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Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 08:52
This came up yesterday in a battle with my Orcs and Goblins against Tomb Kings. My Shaman was equiped with the rather cheap Coller of Zorga which is described as forcing, steeds, steeds pulling chariots, monsters and monstrous mounts to require 6s to hit. The unit he was in came into contact with a unit of Ushabati? and we couldnt decide wether or not they counted as monsters. The 40mm base used to be called a monster base yet i am aware of the ruling of big infantry for the ogres. So my Question is this.

What counts as a monster? or monstrous mount for each army?

Orcs and Goblins
Empire
Tomb Kings
Vampire Counts
Deamons of Chaos
Skaven
Dark Elves
Wood Elves
High Elves
Beasts of Chaos
Brettonians
Ogre Kingdoms
Dwarfs
Hordes of Chaos
Lizardmen

I think thats all of them.

OldMaster
13-06-2008, 09:06
Phew, really long list


Rulebook says everyone larger than an Ogre.

Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 09:15
So anything on a 40mm monster base does not count as a monster. Ha ha. Fair enough i suppose. So i guess the Ushabati did not count as monsters then (they just attacked the unit in the end but got flanked by river trolls and soon crumbled)

What about greater deamons, characters or monsters?

Armilthuan
13-06-2008, 09:19
They are both characters and monsters.

OldMaster
13-06-2008, 09:20
They are both, and although this is rather unrealistic, I suppose they are affected.

GranFarfar
13-06-2008, 09:35
They are both, and although this is rather unrealistic, I suppose they are affected.

According to the FAQ they are not affected.

Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 09:46
The Deamons have an FAQ already?! wow.

Edit: i just looked at the GW site and there is no Deamon army book Errata.

OldMaster
13-06-2008, 09:51
Maybe GranFarfar means the Hordes of Chaos on.e

Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 10:01
Nope Hordes (or Warriors of Chaos) have no Errata at the moment just a new list you can download as the deamon release made the current book not work properly. Nowhere in the Errata documents on the GW site does it say that Greater Deamons are monsters but are not affected by the Coller of Zorga, ergo, they are! as per the rulebook; they are bigger than an ogre.

Braad
13-06-2008, 11:39
Greater daemons are characters that follow certion rules as they are described for monsters, but are not monsters. Something is either a character or a monster. Well, at least that's how I remember it.

AFAIK its the 50mm base that is called monster base, not the 40mm one.

Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 12:02
Sorry, the 50mm base is the monster one i know that, its just that only came about in 6th edition and im still stuck on calling the 40mm ones monster bases and the 50mm ones character mount bases

Loopstah
13-06-2008, 12:09
Ushbati are not monsters because monsters can never form or join units.

Monsters always fight alone, unless ridden by characters when they can join units.
pg 58.

Monsters are anything larger than an ogre.
pg 71.

So a monster is anything larger than an ogre that can't join units or form a unit with other monsters of the same type.

Urgat
13-06-2008, 12:33
No matter what the rules for greater daemons are, I'd never try and have the colar of zorga work on them, no matter how awesome that would be. I'd feel like cheating...

Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 12:44
Monsters always fight alone, unless ridden by characters when they can join units.
pg 58.

Monsters are anything larger than an ogre.
pg 71.

Thanks that pretty much answers the question. So the Tomb Scorpian is a monster, but Ushbati arnt, perfect.

sulla
13-06-2008, 21:47
Greater daemons are characters that follow certion rules as they are described for monsters, but are not monsters. Something is either a character or a monster. Well, at least that's how I remember it.

AFAIK its the 50mm base that is called monster base, not the 40mm one.

That's from the silly beasts of chaos FAQ. It is outdated by the daemons armybook which states that GD and daemon princes are both characters and monsters.

Gobbo Lord
13-06-2008, 22:02
so the coller works against them. wow. best 5 points ever spent.

Any ruling on Deamons in the Beasts FAQ would be overruled by the new book. This is because Beasts can no longer take Deamons. So Greater Demons are Monsters. Bwaaahhh hah ah aha. Feel the wrath of my night goblin Big Boss Bloodthirster of Khorne.

decker_cky
13-06-2008, 22:20
Erm....the beasts of chaos FAQ is 'wrong', but it did come out 2 weeks after the Daemons book, and is the offcial word on the matter. With rune of the true beast and collar of zorga being essentially the same thing, I can't see it not being a case where the rulings transfers to another item.

Morentez
15-06-2008, 08:58
ok reading this im a little confused...
ogre hunter... on a 50mm base... cant form/ join units (except with sabertusks) but is still no larger than an ogre as he is an ogre...

sorry if thats a silly question it just stuck in my mind there for a second

GranFarfar
15-06-2008, 09:17
As has been mentioned, just look up the BoC FAQ. It clearly states that monstrous characters are first and foremost characters, and therefore not affected by the Rune of the true beast. My guess would be that this is also true for Collar of Zorga.

T10
15-06-2008, 10:05
What are monsters?

In general:
- Any monstrous mount (i.e. a mount with more than 1 wound).

Beasts of Chaos
- Chaos Giant
- Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
- Spawn of Chaos

Bretonnia
- Hipogryph
- Royal Pegasus

Daemons of Chaos
- Greater Daemon
- Daemon Prince

Dwarfs
- Gyrocopter (!)

The Empire
- Griffon
- The Imperial Dragon
- Imperial Pegasus
(The Steam Tank is a Warmachine)

Lizardmen
- Carnosaur
- Stegadon
- Salamanders (if using them as "monsters with handlers").

Orcs & Goblins
- Giant
- Gigantic Spider
- Great Squig
- Wyvern

Tomb Kings
- Bone Giant
- Tomb Scorpion

Vampire Counts:
- Abyssal Terrror
- Corpse Cart
- Varghulf
- Zombie Dragon

Wood Elves
- Forest Dragon
- Great Eagle
- Great Stag
- Unicorn
- Treeman
- Treman Ancient

Feel free to expand the list.

-T10

Loopstah
15-06-2008, 10:06
ok reading this im a little confused...
ogre hunter... on a 50mm base... cant form/ join units (except with sabertusks) but is still no larger than an ogre as he is an ogre...

sorry if thats a silly question it just stuck in my mind there for a second

He can form a unit with the sabretusks, a monster couldn't.

Morentez
15-06-2008, 10:08
thanks... i was just confused on that one just in case a lone hunter COULD be affected but a hunter with sabertusks couldn't

decker_cky
15-06-2008, 23:39
I'm not sure spawn are monsters btw. I think they're ogre sized infantry actually, since they're on foot and not bigger than ogres.

xragg
16-06-2008, 01:09
Treeman ancient is a monstrous character and is treated as a character. Same is true with demon characters that are on monstrous bases.