PDA

View Full Version : How cud i use this army tactically. VC (please post a reply!)



o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
14-06-2008, 22:50
After failing to get much response on the armylist section I have decided to ost this on the tactics bit as I wud like to ask people if: 1: they cud point out serious flaws in the way this list wotks 2: give me any tips on the list and 3: give me all the tactical advice possible ( i'm used to playing with ogres so am not accustomed to rank and file units) Thnx to any one who replies.

Vampire lord 205
abyssal terror 135
Dread lance 60
Red fury 50
Flayed hauberk 25 475

vampire 100 ( behind Zombies & ghouls)
helm of comandment 30
135

Vampire 100 (In ghoul unit)
dark acolyte 25
summon ghouls 25
black periapt 15 165

20 zombies 80

20 zombies 80

13 crypt ghouls 104

13 crypt ghouls 104

corpse cart 75
bale fire 25 100

copse cart 75
bale fire 25 100

5 dire wolves 40

4 blood knights 220
full command 50
banner of blood keep 75 345

5 cairn wraiths 250
tomb banshee 25 275

( note: I wud like as many replies as possible, so if u view this, don't be 2 shy to put down a suggestion, u never know, it cud be the best suggestion yet!)

melgorth
14-06-2008, 23:18
Hi it seems like a good list but i think you will need more magic and it would be better to raise zombies rather then to take them as core a IMO. You could put the helm vampire as a second level wizard to give you more magic potential and swap the zombies for another unit of ghouls and skeletons.

Belerophon709
14-06-2008, 23:21
Don't really have alot of time to write out what would have been my full commentary, but I'll just mention something that pops right out at me: Your Lord.

There are three flying mounts available to you as a vampire player: Zombie Dragon, Abyssal Terror and the Hellsteed.
The first two are large targets, so you can see and charge over units and such - and be shot and/or charged in return. Of these two, Zombie Dragon is the way to go, for two reasons: it's harder to kill in general and is more of a nuisance in CC (better stats and cloud of flies). Sure the AT is cheaper, but it's not a great choice, so it should be cheap.

The Hellsteed is not a large target, so you won't have the same LOS options as with the other two, but you do get added protection, in that you can hide behind other units and so on. Note that the Hellsteed is also a cavalry mount, which means that it can't be targeted/killed seperately. This is huge bonus over the other two mounts for two reasons:
It won't suddenly go *POOF* beneath your lord, leaving him stranded, and it also begs for the vampire player to slap on the Wristbands of Black Gold for "3+ ward vs. all your ranged hittyness for the entire model".

Just a little something to think about.

huitzilopochtli
14-06-2008, 23:26
hmmm..... ok, while i have some vampire counts, i'm better at playing against them than with them, so forgive me if this advice isn't great.

from what i can see your biggest weakness is a lack of troops. with 40 zombies you should be able to field a huge army, but you only have 9 units, two of which are corpse carts and as such don't count for much. have you got any other models to use or are you simply bent on using this list?

if you are going to use this army i'd try putting your core units in the middle of the field, with the two zombie units beside each other and the two ghouls beside each other next to them. then put all your heavy units on the ghoul flank and charge up that flank, using the zombies to simply slow down the enemies on the other flank. your commanding helm vampire will help to slow the enemies advance on that side long enough (hopefully) for everything else to sweep across the table and kill everything else.

hope this helps. i'm interested to see what other advice you're given.

Conkers
15-06-2008, 01:05
you have 2 units and a lord that will do damage. the blood knights are so small that after 1-2 turns of empire/dwarf shooting, they will be dead or severely crippled. any magic missile thrown at your wraiths will kill that unit.

