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mjayc50
13-06-2008, 21:56
Hey all thx 4 looking...

imoff to the 13th black crusade in september with chaos space marines based around the emperors children. for my 1500 pt apocalypse add on i have no idea really. thinking about defilers with flank march to kill those big tanks with and titans (lol) but the point is this - i need some flyers! not to bomb the crap out of the enemy but as an anti air option so im really looking for fighter support. now i dont have the foggiest about them but i know i can take anything chaos, space marine or imperial navy. what would you guys suggest? i want nice cheap models both money and points wise :chrome:

any ideas welcome for both air support and apocalypse add ons!!! tyvm!

Cirenivel
13-06-2008, 22:03
Anything with anti-air mounts is a safe bet against flyers. I think (no book ATM) that a lightning or two would be a safe bet. Either that, or a thunderbolt (believe that they've got anti-air capabilities in the imperial armour suplement).

Personaly I would've taken one of each, or just two lightnings, or if you're looking for only one I would say that the lightning is the safest bet

Partisan Rimmo
13-06-2008, 22:03
Well, what I always intended to do was scratch build a handful of traitor Thunderbolts. It's the cheapest its gonna get, I don't think it'd be insanely hard, and having several of them to form a squadron would be brilliantly characterful.

Durath
13-06-2008, 22:04
Easy answer... but not cheap...
Buy a couple Hell Blades. If I remember correctly, they are Interceptors (so they use their BS to shoot other flyers) and with Autocannons, you have a good shot at taking down all but the toughest flyers.

Royal Tiger
13-06-2008, 22:24
even cheaper is just buying a couple of 1/72 fighters (like Tomcats), although a smaller scale there still very big aircraft (my SU........27 I think, is about 12" long, and thats 1/72), then just use the rules for the fighter you want to use, and say the fighter is from a different world of construction

stick a few oversized 40k weapons on to it and your done

mjayc50
13-06-2008, 22:27
arent they like 40 a pop? and do they only have autocannons!? twin linked i guess but still.... would it hurt them to chuck a lascannon in there?

mjayc50
13-06-2008, 22:29
even cheaper is just buying a couple of 1/72 fighters (like Tomcats), although a smaller scale there still very big aircraft (my SU........27 I think, is about 12" long, and thats 1/72), then just use the rules for the fighter you want to use, and say the fighter is from a different world of construction

stick a few oversized 40k weapons on to it and your done

i dont think i would be able to look myself in the eye if i did this.... does it work? why have i got a picture in my head of a spitfire with the mark of slaanesh and a terminator head shoe horned into the cock-pit...

Royal Tiger
13-06-2008, 22:34
i dont think i would be able to look myself in the eye if i did this.... does it work? why have i got a picture in my head of a spitfire with the mark of slaanesh and a terminator head shoe horned into the cock-pit...
trust me it does work, 1/72 MODERN jets are huge models, and work perfectly.

if your thinking spitfire, then your thinking the wrong age, and 1/72 spitfires are tiny

Varath- Lord Impaler
13-06-2008, 23:56
Thunderbolts are the supreme anti air aircraft for chaos/imperium.

4 S7 Rerollable to hit anti aircraft shots? YES PLEASE!

Partisan Rimmo
14-06-2008, 00:07
trust me it does work, 1/72 MODERN jets are huge models, and work perfectly.

if your thinking spitfire, then your thinking the wrong age, and 1/72 spitfires are tiny

Got any specific recommendations?

Bigbot
14-06-2008, 00:14
Thunderbolts are the supreme anti air aircraft for chaos/imperium.

4 S7 Rerollable to hit anti aircraft shots? YES PLEASE!


Hell Blades do exactly the same job and are cheaper in points and cost

Col. Tartleton
14-06-2008, 04:20
I've got a lovely 1:48 F-15 E. Strike Eagles are hot... And it is actually about the size that a 40k plane should be, as the pilot seats are still tiny enough for a 1 inch fig (realistic scale that is), despite being technically out of scale. Itd be nice as a VDR with an assault cannon, 4 HK missiles and 2Advanced Bombs.

