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View Full Version : 2250pt Empire List- Wizards advice please!



EvilFuzzyDoom
11-06-2008, 12:26
Hi all,

I recently received a bucketload of Empire models with instruction to use them well. I think that the phrase "lamentation of their women" may have been used. This is great, but awkward, since I've not much experience in WHFB (though many years of playing WH40k... poorly) and had been working on an Orcs & Goblins army up until this point. That said, the girlfriend has imposed the "60%" rule (i.e. no buying more models until you've painted 60% of current project) and since she's adhering to it (dutifully & meticulously painting her BFSP Dwarves before picking up Wood Elves) so shall I. Let the Empire-ness begin.

Now, when I say bucketload, I mean somewhere in the vicinity of 200 models. I've put together the 2250 list with the plan to use as many of them as possible! I'd very much like tips for what I can do to turn this (very random!) collection of stuff into a powerhouse army. The goal is to be tournament capable. Tactics tips are also appreciated!

As far as theme goes, I've only put a little thought into it so far- none of the "stock" provinces appeal, and inquisitorial isn't really my style. I may instead go for something fairly mercenary- a rich noble or merchant prince with a wild side and a lust for war-glory assembles a large force for little purpose other than profit. Of course, he takes his pick of the most exquisite wargear and troops! That explains the Helblasters (I received three of them...) :eek:

I've put this up on Warhammer-Empire.com and gotten a little feedback already. Let me know what you think! I'd love some tips on where to put the Wizards & what Lores to give them.

Empire Army List: 2250 points

Characters:

136pts- General of the Empire
Great Weapon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus
(Attached to Greatswords unit)

164pts- Battle Wizard
Warhorse, Level 2 upgrade, Rod of Power, Power Stone

110pts- Battle Wizard
Dispel Scroll, Power Stone

95pts- Battle Wizard
Power Stone, Wizard's Staff

Core:

320pts- 10 Knights
Full Command, Banner of the Daemonslayer

123pts- 5 Knights
Musician

175pts- 25 Swordsmen
Full Command

80pts- 10 Crossbowmen
(Detachment)

175pts- 25 Swordsmen
Full Command

80pts- 10 Handgunners
(Detachment)

50pts- 10 Halberdiers
(Detachment)

Special:

220pts- 19 Greatswords
Full Command

97pts- 5 Pistoliers
Musician

100pts- Great Cannon

100pts- Great Cannon

Rare:

110pts- Helblaster Volley Gun

110pts- Helblaster Volley Gun

Army Totals:
Points Value: 2245 points
Models: 139
Casting Dice: 6
Dispel Pool: 5

RavenBloodwind
11-06-2008, 15:00
I'm loving your 60% rule. At that rate and the speed I paint I can't buy anything until 2025 or so.

As to your list:
The general of the empire is an economy Ld boost but not much else. Based on your using models you've received I suspect me suggesting you put him on a barded warhorse will be challenging.

An infantry heavy Empire list really needs a BSB to boost its chances of staying on the table.

The level 1 wizards don't really add much casting power and if you're just looking for dispel dice a warrior priest is probably a better investment.

I'd look at changing to 2 level 2 wizards (one with rod of power +/- the power stone and one with 2 scrolls or a scroll and VHS to be a pain) and a BSB.

You could probably use a spare knight model (see below) horse and legs and graft your current empire general torso to it to create a mounted general who could still be placed in your greatsword unit.

The 10-man knight unit is an utter waste. Take up to 6. If you want the +1 CR a rank gives you buy a warbanner, it's much cheaper.

Since you have 15 knights I'd suggest two 6-7 man units and use the spare models to convert a mounted general and mounted BSB.

Your infantry blocks seem okay although I think both swordsmen deserve melee detachments (if you can find the models) and the greatswords absolutely deserve a melee detachment.

Cannons are fine.

I'd think about reducing to a single helblaster and use the spare points for the other upgrades mentioned above.

EvilFuzzyDoom
12-06-2008, 12:55
I'm loving your 60% rule. At that rate and the speed I paint I can't buy anything until 2025 or so.