Your lord is just waiting for a cannonball to obliterate him, thats almost an auto lose for you, considering he is almost 25 % of your points. no lvl 3 lord?



if you lose 2 out of 3 of your hammers, you will lose.

my suggestions:

1.) if you plan on running your lord as a CC beast use this setup
Infinite hatred
Red fury
Dread knight
Walach's
and maybe crimson gem to prevent a KB wiping him out
lvl 3
50 points saved and now your lord is much more harder to kill
425

2.) Drop the wraiths, all the games I've played some hero ripps them apart, or they get a magic missile cast on them after I run out of DD. You could almost buy a unit of grave guard.

3.) dark acolyte is 30 points while summon ghouls is 15 you little vampire costs 5 points less

4.) WS 6 zombies will still kill nothing, and they will only suffer something 11% less casualties. I'd raise them not buy them.

5.) If you're doing as a ghoul list, why not take ghoul kin?

6.) Blood knights kill things, but i honestly think that they will get shot, or they will get baited into 100 point unit that flees.

these are off the top of my head, if you want deeper comments, just ask

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
15-06-2008, 05:22
you have 2 units and a lord that will do damage. the blood knights are so small that after 1-2 turns of empire/dwarf shooting, they will be dead or severely crippled. any magic missile thrown at your wraiths will kill that unit.

Your lord is just waiting for a cannonball to obliterate him, thats almost an auto lose for you, considering he is almost 25 % of your points. no lvl 3 lord?



if you lose 2 out of 3 of your hammers, you will lose.

my suggestions:

1.) if you plan on running your lord as a CC beast use this setup
Infinite hatred
Red fury
Dread knight
Walach's
and maybe crimson gem to prevent a KB wiping him out
lvl 3
50 points saved and now your lord is much more harder to kill
425

2.) Drop the wraiths, all the games I've played some hero ripps them apart, or they get a magic missile cast on them after I run out of DD. You could almost buy a unit of grave guard.

3.) dark acolyte is 30 points while summon ghouls is 15 you little vampire costs 5 points less

4.) WS 6 zombies will still kill nothing, and they will only suffer something 11% less casualties. I'd raise them not buy them.

5.) If you're doing as a ghoul list, why not take ghoul kin?

6.) Blood knights kill things, but i honestly think that they will get shot, or they will get baited into 100 point unit that flees.

these are off the top of my head, if you want deeper comments, just ask

The whole point of the dire wolves is to protect the blood knights, for a turn or two at shooting. The Ws 6 is actually going to be used on the Zombies AND the ghouls ( combined with always strike firstwith the corpse carts) I suppose my vamp lord is a bit vulnerable, but the point in the abbysal terror is to allow him to negate ranks and I didn't have enough points for a dragon.
I might think about re-equiping him though.
In relation to making the other wizard level two, I don't have enuf points for that ( although after this list adds up I have 15 spare) so how many point is apower stone? My book went missing last night, I'm an unorganized person:rolleyes: Also, if crimson jm prevents my lord dieing from a cannon ball, I could just equip that...
I was also thinking of just putting my vampire lord on a night mare in the same unit as the blood knights and giving him blood drinker so that way I can restore losses to the unit in combat.

Conkers
16-06-2008, 05:40
You have a big issue using 5 dire wolves as a screen for blood knights, I could just charge them, kill all the dogs, then over run into your blood knights. This issue has been brought up before, there was a whole discussion on it here:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134336

power stones are 20 points.

The gem only stops a cannon once, and it will be useless against jezzels organ guns, hell-blasters, et cetera. Stuffing him in a unit should help quite a bit. 2+ 4+ (if if i remember right the gem is a 2+ for the first wound if you fail all those.)

I'm not too hot on blood drinker in blood knights, it is unlikely that your knights will die in combat, because, unless the unit is stubborn/unbreakable, they are rolling for snake eyes. unless you get charged.

thekiwi
20-06-2008, 02:47
Hey - I'm new and can't start a new thread, so I thought I'd ask a VC-related question here.

