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Tuch
15-06-2008, 21:12
I couldn't resist. :D

Some friends of mine are interested in starting a 3 way Warband campaign. Actually there are 4 of us but one will narrate a plot line as well as inject outside monsters and battlefield what-nots during each scenario.

Are there any rules about 3 way battles at all? Does anyone play them regularly enough that they are aware of some common problems that do/could arise?

Any input would be appreciated.

Bortus
15-06-2008, 21:20
Hey that's awesome dude! I persoanlly am not aware of 3 way play rules, I think you have to pretty much go on house rules but expanding the game beyond what it is for fun sake is pretty cool! Lately we've been contemplating going 2 on 2 2000 pt. battles! Can you say "An all day event"!? Ha! Be sure and post what the outcome is.

Drakon
15-06-2008, 22:12
dam was thinking something else here :p.

I have done a (gaming) 3 way and although we didnt finish it due to running out of time. It was real fun. Although it was in 40K i dont know how much would be relevant to fantasy.

We started with one army in some ruins in the middle of the table and two armies attacking from either side of the table. the main objective was to overtake the ruins and the player with the most units in the ruins would win.

Was fun and even though i started in teh building and i lost most of my units in the first 2 rounds.

The only prob i can see is firing into cc when its the other two armies. you would need to sort something out there.

nasty_little_hobbit
15-06-2008, 22:17
Yeah Ive been considering this lately aswel and the biggest problem that ive come up with is the magic system. Do you pool all your dispel dice together or act individually, if a player casts a spell on his own unit does one person dispell it or both try and dispell it. Could anyone with any experience give any advice on not only the magic system but any other problems that have arose before.
Cheers

OldMaster
15-06-2008, 23:33
^ I'd say, let the guy whose unit it is dispell it.

Tuch
15-06-2008, 23:40
For magic I was thinking that the player whose units were being effected could dispel. If it was a spell that didn't effect a specific unit then either could choose to dispel but if one fails the other can not try.

Though one of are players is playing Vampire Counts (1 is Orcs and the other Dwarves) its not like there will be a lot of power and dispel dice. We are limiting to a single Hero and starting with 250 point armies that can grow to 500-750 depending on how things go.

Shooting is not something I though about. I guess it would make since that if army A was in combat with army B, that army C could shoot freely and distribute hits among both opponents?

Oh, and we are starting out with no magic items or character upgrades (Vampire Powers, Runes, etc.) beyond mundane weapons and armor. Everything else will be awarded through play.

Imperial Stormtrooper
16-06-2008, 00:49
for the shooting problem, i would just go with skaven shooting into combat rules. If unit from army A is in combat with army B, then army C would fire into the combat and distribute hits as 1,2,3 goes to army A, and 4,5,6 roll to wound against army B.

the hardest thing about a 3 way is deployment so one man doesnt get double ganged. I would suggest making the playing field a square, and deploy the armies in a triangle, with an objective in the middle that had to be taken. The objective would force everyone to go to the middle, and it would be a mostly fair 3 player free for all. You don't need too much room for a playing board because its warbands right? so a square playing field is fair enough.

Drakon
16-06-2008, 00:55
for the shooting problem, i would just go with skaven shooting into combat rules. If unit from army A is in combat with army B, then army C would fire into the combat and distribute hits as 1,2,3 goes to army A, and 4,5,6 roll to wound against army B.

the hardest thing about a 3 way is deployment so one man doesnt get double ganged. I would suggest making the playing field a square, and deploy the armies in a triangle, with an objective in the middle that had to be taken. The objective would force everyone to go to the middle, and it would be a mostly fair 3 player free for all. You don't need too much room for a playing board because its warbands right? so a square playing field is fair enough.

another way for deployment is to have one player holding an objective in teh midle of the board while the other two come in from the longer ends. The person in teh middle should be given more pts to cater for begin attacked from both ends.

Conotor
16-06-2008, 01:08
3 way is less fun the 1v1, but if u ahve to do it, remember u can win even if your whole army dies. Also, it helpts to have something in the middle that u can "capture", gaining you some bonuses when u r near it.

Lord_Byron
16-06-2008, 02:02
Me and my buddies play a modified version of the battle for maisontal(?) abbey that came out ages ago in white dwarf. That battle was between skaven, brettonia and undead if I recall correctly.

Terrain. Ignore the no terrain within 12" of the center of the table. Players alternate placing terrain normally.

Deployment. The scenario in the white dwarf said for one player to deploy along one short edge of the table, and the other two players to deploy in small rectangles on the long board edges on the opposite side of the table. We found that particular setup to be pretty bad, so we changed it to this...
The player who rolls to deploy first chooses either any of the four corners, or the center of either long board edge. The other players then fill out the traingle based on where the first player chose. You end up with triangular deployment zones that can be tough to fit into it, but so long as you are 24" away from each other it is okay.

