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View Full Version : Who come out better in 5th Ed



donuter
16-06-2008, 10:36
i was wonderring which force came out better in 5th Ed, Tau or Tyranids?

Danny Internet
16-06-2008, 15:06
Well, Tau get a 4+ cover save on all major vehicles for a 5pt upgrade. And markerlights are far more useful now that jetpack infantry move and fire them. But no more Fish of Fury armies though because skimmers block line of sight in 5th. Area terrain not blocking line of sight is going to make Crisis suits much more vulnerable.

Tyranids get to Run now, however most of their CC units are already quick, and carnifexes will still suck in assault now that they can actually get there. Genestealers are a lot less useful with the rending nerf. Glancing hits cannot destroy vehicles anymore, which slightly tones down Tyranid firepower. Not being able to consolidate into new combats hurts CC armies.

Personally I think Tyranids get slightly worse while Tau get slightly better, so Tau comes out ahead.

leo_neil316
16-06-2008, 15:15
Without number gives nids some cool tricks in the two objective taking scenarios, gaunts move fast and atleast one objective is gonna be in your deploymen (one scenario) and probally another couple near the midline (the other scenario).

which means you can Send gaunts on suicide runs right at the objectives closer to the enemy deployments without worrying about leaving troops behind to hold ones in/near yours. Dead gaunt squads comming back on can do that for you.

ReveredChaplainDrake
16-06-2008, 20:19
The Tau really gain a lot, but look at where they are coming from. They really weren't that good in 4th edition unless you used a judicious amount of Markerlights. (Which is how you were supposed to play them all along, wasn't it?) The Tyranids take nerfs and buffs here and there, but they were one of the game's super-powers already. So the Tyranids are already biased to come out of it better. The question is whether the Tau's advantages are good enough, and when you have people with 83-Genestealer armies crawling off your flanks ('Stealer nerf, pfft... :rolleyes:), I think the answer is a big no.

Buckero0
16-06-2008, 21:05
well, let's spread the question a bit. Who out of all the armies got better and which ones suffered due to the new ruleset? I know marines are still a bit out of the loop until they get their new codex in 2 months, but we have a bit of an idea where their headed with the DA and BA codicies. don't we?

donuter
16-06-2008, 22:18
my mate was wondering how orks do as well compared to nids and tau

ReveredChaplainDrake
17-06-2008, 00:59
Orks are going to be a vicious army because, with running combined with WAAAAGH!, you can roll your Run without hesitation and then call your WAAAAGH! when it looks like you're in good range. The problem is that you usually need about 120 Boyz at a minimum to make this work, which eats up a lot of time and a lot of green (sorry, bad pun). But Trukks? Forget it. Their lack of entanglement but use of damage rolls make Trukks a gross liability to your Boy line.

And always, always use 2x Mekboyz for 5+ cover on your Grots. And then, always, always use Grots as a 4+ cover for your Boyz.

Jwolf
17-06-2008, 01:42
Shooting gets a huge buff from TLOS in 5th, which will help deal with Nidzilla a lot. The Infiltration and Scout USRs and the flanking rules are huge improvements for scuttling and infiltrating assault units, but aren't as reliable as TLOS. Add to that the no consolidating into new units and my experience is that shooting armies get overall more improvement than assault armies, if both are played well.

Mike KK
19-06-2008, 09:51
well for orks dreads and killa kans just became awesome with a KFF near: 4+ cover against everything

khornatedaemon
19-06-2008, 20:24
how do carnifex's suck when they get into hth? Especially with the powerfist nerf? CC 'fexs get a huge buff with run and less powerfist attacks. Also with counter attack moves tail weapons are going to be usefull. D3 extra str5 hits, yes pls.

Rending nerf can be overcome with feeder tendrils. More hits = more rends. WS6 with re-rolls will still cause a lot of rends. Warriors are going to have to take the WS upgrade now. A broodlord with tendrils leading a squad of acid maw 'stealers are going to rape face, if they can get there.

zealousheretic
19-06-2008, 20:53
Actually the specific rule for tail weapons is that you must have X models in base contact at the beginning of the assault phase. There is no way to get tail weapon attacks during the first round of close combat.

