allocated.
Thats how it was put to me at my GW with the diagram anyways...
WH40KAj

Nexto
12-06-2008, 23:34
@WH40KAj: That would be ... hilarious at best... Are you really really sure about that? Because if its true, the chance to kill spec wep and leaders would be insanely high. Those poor guys would nearly always die first. im sorry, but i really think you must have gotten sth wrong... or the guy who told you it would work that way.

IJW
13-06-2008, 06:58
I believe only troop choices can capture, anything can contest.
Only Troops can capture an objective. Anything can contest it, though.


Not quite i had a seminar on the rules at my GW and we went through this at length. Anything like specialist weps and infantry upgrades makes a unit a complex unit. With a complex unit each unit type must allocate a wound as per in the diagram you will see in the book. What this means is Nobz, sarges and any weapon upgrades are wounded regardless first prior to the diagram then the boys
Either someone seriously messed up the diagram, or they haven't actually read the wound allocation rules. :eyebrows:

The player whose models have been shot chooses which groups in the unit to allocate shots to first (but can't assign wounds to a group again until all groups are covered). So 15 shots on a big Ork Mob are still going to get put on the basic Orks.

Latro_
13-06-2008, 08:04
um yea, that would kinda make any unit upgrades pointless.
You can allocate the wounds to who you like as long as a model only takes a second wound when all other models have taken one.

So in effect its a pimped up version of the current torrent of fire rule. Big units hiding specialists are A LOT better off than min las/plas type units.

I expect we'll be seeing alot of maxed out squad sizes, esp for the likes of devestators, chosen etc..

WH40KAj
13-06-2008, 08:35
@WH40KAj: That would be ... hilarious at best... Are you really really sure about that? Because if its true, the chance to kill spec wep and leaders would be insanely high. Those poor guys would nearly always die first. im sorry, but i really think you must have gotten sth wrong... or the guy who told you it would work that way.

Well i tried several scenarios with models and even then they were adamant that was the case. I pretty much came away seeing it like upgrades really arent worth it anymore, which left things like devastator squads each taking a wound for each different weapon.. i'll get back to everyone again once i've re-asked about it tomorrow... :)

IJW
13-06-2008, 09:13
Well i tried several scenarios with models and even then they were adamant that was the case.
It doesn't matter how adamant they were, it's not what's in the rulebook. :angel:

Latro_
13-06-2008, 13:05
Yes there is no need to re-ask they're flat wrong.
ctrl+p and hand them that wood flake