I've got an idea for a theme army, built around a kind of vampire College - a bunch of vampires of different races who all live together in the middle of nowhere, teaching students to be good necromancers and such. I want to use a few different models for the characters; instead of the standard VC models, I was thinking of a bretonnian damsel on foot for my lord (primarily a caster), a chaos champion for a foot vamp, a dark elf assassin for my scouting-and-terror vamp, and perhaps a Dragon Prince for my mounted vamp. The rest of the army would be a ton of ghouls, a unit of black knights, and a varghulf.

So, the first question is, what models should I use for the black knights and ghouls? I like the idea of painting another race's models to look undead, but I'm not sure which ones. I've got five units of ghouls in my army list, so I could mix them around a little. Also, what would be a good way to paint them so that they look undead? Painting is not at all one of my strengths... For the black knights, there are a lot of sweet mounted models around, so it just depends on which one I choose for the vampire.

Second is a rules question. If I put a necromancer on a corpse cart in a unit of ghouls, and one of my vamps has the ghoulkin ability, is he able to move as well? That'd be so badass.

kroq'gar
20-06-2008, 03:16
@ guy above Empire or bretonnian knights for the blackknights. Paint their army either ethreal bluey grey, or a beaten coppor. Give them all enclosed helms so they resemble animmated armour.

Not sure how 'good' a chaos champ would be as a vamp (and the fact he wont fit on the correct base size). I suggest an empire noble.

@ the thread topic.

Boost the vampire with the helm of commandment magically to the eyeballs. As he will not be in combat, utalise him to summon.

Windings of a snake
05-07-2008, 19:26
After failing to get much response on the armylist section I have decided to ost this on the tactics bit as I wud like to ask people if: 1: they cud point out serious flaws in the way this list wotks 2: give me any tips on the list and 3: give me all the tactical advice possible ( i'm used to playing with ogres so am not accustomed to rank and file units) Thnx to any one who replies.

Vampire lord 205
abyssal terror 135
Dread lance 60
Red fury 50
Flayed hauberk 25 475

This one is very nice, add infinite hatred and maybe beguile plus wristbands of black gold.

vampire 100 ( behind Zombies & ghouls)
helm of comandment 30
135

add ghoulkin and exchange all zombies for ghouls. Give the periapt to this vampire and give to him summon ghouls

Vampire 100 (In ghoul unit)
dark acolyte 25
summon ghouls 25
black periapt 15 165

Try dark acolyte at 30 points and add either more magic abilities or damage output.

20 zombies 80

20 zombies 80

13 crypt ghouls 104

13 crypt ghouls 104

corpse cart 75
bale fire 25 100

copse cart 75
bale fire 25 100

5 dire wolves 40

4 blood knights 220
full command 50
banner of blood keep 75 345

Remove the kastellan and musician in favor of a 5th knight

5 cairn wraiths 250
tomb banshee 25 275

Try minimum size incl. banshee and shift additional points into a necromancer if possible

Grey Seer Skretch
07-07-2008, 12:55
Ok, I've noticed that with a lot of 'tactics' threads, people constantly suggest changes to your army list, which personally I don't think is enormously helpful as A.) this gets into 'ideal-list-zen-gaming' which you may not have the models for, and B) its really not what you've asked for, as you have already written up a list that your happy with.

SO

Based on the above, my advice to you using the list as written is as follows.

1.) The Vampire Lord will hit pretty hard, but you should make sure that he doesnt go it alone, as he'll lose painfully on combat rez and fall over against anything with a few ranks and a standard. Use him to support charges by either the wraiths or the blood knights.
2.) As your seriously lacking in big solid ranked up units, can we assume that you intend to boost those ghoul units as you go using summon ghouls? I think my general advice with al the infantry units you've got there would be to use IoN to boost the size of the zombies and ghouls as quick as you can, as its quite scary how fast units can crumble once they start to go (bear in mind you take a bunch of casualties then lose a bunch more AS WELL due to combat res). I would'nt be at all surprised against something like charging knights or heavy infantry to see 20 zombies all disappear in a single turn, which b*ggers their usefulness as tarpit units, which is really their only purpose.
3.) I actually quite like the fact that by partnering the Blood Knights with the Dire Wolves, your facilitating the wolves marching. However, I think rather than use the wolves to try to screen the knights, use them as support to keep the knights' flanks free.