As to your list:
The general of the empire is an economy Ld boost but not much else. Based on your using models you've received I suspect me suggesting you put him on a barded warhorse will be challenging.

An infantry heavy Empire list really needs a BSB to boost its chances of staying on the table.

The level 1 wizards don't really add much casting power and if you're just looking for dispel dice a warrior priest is probably a better investment.

I'd look at changing to 2 level 2 wizards (one with rod of power +/- the power stone and one with 2 scrolls or a scroll and VHS to be a pain) and a BSB.

You could probably use a spare knight model (see below) horse and legs and graft your current empire general torso to it to create a mounted general who could still be placed in your greatsword unit.

The 10-man knight unit is an utter waste. Take up to 6. If you want the +1 CR a rank gives you buy a warbanner, it's much cheaper.

Since you have 15 knights I'd suggest two 6-7 man units and use the spare models to convert a mounted general and mounted BSB.

Your infantry blocks seem okay although I think both swordsmen deserve melee detachments (if you can find the models) and the greatswords absolutely deserve a melee detachment.

Cannons are fine.

I'd think about reducing to a single helblaster and use the spare points for the other upgrades mentioned above.
AFAIK, Armour of Meteoric Iron is cheaper than full plate+shield+barded warhorse.

The greatswords have the Halberdiers as an attachment.

Still, any advice on Lores? I'm inclined to be fairly consistent with what I use rather than changing it up every battle- tournament play and all that, don'tchaknow?

Kalec
12-06-2008, 13:32
Fire is always a good choice. Nice variety of spells, and you can always take the basic fireball if your wiz rolls a spell he is never going to cast.

Andrew Luke
12-06-2008, 13:39
Fire works for level ones, as the number one spell is pretty reliable. I suggest Beasts or Metal for level twos, Shadow if you give him something to juice up in case he rolls pit of shades. Also painting and converting a shadow wizard is fun and they really stand out and look bad ass on the table. I can just imagine the unit he is in shunning away from the pariah! Your list is pretty soft. It could be fun to play and would have no problem winning games if you are an adept general. However it will get steamrolled by many WACC lists, as you are really low on the cheddar. The only potentail comp hit is the dual hell-blasters, but as you aren't playing a gunline I'd say you deserve a 5/5. For sure though it is definitely a list that will teach you about tactics!

kdh88
12-06-2008, 18:16
Hi all,

I recently received a bucketload of Empire models with instruction to use them well. I think that the phrase "lamentation of their women" may have been used. This is great, but awkward, since I've not much experience in WHFB (though many years of playing WH40k... poorly) and had been working on an Orcs & Goblins army up until this point. That said, the girlfriend has imposed the "60%" rule (i.e. no buying more models until you've painted 60% of current project) and since she's adhering to it (dutifully & meticulously painting her BFSP Dwarves before picking up Wood Elves) so shall I. Let the Empire-ness begin.

Now, when I say bucketload, I mean somewhere in the vicinity of 200 models. I've put together the 2250 list with the plan to use as many of them as possible! I'd very much like tips for what I can do to turn this (very random!) collection of stuff into a powerhouse army. The goal is to be tournament capable. Tactics tips are also appreciated!

As far as theme goes, I've only put a little thought into it so far- none of the "stock" provinces appeal, and inquisitorial isn't really my style. I may instead go for something fairly mercenary- a rich noble or merchant prince with a wild side and a lust for war-glory assembles a large force for little purpose other than profit. Of course, he takes his pick of the most exquisite wargear and troops! That explains the Helblasters (I received three of them...) :eek:

I've put this up on Warhammer-Empire.com and gotten a little feedback already. Let me know what you think! I'd love some tips on where to put the Wizards & what Lores to give them.

Could you tell us what other models you have available? It would help when suggesting improvements.


Empire Army List: 2250 points

Characters:

136pts- General of the Empire
Great Weapon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus
(Attached to Greatswords unit)

I like this for a good defensive setup. You might want to think about an Arch-Lector here instead though; the hatred rerolls would be useful for the greatswords, and the bound spells could really help your magic phase.