Turns. Roll for turns as normal, with the losing two players rolling off again to determine second choice. As per the white dwarf rules, the players roll off EVERY TURN to determine order. The restriction is that no player can move twice in a row. IE no going third in turn one and first in turn two. We've found that this really works and tends to mix things up and mitigate the team up factor of 3 player games.

Combat. All models in base contact with an enemy will fight in every player's close combat phase, regardless of whose turn it is. In three way brawls models can freely distribute their attacks among all enemies in contact.

Combat resolution. First, work out each side's combat score as if the third party wasn't there. then compare the three scores and apply all the relative results at the same time. Solve fleeing and pursuing very carefully, rolling a dice to determine which unit pursues first, because this can often generate new combats between units that were not fighting each other but were in contact with a common enemy. Units that did not win combat may not pursue. These multiple fights will sometimes lead to very messy situations, where the players will need to use their *gasp* common sense.

*edit* examples from the white dwarf.

EXAMPLE ONE: Skaven and undead are fighting front to front, and brettonia is in the flanks of both units.


UNDEAD VS SKAVEN: The skaven kill three skeleton, claim three ranks, one banner, and higher unit strength. The undead kill one skaven and claim three ranks and one banner. The skaven win by 3.

BRETTONIA VS UNDEAD: The brettonians kill three skeletons, claim two ranks, one banner, flank attack and higher unit strength. The undead claim zero ranks (charged in the flank) one banner, and no wounds. Brettonia wins by 7.

BRETTONIA VS SKAVEN: The brettonians kill two skaven, claim two ranks, one banner, flank attack, and and a higher unit strength. The skaven kill one brettonian and claim zero ranks (charged in the flank) and one banner. Brettonia wins by five.

OVERALL RESULTS: The undead lose 10 extra skeletons (seven against brettonia and three against the skaven) The skaven take a break test on -5, fail it, and run. Brettonia cannot pursue because the are locked in combat with the undead.

EXAMPLE TWO: (modded for 7th edition) Brettonia is locked with undead and skaven charges brettonia in the flank. (note that skaven could have charged both enemy units but didn't)

BRETTONIA VS SKAVEN: The skaven kill three brettonians and claim 3 ranks, one banner, flank attack and higher unit strength. Brettonia kills one skaven and claims one banner. Skaven win by 7.

BRETTONIA VS UNDEAD: The brettonians kill three skeletons, and claim two ranks and one banner. The undead kill no brettonians, and claim three ranks, one banner and a higher unit strength. The brettonians win by 1.

SKAVEN VS UNDEAD: No fighting occurs.

OVERALL RESULT: The undead lose one extra skeleton (against brettonia) and stay in place. The brettonians take a break test on -7 (against skaven) and fail. They run and the skaven pursue them. The undead cannot pursue them because the did not win combat.

*

Shooting. When shooting at two opposing enemy units engaged in combat, templates and cannons work as normal. Other types of shooting are randomized 1,2,3 vs player A, 4,5,6 vs player B.

Magic. Spells targeting one specific player can only be dispelled by that player. Non-targeted spells can be dispelled from either side. Both dispelling players gather all their dice in their left hand, and secretly transfer the amount of dice they wish to use to dispel to their right hand (or dispel scroll written on a piece of paper) , then both dispellers reveal their 'bids' simultaneously. The player who bids highest rolls to dispel. Dispel scrolls always beat dice. In the case of a tie, roll off and the winner gets to choose who rolls. To balance this effect all players generate 1 less dispel die than normal.

Fighting for a central objective doesn't work as well as you think it would. We play for victory points as normal, with the condition that the last player to put damage on a unit gets the victory points for it being destroyed or under half. The scenario advocates sharing all victory points if both sides have damaged a unit. We found that it lead to too many 3-way ties. However, units that destroy themselves share their victory points evenly between opposing players. IE a catapult misfire. The game lasts eight turns.

If I head out to the garage later tonight I'll try to dig up that white dwarf and let you guys know which issue.

*Edit* The scenario is the Battle of La Maisontaal abbey, in U.S. white dwarf 266, march 2002.

Lotho
16-06-2008, 08:57
Thanks Lord_Byron theres some great tips in there.

I played a 3way warbands with my mates the other week, my o&g vs dwarves vs bretonnia it was good fun.

For spells we did, only the player who is a target of the spell may dispell it. Seems to work well and is fair.

We didnt have any CC issues because It was just my orcs and the brets fighting over the ruins (dwarves were too slow), I ended up losing all my units then the dwarves strolled in and finished off whatever brets were left, I was highly amused.

Give it a go and make up house rules that you see fit.

Tuch
16-06-2008, 13:18
Well that should clear up most issues Lord Byron thanx.

If all goes according to plan we will begin this campaign in about 1 months time. At least that gives us time to have a solid list of House Rules on how we are going to do it, and it seems we will have a good start.

Thanx for everyone's help.