Other than that, good luck sir!

Malagant
07-07-2008, 15:41
I like the Lord concept, but the Dreadlance is expensive (and cheesy!). He'd likely be nearly as effective with Infinite Hatred, and adding Beguile will help you get wounds and make the most of Red Fury...this turns him in to a pretty effective assassin-type as well as able to do some active CR to R&F. With the point saved from the Dreadlance, the Crown of the Damned or Wristbands could be added for extra protection (a 2+ AS sounds nice until you're hit by something strong or that allows no saves!). Then maybe Balefire Spike so he gets the nice +2S on the charge, and I think he still has points for more toys (Gem, Power Stone, Dispel Scroll, etc.). As others said, static CR can kill him, so make sure you combine charges with other units. Be very cautious of getting him involved in the same fight with the Zombies...your enemy will kill zombies and you'll lose CR by a ton!

You have two vampire thralls, and from your description you plan on using one of them behind the lines and another with the ghouls...so a casty vamp and a fighty vamp? I'm of the opinion that vampires will work best when specialized, so choose gear and powers for the task.

Your casty vampire would probably be best served by Mastery of the Black Arts instead of Dark Acolyte...he's probably going to be casting IoN most of the time anyway, so let him have the most dice he can. By the math, he'll get more successful casts of IoN on 3 dice than with 2 at +1 (3 dice cast on 4 = 1.5; 2 dice cast on 3 = 1.33), although he won't be able to boost them above initial size.

Your fighty vampire could be re-tooled to focus on fighting if you wanted, or less specialized can work too.

I know you've not asked for an evaluation of the list, but tactics for using the list...but I can't help but say what others have said...why buy zombies when you can summon them? You could drop the 40 zombies for 20 ghouls, and make three decent sized ghoul units.

But with what you have, I'd remember to not get your zombies in a fight alongside your other units...you'll lose CR by a ton and lose wounds on all units involved....not pleasant to lose a vampire lord because your zombies lost 10 wounds!

If you're using the wolves to screen the Blood Knights from ranged fire, why do you need to spend 75 points on that banner? Maybe drop that banner for the hatred banner? Or the double US banner? Or get the 5th knight!

I don't like the number of Wraiths either...you have 4 wraiths + banshee. That's 12 attacks at ws3 S5, so you're only looking at 3-4 wounds...you'll probably still lose combats. I think Wraiths either need to go big or stay home...drop to 2 wraiths + banshee, or get 6-7 plus banshee. Can free up a lot of points by dropping a wraith or two! But it is what it is, so of course keep the out of LOS of enemy wizards, away from enemy heroes, and make the most of the Banshee by trying to target heavily armored units (I killed 4 Grail Knights with mine last game!).

Keep the zombies out of multi-combats, and throw tons of IoN at them to keep the enemy tied up. These guys are going to either die quickly, or be an enormous PD drain for you.

The ghouls aren't usually strong enough to win combats on their own, and many of your dice will be spent keeping your zombies alive, so strive to set up supporting flank/rear charges for the ghouls...with your Lord, your Knights, and your Wraiths, this shouldn't be too hard.

I like the two balefire carts, remember they'll likely attract a lot of ranged attention (bolt throwers, cannons, wizards, etc.). With your list, you have only a handful of power dice (7 pd + 2 bound), and you've got core units that require a lot of IoN to keep them kicking...careful use of Miasma will be needed to drain enemy DD to allow you to heal the units that need healing.

The Wolves can be used to screen the Knights, then run down enemy war machines or guard a flank. Take advantage of their Fast Cavalry to line them up so that if they're charged and crushed, the enemies will be left facing a direction he doesn't want to be.

Hope your games go well! Let us know how your list does when you face the enemy!