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jpf1982
11-06-2008, 22:38
Okay so here's my question.
Since it's cool if I equip my engineer with both a rifle and pidgeon (spl?) bombs can he use both in the same turn?

theunwantedbeing
11-06-2008, 22:41
No, you may not.

OldMaster
11-06-2008, 22:41
Engineer releases the bird, then throws up his Hochland Long Rifle, aims, and.... shoots the bird down :)

If you think 40k, you can't. I don't think you can, sadly.

T10
11-06-2008, 22:55
While the rules do not take into account models armed with a mix of missile weapons, they do state that the model can only shoot once. See p.26. This is somewhat muddled by referring to the weapon he carries so desn't take into account multiple missile weapons. But the basic principle appears clear none-the-less.

-T10

Templar_Victorious
13-06-2008, 01:56
Isn't that stated on p.25? Anyhow, as there is no rule for mixed weapon on a model (except for special cases) , it still says, as T10 says, shoot once.

However, there is two special cases in the Empire army book that do come up with 2 models armed with 2 different weapons, and those models may shoot with both. These are the only models I can think of at the moment with that certain special weapon rule. (Pg. 47 in the Empire army book)

Condottiere
13-06-2008, 08:41
However, there is two special cases in the Empire army book that do come up with 2 models armed with 2 different weapons, and those models may shoot with both. These are the only models I can think of at the moment with that certain special weapon rule. (Pg. 47 in the Empire army book)

Can you expand on this?:confused:

Templar_Victorious
20-10-2008, 10:48
The Outriders... sorry, haven't checked in here in while.

Faustburg
20-10-2008, 11:22
The outriders what? Can shoot two weapons? No... Can even carry two different weapons? No, not that either, really...

Things in the Empire Army possibly carrying more than one ranged weapon:

* Generals and Captains (up to four, really.. pistol, longbow, handgun, plus the Dragon Bow magic weapon...)

* Engineers: 2 or 5, depending on how you interpretate the "and/or" before the pigeon bombs in his list..

* Pistoliers and Outrider champions (two pistols)

* Steam Tank (two)

Of these only the steam tank can shoot two weapons, because it specifically is allowed in itīs rules ( Double pistols fire as one weapon with multiple shot penalty as per the BRB).

DeathlessDraich
20-10-2008, 23:16
Since the original question has been answered, I would like to mention a strange use of the Pigeon Bomb, with your permission jpf1982:

Stand and shoot with the Pigeon Bomb.

On a roll of 5-6, this is resolved at the starting position of the chargers

But here's the contentious bit:

On a roll of 1-2, this is resolved when the chargers make contact with the M Engineer! :eek:

Condottiere
21-10-2008, 00:17
You can stand and shoot with a bomb-carrying pigeon?

Atrahasis
21-10-2008, 00:28
On a roll of 1-2, this is resolved when the chargers make contact with the M Engineer! :eek:Firstly, it would only be a roll of a 1.

Secondly, regardless of where the template is placed, the range is unchanged - it is limitless. The chargers are still in range even if the Pigeon is placed over the engineer.

kramplarv
21-10-2008, 01:34
pigeons ftw!!

SolarHammer
21-10-2008, 02:30
It's the worst option in the game for the worst character in the game.

If that ever comes up in a game I'll let him do whatever the hell he wants with his damn pigeons.

feeder
21-10-2008, 04:29
It's the worst option in the game for the worst character in the game.

If that ever comes up in a game I'll let him do whatever the hell he wants with his damn pigeons.


:lol: QFT!

The Engineer is a really, really bad choice. It's a shame, because the idea is so cool.

Templar_Victorious
22-10-2008, 15:59
The outriders what? Can shoot two weapons? No... Can even carry two different weapons? No, not that either, really...

Things in the Empire Army possibly carrying more than one ranged weapon:

* Generals and Captains (up to four, really.. pistol, longbow, handgun, plus the Dragon Bow magic weapon...)

* Engineers: 2 or 5, depending on how you interpretate the "and/or" before the pigeon bombs in his list..