164pts- Battle Wizard
Warhorse, Level 2 upgrade, Rod of Power, Power Stone

110pts- Battle Wizard
Dispel Scroll, Power Stone

95pts- Battle Wizard
Power Stone, Wizard's Staff

I like the level 2's kit, but I don't like the level ones. I agree with the earlier poster that one level 2 would probably be better here. On lores, I like fire for damage and life for easily cast support.

Another question: Will your girlfriend's dwarfs be your main opponent or is this intended be more of a take all comers list? If its the former, you may want to rethink taking magic at all; dwarves have very good magic defenses (and your own defenses would be wasted). Also, you might have trouble dealing with warmachines without a pegasus captain if she goes shooty.


Core:

320pts- 10 Knights
Full Command, Banner of the Daemonslayer

123pts- 5 Knights
Musician


The first unit is probably too big (I understand you want outnumbering for fear, but 100 points for a rank bonus is too much). Two units of 6 would probably be better


175pts- 25 Swordsmen
Full Command

80pts- 10 Crossbowmen
(Detachment)

175pts- 25 Swordsmen
Full Command

80pts- 10 Handgunners
(Detachment)


These guys need combat detachments. More advice on those in a second.



Special:

220pts- 19 Greatswords
Full Command

50pts- 10 Halberdiers
(Detachment)


I'd recommend dropping the greatswords down to 17 and running them 6x3. If you're paying for those S5 attacks, you want to make sure you get to use as many as possible.

On the detachments, I and most others find a 3x3 works best. You don't get the rank bonus, but it minimizes possible return casualties and makes the unit more maneuverable. I do like the choice of halberdiers, though some prefer free company or swordsmen.


97pts- 5 Pistoliers
Musician

100pts- Great Cannon

100pts- Great Cannon

All solid choices.


Rare:

110pts- Helblaster Volley Gun

110pts- Helblaster Volley Gun

Last edition this would have been good, but Helblasters took a bit of a nerf in the new book. They still have their place, but I think one is sufficient for this list, particularly with the two cannons in there.

Not a bad effort for a first list overall, just needs a little tweaking.

minionboy
12-06-2008, 18:28
Here are my brief changes:
Forget Handgunner/Xbow detachments.

Add detachments of 6-9 Swordsmen or Spearmen instead. Use them to attack flanks when you charge or get charged, that will give you a static +5 or 6 if you outnumber and will make sure the enemy doesn't get their +3.

Upgrade one of your Helblasters to a Rocket battery. I hated them now i'm a believer. It just takes one good hit to crumble the enemy.

Toltoļ
12-06-2008, 20:30
Give a try to your 10 knights unit. Everybody is always saying to take only 5-6 knights units, because you pay too much for +1 CR, but often it will be +3 instead because you also take outnumbering from the opponent. The Banner of the Daemonslayer will like it. Just make sure to avoid getting stucked into meaningless combat (shoot annoying units getting close to them), and keep them into 12" of your general because panic is not your friend. Empire don't have alot of hammer units, knights in sufficient number can be one of them.

Level 1 Wizard with Power Stone and Wizard Staff? For 5 more points you get a level 2 which will not need the Staff, will generate more dice then a Stone, and will know 1 more spell?!? Your Wizards are the only thing I don't like in your list. Remove all the Power Stones and the Staff, and make everybody level 2.

Personally I like the Lore of Fire and Metal to complement your army, maybe Heaven. If you take Beast you have a good chance to get 2 spells you will not really need, or at least not need in the first stage of the game. Life and Light can help against some units you may have trouble with, but are more "protective" and so can be bad against some opponents. Death Lore is too short ranged for you. I don't really see how Shadow could help you either.

I think the Arch-Lector would be more useful if you had a more offensive army. His bound spells are of no use as long as you are not in cc.

Your list seem to have only one fighting detachment, are you planning to surprise opponents by countercharging with missile units :) ? Since your army should be pretty much stationary it could work!