It's a common misconception, primarily because at present nobody bothers with tail weapons. They still may not be that great, if assaults are as quick and brutal as I've heard, the 'fex may never find itself in the kind of protracted slugging match tail weapons are designed for.

CC 'fexes might finally be a good idea in 5th. We'll see, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Feeder Tendrils are going to be standard kit for 'stealers, methinks. It doesn't fully compensate for the nerf but it does help bring their expected lethality closer to where it was.

khornatedaemon
19-06-2008, 22:46
Actually the specific rule for tail weapons is that you must have X models in base contact at the beginning of the assault phase. There is no way to get tail weapon attacks during the first round of close combat.

It's a common misconception, primarily because at present nobody bothers with tail weapons. They still may not be that great, if assaults are as quick and brutal as I've heard, the 'fex may never find itself in the kind of protracted slugging match tail weapons are designed for.

CC 'fexes might finally be a good idea in 5th. We'll see, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Feeder Tendrils are going to be standard kit for 'stealers, methinks. It doesn't fully compensate for the nerf but it does help bring their expected lethality closer to where it was.

hmm it is worded that way. That would make them pretty useless all around. I think i'm gonna have to make a query about that. Also I've been wondering if the tail weapons get confered the MC bonus. It doesnt say it doesnt like the bio plasma entry does. It would make the scythe tail helpfull against large squads.

Its a stretch but if you can get a brood of acid maw stealers near a tendril model they actually become more effective than last edition. hence the tendril broodlord with the acid maw stealer retinue.

k-ruppt
20-06-2008, 06:18
dont forget that meat shields will be way more helpful now in protecting your warriors and raveners, which previously whad problems staying alive long enough to cause tons of damage. maybe winged warriors will actually be worth taking as well

xXTerminatorXx
20-06-2008, 13:02
The Nid player in my group has always played cc fexes, and they are usually in the 250+ pts range...and they just tear through whatever they hit, and that was when PF's had the extra attack. Now that they can run, 2 of them running together with his running tyrant (since wings are no longer needed) just crush anything they hit (including an Ork Nob Biker squad of death). Running warriors screened by rippers and/or some spinegants ensures they make it to cc, and the 'stealer horde coming in from the flanks where you can't shoot at them cuz they are off the table is just disgusting. It's bad enough that his hormagaunts now have an effective 4+ save...add in everything else and the nids don't need their shooting anymore. It was always against their fluff anyway, IMO.

shabbadoo
20-06-2008, 13:09
Nids get run, but lose consolidation into new untis, and Tau+ rapid fire leads to lots of dead Nids'. Tough to say who gained more out of this one.

khornatedaemon
20-06-2008, 13:53
Nids get run, but lose consolidation into new untis, and Tau+ rapid fire leads to lots of dead Nids'. Tough to say who gained more out of this one.

all that means is we have to hit multiple units at once. We have to plan out our attack more.

balachi
20-06-2008, 13:59
The biggest hit we've seen to tyranids in 5th edition so far is that monstrous creatures don't get cover saves from area terrain and have to be 50% covered to get a cover save. Hence they can't lurk in woods and get that cover save vs high ap hits. The nidzilla lists took a hit off it. On the other hand, if the nid player onions up and has his termagaunts in the first wave with the hormagaunts behind them, the hormagaunts get a 4+ cover save when in the open. Big boost to them.

Freakiq
20-06-2008, 14:13
My World Eaters army...

Likes:

* More attacks in close combat due to counter charge.

* More hits with blast weapons (Vindicator, Defiler and Plasma Cannon Dread)

* Tougher transports and tanks due to new penetration table.

* Run allows my units to close in with the enemy much faster.

* Less powerfist attacks mean less trouble for my Daemon prince.

Dislikes:

* No more sweeping into enemy units.

Unsure:

* True LOS.


Overall I'm liking the new changes and they'll probably mean more tanks (with large blast weapons), a landraider transport (more durable now) and a few dreadnoughts to allow me to shoot down enemy units who would have fired at any of my berzerker squads overrunning into the open.