* Pistoliers and Outrider champions (two pistols)

* Steam Tank (two)

Of these only the steam tank can shoot two weapons, because it specifically is allowed in itīs rules ( Double pistols fire as one weapon with multiple shot penalty as per the BRB).


The outrider champion in a unit of pistoliers may indeed have two different weapons and use them both at the same time. Same goes for the Outrider champion in a unit of outriders. Pg 47, Empire army book.

SolarHammer
22-10-2008, 16:04
According to the preview FAQ answers for WoC from Phil Kelly posted on Warhammer.org.uk, a Chaos character with the Deaths Head, Bloodcurdling Roar and Stream of Corruption will be able to blow his load in one shooting phase.

Templar_Victorious
22-10-2008, 16:09
Also, the marksman in a unit of handgunners may also carry more than one ranged weapon.
Empire army book, pg 77.

Faustburg
22-10-2008, 16:18
What part of "instead of" is it you don't understand there in the army list?

Or did you miss that I already listed a brace of pistols (one of them repeater or ordinary) as the closest thing to shooting "two weapons"?

Templar_Victorious
23-10-2008, 01:51
And what part of, "may swap ONE of his pistols", didn't you get. A pistol and a repeater pistol are two different weapons, that is allowed to be use in conjunction. Also, the handgunner marksman may swap his handgun for a brace of pistols, that may be fired 2 at the same time. How hard can it be? Pistol and Repeater Pistol, two different weapons. One is single shot, the other one is repeating, and one suffer multiple shots penalty, the other don't. so, there you have it. Brace of pistols giving you two shots, also suffering from MS penalty. And if you think that brace of pistols is one weapon, think again.

And BTW, I don't see you mentioning RPT pistol anywhere.

Faustburg
23-10-2008, 10:11
Ok, so you are just not the sharpest tool in the box...

I covered pistols above. Whatever, carry on then...

Templar_Victorious
23-10-2008, 16:32
I wonder who just lost the argument, resolving to personal insults, and also being wrong. Saying two pistols, and arguing that these cannot shoot at the same time, or stating that you've covered these in one word, is an assumption on your part.
Like everything else in the rules, weapons and equipment have their rules stated. As an example, Enchanted shield. First word in the rules, Shield.
Likewise with pistols and repeater pistols or handguns and repeater handguns and so on.
Pistols and Repeater pistols are not the same thing, and I repeat may be used in conjuction, but are by no means the same, even if YOU assume so. Example from another book would be to say crossbows when in fact you are talking about repeater crossbows, that's the same thing. Both follow very different rules, but by your assumption, crossbows are just fine. Which in fact, it is not. Both weapons follow different rules, and same with the normal and repeater versions of pistols.

So, try to back up your claims by something real, instead of trying to back them up with insults, that makes your claim just seem silly.

And why no actually bother looking at pg 47 in the Empire book, before stating your obvious wrong assumptions?

@ everyone else looking. Sorry for the rant, but I don't like insults, no matter how mild.

Faustburg
23-10-2008, 17:05
Ehh... what is on p. 47 that is so important? Seriously, wondering?

Really, guy... I listed pistols in the first place, assuming the reader to be sensible enough to understand that "pistols" included all those kinds of weapons, but in this case, that assumption seem to have been giving you too much credit, pointing out that they are not really two weapons firing by the rules, they become "one" with the Multiple shot rules. Read the repeater pistol rule there, or the pistols in the BRB.

So what stands is that you cannot shoot two weapons at the same time. Two pistols, no matter the sub-type, is fired as one.

Templar_Victorious
24-10-2008, 04:26
The repeater pistol is not a subtype, it's a weapon on it's own. It can be used by itself, or together with a normal pistol (or brace of, though the brace may not be used while firing the repeater pistol, only one pistol may be used with the repeater pistol). Therefore, it is another weapon. If the engineer in the steamtank would be armed with a normal pistol instead of the repeater pistol, that would be stated as pistol and not repeater pistol.
And even so, they are two weapons being fired at the same time, or do you assume the pistol magically gets 3 more shots, because it's another pistol there. No, the extra shots comes from another weapon, such as the repeater pistol. While sharing much of the same statistics, it's a weapon of it's own. Otherwhise, the special stats wouldn't be spelled out, nor would the name be specifically listed in the unit upgrade or equipment list, it would just say pistol. You know, if you would put together an army rooster, and just list pistol where as your unit had a repeater pistol, that would mean you either forgot to put it there, or trying to cheat out on some points if you would be asked to show your rooster after the game. You aren't a cheater, are you?