Or make it a tau Gue'vesa fighter, call the assault cannon a CIB and give it 4 Seekers a networked ML and the kitchen sink. (Not that that helps a chaos player much.)

mjayc50
14-06-2008, 09:44
hell blade models do look the mutts nuts dont they. most air units are armour ten arent they so that might stick. 3 to glance and all. all you gotta do is stun them to stop them ruining your day... might get 2 just to annoy people.... still thats like 80 quid! nevermind... il just sell some stuff on ebay that i dont use... (anyone want some sisters of battle?) what about the rest of the addon force? we havent had any ideas about that yet! i love the idea of defilers coming on from their board edge straight into a titan.... that makes me lol...

adreal
14-06-2008, 09:49
Well I own a hell balde, and it is a nice kit, in fact more forge world i've seen is worth the price (detail and all that jazz) so a hell balde or two (or 6, you know for slaanesh lol) would be well worth the investment

Royal Tiger
14-06-2008, 12:38
Got any specific recommendations?
1/72 scale
A-10
F-8P/J Crusaders
F/A-18C hornets
F-16CG/CJ
F-14A Tomcat
F-15C Eagle
Sukhoi SU-27 Flanker B

heres a pic of my Half finished Sukhoi SU-27 Flanker B next to a marine and a guardsmen
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/King_Tiger_101/Sukhoi002.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/King_Tiger_101/Sukhoi001.jpg

Kyrios
14-06-2008, 13:48
Doesn't seem very 40k on the other hand. Imperial Navy borrows heavily from WWII design, Late war Luftwaffe planes MIGHT do it but if its character you want I think you have to pay FW prices or do as Rimmo suggested and do a little scratchbuilding.
Or, if its only AA you want, convert a Hydra or VDR something similar.

Col. Tartleton
14-06-2008, 15:01
72 are too small, a 48 is more accurate. A fighter plane (a current one at least) are over 60 feet in length. WW2 fighters are about half that. That would be aboutscale 11 inches for a fighter. or 5.5 if you want a more old fashioned one. However, 40k vehicles are usually out of scale with those dimensions due to heroic, so 16 inch 1:48s fit better.

borithan
14-06-2008, 17:05
72 are too small, a 48 is more accurate. A fighter plane (a current one at least) are over 60 feet in length. WW2 fighters are about half that. That would be aboutscale 11 inches for a fighter. or 5.5 if you want a more old fashioned one. However, 40k vehicles are usually out of scale with those dimensions due to heroic, so 16 inch 1:48s fit better.
As said, modern planes though are much bigger, and so even in 1/72 scale are not too shabby... Have a 1/72 A-10 I might possibly use for something like this... main problem though is you would probably want to hide any interior of cockpits, as any seats you would see would be tiny.

Havock
14-06-2008, 17:38
The lightning should have the interceptor rule. Thunderbolt is 'jack of all trades', lightning (not strike) is a light air superiority fighter. Zippy as hell.

Damocles8
14-06-2008, 18:05
I would recommend using Aeronautica Imperialis models in conjunction with Apocalypse games, especially if you expect more than a few models on the board....

Royal Tiger
14-06-2008, 20:52
As said, modern planes though are much bigger, and so even in 1/72 scale are not too shabby... Have a 1/72 A-10 I might possibly use for something like this... main problem though is you would probably want to hide any interior of cockpits, as any seats you would see would be tiny.
I usually spray the varnish that I use on the models over the cockpit, covers it up with a mist so you can't see inside, but doesn't look as weird as painting it blue or black or something

mjayc50
15-06-2008, 12:23
tho i can see how it would work well i cant help but say that i would get laughed off the table with an airfix model.... will have to use a fw model but which works well?im looking for the best anti air model with the ability to kill other stuff as well if i come against no flyers. Also AA mounts might be well and good but i think that planes have that "must kill factor" so will take some heat off my csm - even in apoc you dont get that many!

Roguebaron
15-06-2008, 15:11
Any true chaos player should have at least one hellblade, or more. I have 2 two escort my helltalon, that makes people nervous. Helblades are interceptors and they have 2 twin linked autocannons, 4 strength 7 shots with rerolls! a pair can deal with any aircraft and make short work of light tanks. Even baneblades have to worry a bit with a lower rear armor. Command infantry units light up nicely to, you may not get the instant death on a commander, but you'll wittle down support troops quickly, leaving him open to attacks from other supporting units. Painted in some cool slaneesh colours, how could you go wrong?

Royal Tiger
15-06-2008, 18:01
tho i can see how it would work well i cant help but say that i would get laughed off the table with an airfix model....
then your gaming group is obviously filled with small minded ignorant jerks:eyebrows:


plus there are THOUSANDS of companies, not just Airfix

mjayc50
15-06-2008, 20:51
no, just perfectionists the lot of em - you should come down to oxford and bring you airplanes and try to play with them. you will be ok to use them defo but you would get a good mocking! makes me think of this... http://galleria.sotavasara.net/kuva/1284/ that would probably be my kinda conversion expertise...

downundercadet07
16-06-2008, 06:03
Any true chaos player should have at least one hellblade, or more. I have 2 two escort my helltalon, that makes people nervous. Helblades are interceptors and they have 2 twin linked autocannons, 4 strength 7 shots with rerolls! a pair can deal with any aircraft and make short work of light tanks. Even baneblades have to worry a bit with a lower rear armor. Command infantry units light up nicely to, you may not get the instant death on a commander, but you'll wittle down support troops quickly, leaving him open to attacks from other supporting units. Painted in some cool slaneesh colours, how could you go wrong?


