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View Full Version : Are Blood crushers cavalry or monsters?



blackjack
13-06-2008, 02:59
I am confused, the rule book only seems to cover characters riding monsterous creatures, by base size one would assume Blood crushers are monstors. If so why do the rules give a crusher give a +3 as opposed a +1 rider armor save when a monstor gives no armor save according to the rules?

What is the unit strength of a crusher 3 or 2?

Nurgling Chieftain
13-06-2008, 03:02
The difference between a regular and monstrous mount is in its number of wounds, not its base size. As a 1-wound model, a Juggernaut is a cavalry mount, and adds to its rider's armor save, but cannot be itself harmed aside from being removed when its rider is. Its base size is indeed unusual for a cavalry mount, which IIRC is mentioned in its entry.

logan054
13-06-2008, 06:44
Its just a cavalry mount, its not all that confusing really, its a single wound steed.

Milgram
13-06-2008, 07:11
it is even specially stated in the rules of the blood crushers.

OldMaster
13-06-2008, 09:39
Well, it kinda is confusing when you put him next to Dorgher - Dorghar has 3 Wounds when the Juggernaut is bigger... :|

Butyeah, they are cavalry.

Lord Snerual
13-06-2008, 09:43
Yeah, cavalry, but I agree it looks weird with that great bases, but I know it doesn't matter how large the base is, it's the wounds that makes the difference.

LOL A HE dragon with only one wound. "No you can't kill my dragon seperately, it's cavalry!"

Phazael
13-06-2008, 18:31
They are Cavalry, but they are also US3, due to their base size. This was the case in the previous SOC as well and there are other examples of similar models. 40mm/25mm models that are not monsters are always US3, unless they have rules that specify otherwise (Teredons and Felbats have such rules making them US1, Brettonian Pegasus Knights are stated in their rules as being US2, ect), so things like Palanquin mounted heralds, Bloodcrushers, and Ogre Hunters are all US3, despite having wounds that differ from that amount. Remeber that the main way of US is base size and while most cavalry are on 25x50mm bases and all such bases are US2, not all such units are this way.

As for the other rare choices, like Beasts of Nurgle and Fiends, they are not cavalry, nor are they monsters. They are essentially infantry models with high movement rates. The closest approximation for them would be like a unit of trolls or ogres, and they are also US3, but not affected by things that specifically target either monsters or cavalry (Wolf Hunts, Collar of Zorga, ect).

Fulgrim's-Chosen
13-06-2008, 18:38
Hmmmm.....are you SURE about that Phaz ?

I would LOVE if that were true, as it would mean that (IIRC), Palanquin-riding Heralds of Nurgle, or Juggernaut-mounted Heralds of Khorne, would be immune to Killing Blow (as it can only affect US-2 or less models) ? ? ?

That would be awesome, since my Herald of Nurgle has twice been K-Blowed by Grave Guards in some of my past few games !


But are you certain about that ? It's not really clear in the army book - as in previous books they would usually tell you directly "Unit Strength: - XXX" in some instances.

decker_cky
13-06-2008, 18:52
They're US2 because they're cavalry. The base size isn't the defining thing in the US table, the unit type is. They're cavalry therefore they're US2, but they have an exception to the normal unit base size.

WLBjork
13-06-2008, 19:35
They will not be US3.

This is defined as:

Up to and including Ogre-sized
Square 40mm/50mm base
On foot

As the models aren't on foot, they aren't US3.

Ther only alternative is that they are US2

Malorian
13-06-2008, 20:03
Unless... they are US5!!! Just kidding ; )

From what I'm reading here it seems they should be US2, but as far as the collar working on them I think it's only fair that the jugger is effected.

Nurgling Chieftain
13-06-2008, 21:02
Wait, what collar? :confused:

senorcardgage
13-06-2008, 21:57
Unless... they are US5!!! Just kidding ; )

From what I'm reading here it seems they should be US2, but as far as the collar working on them I think it's only fair that the jugger is effected.

What in god's name are you talking about? Who has a collar? Are you talking about the heralds only? How would it change if the jugger was affected or not?!

Jonke
13-06-2008, 22:05
The collar of zorga. It's a beast of chaos magic items that stops mosnters from attacking the wearer.

decker_cky
13-06-2008, 22:08
Works against the mounts since they're mounts, but absolutely 100% sure, doesn't affect the bloodletters.

Phazael
14-06-2008, 08:30
They're US2 because they're cavalry. The base size isn't the defining thing in the US table, the unit type is. They're cavalry therefore they're US2, but they have an exception to the normal unit base size.

Actually, I am pretty certain it is US3, because the base size IS the defining factor of Unit Strength in most cases (monsters and skirmishers being the exception) and the cavalry unit description specifically cites 25x50 bases., both on the US chart and the description of Cavalry. The 7th edition SoC faq also has all Daemonic cavalry at US3. The Cav distinction is there purely for things like spell effect and magic item mechanics. I would be very suprised if the FAQ puts them at US2, honestly. They suck enough as it is. The Beasts of Nurgle (and Fiends) are definately US3, no question.

On second thought, they way rescent FAQs have been, it could be anyone's guess as to what they do.....

Nurgling Chieftain
14-06-2008, 08:42
They are cavalry despite their base size (DoC, page 44). Cavalry are US2 (BRB, page 71). Bloodcrushers are therefore US2. End of story...
The Beasts of Nurgle (and Fiends) are definately US3, no question.Agreed - they are ogre class "infantry" in game terms.

Spider
14-06-2008, 09:10
Agreed.

The description of them states that they are cavalry.

It doesn't state they are cavalry with funky exceptions.

Hence normal cavalry US.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
14-06-2008, 11:30
They really do need to boost them then, via FAQ.

Saying:

"Bloodcrushers should be counted as Unit Strength 3 models, regardless of what their rules, base size, or unit type would otherwise suggest."


...that would be fantastic and a need ooomph to the Crushers. So far, although they have great models, and DO hit really hard....they are so fragile (for Super-Heavy Cavalry) that it is hard to make them worth their extreme points cost.

Also, the idea that you can run a VERY expensive unit of 3 (200+ points)....lose ONE ....ONLY one...and suddenly not be able to negate ranks/flanks/etc. as you are no longer US-5+, is pretty crappy.