Templar_Victorious
24-10-2008, 05:06
Look, I'm sorry for us blowing this subject out of proportions. Let's just leave it at a point where we disagree on the subject, which is actually not having any effect on the gameplay.
Either way you look at it, the way to use the rule will be the same. So let's agree to disagree, shall we?

BEEGfrog
24-10-2008, 16:51
Always willing to put the boot in when a fight breaks out...

Models can only shoot once with one weapon unless a special rule allows differently. The multi-shot rules are a special case of the shoot once rules where the single shooting action produces multiple shots. Pistols are a special case of a multi-shot weapon where multiple pistols can be used as if they are multiple rounds in a single weapon, a different way of producing multiple shots from a single weapon system.

The rule is you can't shoot twice even if you have multiple weapons, but your single shooting action can produce multiple shots.

Templar_Victorious
25-10-2008, 07:42
By your flawing logic, you are saying that we can't count 2 pistols, a brace of pistols, or a pistol and a repeater pistol as two weapons?
By your flawed logic then, there wouldn't be no need for the rule specifying that a normal pistol and a Rpt pistol may combine their fire to create x4 MS.
If they couldn't shoot both weapons, they would either shoot once, with no MS penalty with the normal pistol, or shoot 3 times with the Rpt Pistol. They could never combine them. always 1 or 3 shots, never combine them. So therefore the rule in the Empire book on pg.47 would be reduntant, in your way of thinking.

SolarHammer
25-10-2008, 08:05
The rule is you can't shoot twice even if you have multiple weapons, but your single shooting action can produce multiple shots.

Again, there isn't actually a rule like that in the rulebook.

Again, if the answers given by Phil Kelly regarding the Chaos book are any indication, Chaos characters will be able to make 3 shooting attacks in the same phase (Deaths Head, Bloodcurdling Roar and Stream of Corruption).

Faustburg
25-10-2008, 09:52
By your flawing logic, you are saying that we can't count 2 pistols, a brace of pistols, or a pistol and a repeater pistol as two weapons?
By your flawed logic then, there wouldn't be no need for the rule specifying that a normal pistol and a Rpt pistol may combine their fire to create x4 MS.
If they couldn't shoot both weapons, they would either shoot once, with no MS penalty with the normal pistol, or shoot 3 times with the Rpt Pistol. They could never combine them. always 1 or 3 shots, never combine them. So therefore the rule in the Empire book on pg.47 would be reduntant, in your way of thinking.


We are not counting anything as anything, special ed...

I am not making any logic statements, I realize you have seen the older kids using terms like "logic" on the internet, and think you are entitled to look like a big boy using it too, but you fail....

What I did was saying that there is no instances of models in the army being allowed to shoot two ranged weapons (Pigeons and another being the start). In that I listed braces of pistols, pointing out that they were the closest thing to firing two weapons. I took the liberty to just use the wider "pistols", assuming normally gifted people did not need to have the different variations spelled out to them. That was my failure; you were not one of those.

P.47, repeater pistol: ...multiple shot x3 (x4 if combined with a pistol)...

So, one weapon, with multiple shot x4. Of course there are two pistols there, but that is not the same thing as shooting two weapons in the game! That was the whole point.

You are on crusade for two pistols being two weapons! I mean, wow, way to pick your causes...:p

Now let this die, you are an embarrassment for other swedes here.

philbrad2
25-10-2008, 11:55
The question posed by the thread poster is simple, please stick to its request and cease the little flame war we have had on here. Warnings have been meted out . Keep the thread on topic or it will get locked and possible further actions taken.

Move along ... nothing to see.

PhilB
:chrome:
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Atrahasis
25-10-2008, 13:19
Again, there isn't actually a rule like that in the rulebook.Page 25 says that a model can make a single shooting attack regardless of the number of ranged weapons it possesses.