I believe flyers automatically hit side armor, not rear armor, in apocalypse. It is a foolish rule, but I think that is RAW on the matter.

Royal Tiger
16-06-2008, 11:42
no, just perfectionists the lot of em - you should come down to oxford and bring you airplanes and try to play with them. you will be ok to use them defo but you would get a good mocking!
as I said, jerks:rolleyes:

getting mocked for using your imagination just because there a bunch of perfectionist arses is pathetic

Roguebaron
16-06-2008, 23:19
yup, side armor, sorry my error, the hellblade also isn't an inteceptor, but both guns are an anti aircraft mount so that's almost as good. You can also give them demonic possession which lets them ignore stuned and shaken results, they are already bs 3 so no loss there for chaos players.

cailus
17-06-2008, 00:46
Hellbalde or Helltalon or Chaos-ified Thunderbolts and Lightnings.

I would expect any 20th/21st century aircraft to be heavily converted to fit into the 40K universe - not just guns but fuselage, engines, wings etc. I would not want a game involving stock standard real aircraft models (or tanks or whatever).

Royal Tiger
17-06-2008, 01:31
Hellbalde or Helltalon or Chaos-ified Thunderbolts and Lightnings.

I would expect any 20th/21st century aircraft to be heavily converted to fit into the 40K universe - not just guns but fuselage, engines, wings etc. I would not want a game involving stock standard real aircraft models (or tanks or whatever).
do you mean you would expect yours to be heavily converted, or your opponents?, cus expecting your opponent to heavily convert there model just to make you happy, is a little elitist

Cirenivel
17-06-2008, 08:36
do you mean you would expect yours to be heavily converted, or your opponents?, cus expecting your opponent to heavily convert there model just to make you happy, is a little elitist

I don't think so. Just using 'real-life' aircrafts right out of the shelf sound a bit too much like proxying to me (not that there's anything wrong with it a couple of times ;))

I would expect my oponent to, at least, make an effort for the model to 'fit in' on the battlefield, or else we could just be using chesspieces instead of models :rolleyes:

mjayc50
17-06-2008, 20:33
exactly. id be mocked if i used em but id mock n e who tried. unless they looked as good if not better than the real thing. its all about suspension of disbelief and if i see some kind of luftwaffe ww2 aircraft im gonna laugh at you (or any other model b4 u say)

Royal Tiger
17-06-2008, 21:44
exactly. id be mocked if i used em but id mock n e who tried. unless they looked as good if not better than the real thing. its all about suspension of disbelief and if i see some kind of luftwaffe ww2 aircraft im gonna laugh at you (or any other model b4 u say)
well don't expect to make any friends with an attitude like that, plus some of us can't afford Forge World models, or think they and Games Workshopss aircraft and tanks look pathetic

oh and pick up a dictionary, "n e" and "b4 u" are not words, and the Forum rules clearly state there case on the use of such things

Cirenivel
17-06-2008, 21:52
well don't expect to make any friends with an attitude like that, plus some of us can't afford Forge World models, or think they and Games Workshopss aircraft and tanks look pathetic


I don't think that he said that you couldn't use them, only backing up what I said about making an effort to make it look like it fits in on the battlefield.
And what's the problem with forgeworld? Just build it yourself, but make sure that it looks like something that might look plausible.

mjayc50
17-06-2008, 22:22
Id love it if i could make models but im not that blessed! as i said b4 (yes before i know...) it would need alot of converting. i appreciate people not having the cash but i've seen some dodgy conversions in my time. if you can do it royal tiger go nuts, knock yourself out is what we are saying. Chill doood! all my comments are tongue in cheek no need to get medieval on my a$$!

Royal Tiger
17-06-2008, 22:22
And what's the problem with forgeworld?
1: there expensive
2: the majority of the larger more detailed models are warped and filled with holes

Just build it yourself, but make sure that it looks like something that might look plausible.
not everyone is an expert with Plasticard able to build entire jets with ease

chaos0xomega
17-06-2008, 23:27
No, take a 1/35 or 1/48 scale model of a REAL WORLD vehicle, and then just modify it as you see fit with the proper weaponry. It's really not much of an issue. GW has based EVERYTHING off of real-world designs (and in my opinion has done a pretty bad job at it), so IMO this would just be getting back to the roots. Just make sure there aren't any propellers or out of scale bits on the things, and that the proper symbols are displayed alongside the correct weaponry.